My daughter wants a corn snake :)

[gbeauvin]

So, it's time for me to research! I've been doing some reading on this site (hat-tip to the good people at dendroboard.com for referring me here), and have some questions, or maybe just wanting to confirm the conclusions I'm drawing.

1 - corn snake, good choice for a 9 year old? "yes" is the conclusion I've drawn .

2 - size of enclosure : 20L seems to be common, but I tend to lend towards "understocked" aquaria, and applying that tendancy here makes me want to use a 40br instead. Will this be a problem?

3 - type of enclosure : Critter Cage seems to be a no-brainer, but with the $1/gal sale at petco, I start wondering about getting a 40br tank, and either getting a screen lid for it, or making something myself.

One thread I read indicated that a front-opening enclosure might make the snake feel less threatened by hands than a top opening one, has anyone done a dart-frog style conversion of a top opening aquarium into a front opening viv? with a 40br horizontal conversion, the footprint goes from 36x18 to 36x16, but would it be worth it to open from the front instead of the top? Might make cleaning more difficult, but I don't even know what cleaning is required in a snake tank (that's coming, probably number 4).

4 - cleaning! It seems to vary with substrate type, I get the impression that with towels you change them frequently, same deal with newspaper? People talked about spot-cleaning aspen, with a complete change about once a month? Other folks had dirt bottomed vivs and I have no idea what or when you do with that .

A specific question -- is it reasonable to add "permanent" features to the viv, like a cork-bark shelf, or will they get soiled and be difficult to clean?

5 - handling. I get the impression that when bringing a new snake home, one ought to leave it in the viv undisturbed for at least a week, possibly up to several feedings? What I haven't seen is how often is good to handle a young snake after the initial acclimitization (mispelled, whatever) period is over. This will be her only snake until she's older and has proven sufficiently responsible, so I'm not worried about racks full of snakes yet .

6 - feeding. Is there a feeding FAQ i haven't seen yet? I read about the mousicle needing to be at the "right temperature", but haven't seen what that temperature is or how to achieve it. I thought I read something about putting the young snake and the dead (heated?) mouse in something like a 1quart tub and leaving it overnight... it sounds odd to me but i've never kept a snake, so what do I know? .

7 - substrate : Everyone uses aspen, so I figure that's a good starting place for the newbie .

8 - heating : I've got some more research to do here. It sounds like this is going to be more expensive than everything else put together . I was hoping to keep the whole setup under $200, which seemed very doable until I started pricing thermostats. Are the cheaper thermo units unreliable, or are they just cheaper due to their on/off nature? This guy here :

http://beanfarm.com/product_info.php?cPath=1238&products_id=5685

is alot cheaper than the herpstat unit, but is it worth the cardboard box it's shipped in?

I'm not setting up a snake room, this is my daughter's snake and until she starts making her own money it will likely be her only snake 8). I just want to make sure she gets started right, and the snake is treated well.

-GB (who between aquaria, a budding interest in dart frogs, RC sailplanes/boats and historical recreation really needs to quit picking up pets and hobbies)

 

[Nanci]

Here's a link to my caresheet, which has pics of everything!

So, it's time for me to research! I've been doing some reading on this site (hat-tip to the good people at dendroboard.com for referring me here), and have some questions, or maybe just wanting to confirm the conclusions I'm drawing.

1 - corn snake, good choice for a 9 year old? "yes" is the conclusion I've drawn .

Perfect.

2 - size of enclosure : 20L seems to be common, but I tend to lend towards "understocked" aquaria, and applying that tendancy here makes me want to use a 40br instead. Will this be a problem?

If you start with an adult or big yearling, a 40br would be spacious. It would be a little much for a baby. You can make a 20L have enough cover for a baby. You _might_ want to go with a 20L, because you can buy commercial stands that will hold _two_ 20Ls, in case your daughter wants to expand! 20Ls are industry standard and a normal, sedentary adult will do just fine in one.

3 - type of enclosure : Critter Cage seems to be a no-brainer, but with the $1/gal sale at petco, I start wondering about getting a 40br tank, and either getting a screen lid for it, or making something myself.

The Critter Cage, with the sliding locking lid, is nearly fool-and escape-proof. Money well-spent.

One thread I read indicated that a front-opening enclosure might make the snake feel less threatened by hands than a top opening one, has anyone done a dart-frog style conversion of a top opening aquarium into a front opening viv? with a 40br horizontal conversion, the footprint goes from 36x18 to 36x16, but would it be worth it to open from the front instead of the top? Might make cleaning more difficult, but I don't even know what cleaning is required in a snake tank (that's coming, probably number 4).

Front opening vivs are a PITA.

4 - cleaning! It seems to vary with substrate type, I get the impression that with towels you change them frequently, same deal with newspaper? People talked about spot-cleaning aspen, with a complete change about once a month? Other folks had dirt bottomed vivs and I have no idea what or when you do with that .

A specific question -- is it reasonable to add "permanent" features to the viv, like a cork-bark shelf, or will they get soiled and be difficult to clean?

Aspen is nice- it's easy to spot clean, and perfect for burrowing. You are fine to do a complete change a few times a year. Every month is overkill. Snakes can and will poop on everything, so it is nice to have things you can remove and scrub if you have to.


5 - handling. I get the impression that when bringing a new snake home, one ought to leave it in the viv undisturbed for at least a week, possibly up to several feedings? What I haven't seen is how often is good to handle a young snake after the initial acclimitization (mispelled, whatever) period is over. This will be her only snake until she's older and has proven sufficiently responsible, so I'm not worried about racks full of snakes yet .

The larger the snake, the more sturdy and handleable it will be. An adult can tolerate handling a couple times a day for virtually as long as your child wants to handle, up to an hour or so each time. A baby is going to get tired and burn up calories it should be using for growing. I would only handle a baby about 15 minutes at a time, _maybe_ 30, once a day. And you can't handle for at least 48 hours after feeding. Adults get fed every 7-14 days, depending on how rapidly they are growing and if they are "just pets" or active breeding stock. The average is about every ten days. A baby will need to be fed at least every seven days, and preferably every five. If your daughter wants a snake she can almost instantly mess around with, a lot, I'd highly recommend an adult.

6 - feeding. Is there a feeding FAQ i haven't seen yet? I read about the mousicle needing to be at the "right temperature", but haven't seen what that temperature is or how to achieve it. I thought I read something about putting the young snake and the dead (heated?) mouse in something like a 1quart tub and leaving it overnight... it sounds odd to me but i've never kept a snake, so what do I know? .

There's a feeding plan called The Munson Plan. It suggests a size of mouse, by gram weight, to match a size of snake, by gram weight. A rule of thumb is the mouse should be the same diameter as the snake's widest part, or no more than 1.5 times the snake's widest part.

I recommend feeding in a feeding container. This would be a deli cup for a baby snake, a small rectangular Gladware for a 25-100 gram snake, a Sterilite CD box for a sub-adult and a larger Sterilite for an adult.

The advantages of this method are: you can clean the snake's enclosure and scrub the water bowl while he is feeding. This insures that his viv and bowl get a good cleaning at least as often as you feed him. He won't accidentally ingest substrate. He is in a limited space, and won't wander off and not eat, or worse, accidentally bury the mouse for you to find, rotted, later. You won't know if he lost it or regurgitated it.

To thaw a pink, just put it in a cup of hot water for a minute or so. When you are ready to feed, run it under VERY hot tap water for a few seconds and feed immediately. An adult mouse will take about 5-10 minutes to thaw in hot water. I put it in a bowl in the sink and let hot water drip into the bowl. Then I blot it with paper towel and ruffle up the fur a little. Some people feed soaking wet mice just fine. Other people go through elaborate methods to end up with dry mice. Most snakes don't care what you do. As long as it's hot. Mouse body temp is something like 102F.

7 - substrate : Everyone uses aspen, so I figure that's a good starting place for the newbie .

8 - heating : I've got some more research to do here. It sounds like this is going to be more expensive than everything else put together . I was hoping to keep the whole setup under $200, which seemed very doable until I started pricing thermostats. Are the cheaper thermo units unreliable, or are they just cheaper due to their on/off nature? This guy here :

http://beanfarm.com/product_info.php?cPath=1238&products_id=5685

is alot cheaper than the herpstat unit, but is it worth the cardboard box it's shipped in?

I'm not setting up a snake room, this is my daughter's snake and until she starts making her own money it will likely be her only snake 8). I just want to make sure she gets started right, and the snake is treated well.

That's a decent thermostat. The Herpstat is wonderful. The Alife is an on/off thermostat, and the Herpstat is proportional. The Herpstat provides a more stable temperature, the Alife will allow a small variance. The snake won't care. You also need a UTH roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the size of the bottom of the viv. I slightly prefer ExoTerra Desert UTHs, but ZooMed are nice, too. You can't remove an ExoTerra without ruining it.


-GB (who between aquaria, a budding interest in dart frogs, RC sailplanes/boats and historical recreation really needs to quit picking up pets and hobbies)

There are two books about cornsnakes which are invaluable, by Kathy Love and Don Soderberg- I'd recommend getting both.

 

[Kali]

Nice to see somebody doing thorough research before getting a snake
Nanci seems to have covered it all, the only thing I disagree with is the front opening vivs.
All of my vivs are front opening, and I find it easier to clean. I guess it's just what you're used to. I also have read about things coming from the front being less threatening than from above. It might make a difference, but as so many people have vivs that open on the top and don't seem to have problems with that, I guess the advantage (if any) is small.

It seems to be a difference between Europe and the US I must say. If you buy a viv in a pet store here, they always open in the front (sliding doors). There are people here too of course that use an aquarium, but most have those vivs.

(not talking about racks of course, racks opening in front can't be very convenient )

 

[wstphal]

Heating -- the inexpensive answer, if the temps in your home do not vary a lot from day to day, is to get a plug-in lamp dimmer (about $10 at Lowes or Home Depot) and use that to control the output of the UTH by checking the temperature of the glass on top of the UTH. You want to check the temperature on the glass so that if your snake gets right down on the glass by burrowing (which they do) the temp is not too hot. If they need the warmth they will get down there, so you set that at 84F & you're all set.

That's what I am doing, and it's working fine, I just check every day & adjust dimmers as needed. When I get to the rack stage (and it's coming, oh boy is it ever!) I will get a Herpstat, but these work fine for me for now.

 

[pridecity]

I might get kicked in the butt for this, but...

I wouldn't suggest getting a child a pet, no matter how "mature" they are. Instead, if you wish to make an addition to the family, please do just that. Make the snake a family pet that everyone needs to take care of. I feel very strongly about giving children pets to take care of because I know how I was as a child. I quickly lost interest in the pet and neglected it.

I just wanted to put this out there and also to say: Thanks for doing research before you get a pet! The advice given above by other members is solid. With the front-opening vivs, that's more opinion than requirement, but there have been arguments on both sides, so that should help you in your decision.

Enough of my ranting. Hope you do well with any addition to your family!

 

[Taz Monkey]

I think anyone, and especially someone who took the time to do so much research beforehand, is willing to accept the fact that you can't just hand a 9 year old a snake and be done with it. I'm sure the OP knows that he/she will have to do at least partial caring of the snake.
I have a 20L with a screen lid with clips that keep it in place, which works just fine, and much less expensive than the critter keepers. Although I do have one critter keeper that was on sale at Pet supplies Plus for $45. So keep a look out on those. but my other 2 are just regular glass tanks.
As far as thermostats, I had a cheap one, and I feel MUCH more comfortable with my herpstat. And when my probe went out, Dion sent me one free and it only took 2 days to get to me. So the customer service alone will keep me going back.
Feeding...I have an unknown aged female (I think anyway) hypo who is a great eater. 5 minutes, good to go, back in the tank. I just got 2 hatchlings last Thursday and have never had hatchlings before so I was nervous about the eating process. Put them in the deli cups they shipped in, put the pinkies in, walked away, and 5 minutes later the pinkies were gone. If you're going to be getting your corn from someone reputable (ie. NOT a pet store) then the breeder will be able to tell exactly what the snake has been eating, how they like it, etc. and it shouldn't be a problem. Although honestly, if this is your childs first snake, I don't recommend a hatchling. They're quick and jumpy and very well could jump right out of her hands. A year+ old snake would be great. My Fluffy is great, not jumpy or quick, happy to wrap around my hand and chill. Again, a good breeder, which there are tons on here, can point you in the direction of a good snake they have, either a hold back, or one from last year. Good luck! I only got my first snake on June 24th and now i have 3, so it's quite addicting.

 

[kalena]

My daughter Jennifer is 9, and she really wanted a snake earlier this year, so we got a 2009 amel from a local breeder. I am the primary caregiver, but I must say, Jennifer absolutely ADORES Rio, and is actually more attentive toward him than the dogs! Everyone has pretty much covered the bases as far as care and living quarters... As far as handling goes, I agree with Taz - little ones are a lot more jumpy and delicate. When Jennifer first started handling Rio, we went into the bathtub, closed the drain, sat on the side with our legs inside the tub and I let her hold him. If she (or he) got surprised and slipped out of her hands, he was in the tub and easy to catch. As she got more experienced and both of them became comfortable with one another, I let her start handling him in a small room, and now 8 months later, she pretty much carries him everywhere. It's been a great experience, and all her friends who were once scared to death of snakes now have a new outlook on them.

 

[durrn]

My daughter Jennifer is 9, and she really wanted a snake earlier this year, so we got a 2009 amel from a local breeder. I am the primary caregiver, but I must say, Jennifer absolutely ADORES Rio, and is actually more attentive toward him than the dogs! Everyone has pretty much covered the bases as far as care and living quarters... As far as handling goes, I agree with Taz - little ones are a lot more jumpy and delicate. When Jennifer first started handling Rio, we went into the bathtub, closed the drain, sat on the side with our legs inside the tub and I let her hold him. If she (or he) got surprised and slipped out of her hands, he was in the tub and easy to catch. As she got more experienced and both of them became comfortable with one another, I let her start handling him in a small room, and now 8 months later, she pretty much carries him everywhere. It's been a great experience, and all her friends who were once scared to death of snakes now have a new outlook on them.

Aww. Lovely story. You're a great mommy. I still have yet to convert my friends. Lol.

 

[aquatic mouse]

I use Critter Cages to house all of my snakes. My ball python, ratsnake, and kingsnake are in 40 gallons and the corns are each in 20 gallons. They are expensive...if you buy them new. I purchased all but one of mine on Craigslist. Cheapest one was a 40 I got for $35. Just make sure you clean them out really well.

 

[kalena]

Thanks, durrn. Believe me, we still have friends who are terrified of them, think they're slimey, etc... Rio is in our living room on display, so everyone knows about him, but I have the rest of our collection in a room down the hall. We think it's best that some people (including my MOTHER!) don't know about those!