My Dilema?!?

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Hi Mr. Zukowski,
I am writing to you in regard to a corn that was purchased by me from someone who supposedly purchased him from you. Her name is Julie Coultes. The snake in question is kind of bothering me. When I bought him from her she told me and gave me a tag describing what he is. She told me that he came from one of your opal projects. The tag on him said 2001 1.0 Snow Homo. or Poss. Het Lavender. She sent me pics of him at time of purchase if you care to take a look. (not that a picture does any corn justice) He is not your typical Snow. He is white but he not only has pink blotches surrounded by green but he has this really cool intense pink color that goes down his scales all the way down his sides, along with the typical yellowing and a light pastel purple iridescence. I am wondering if the snow (Amel.& Anery.) are possibly masking the lavender? I would really appreciate any kind of information you might have on him so I may be able to decide what to match him with. He is definitely a stud because he has impregnated my 2000 0.1 Okeetee Het. Amel. (which is also supposed to be your stock) and he wants more. I am sorry but I do not have any A.C.R. #'s available for them. I have posted a couple pics also labled just the way I received them from her.
Thank You,
Jay & PJ
~*PJCReptiles*~

The pics are labled exactly as I received them.

Snow_ph_Lav_head_01

Snow_ph_Opal_side_01

SnowphLav01

now the sticker that came with him said 2001 Snow Homo. Poss. Het. Lavender
PLEASE HELP????? :shrugs:

 

[PtDnsr]

Obviously this is a question for Rich but I believe the general consensus is that anery masks lavender. I'm not sure how adding amel would play into that which is why he was probably labeled as "snow homo poss het lavender" (and since you said he came from Rich's opal projects). I would match him with something containing lavender (either plain lavender with hets or an opal most likely). If you pair with an opal and get only amels then he's most likely a snow but if you get all opals he's homo lavender. I hope I'm explaining this coherently. I'm going to quit going on now - he's sure purty though!

~Katie

 

[Joejr14]

Actually no, lavender masks anery. That would be why Rich sells anery lavs that look just like regular lavs, but have the extra gene. I shouldn't say 'just like regular lavs' since there's no regular look, and from what I've seen they tend to appear lighter.

From everything I've seen, anery does not mask lavender, in fact that is the opposite. It appears that when anery and lavender are also accompanied by the amel gene, there's some fuzzyness. Snow lavs (snopals) don't really look opal or snow---there's some mixture there.

It's quite possible that you have a snow lavender, but only breedings will tell.

 

[PtDnsr]

Thanks for correcting me on that one Joe!

~Katie

 

[Serpwidgets]

It may be this snake. http://www.herpregistry.com/acr/Registry.php?idnum=2718 It was registered by Julie and is the only snow she registered. The notes also match up with your comments, and it's a 2001 hatch from SerpenCo.

(You might want to contact her and see if she will send you the certificate for the snake.)

I would suggest crossing it to something that is homo lavender and that does not carry any anery genes. This would be the only way to get a good reading on its genotype.
- If it produces any non-lavs, it is not homo lavender.
- If it produces some lavs and some non-lavs, it's het.
- If it produces all normals, it's probably not het or homo lavender.
- If it produces all lavenders, it's probably homo lavender.

 

[jzal8]

Actually no, lavender masks anery. That would be why Rich sells anery lavs that look just like regular lavs, but have the extra gene. I shouldn't say 'just like regular lavs' since there's no regular look, and from what I've seen they tend to appear lighter.

Yea that isn't exactly true at all. Anery Lavs and Lavs look much different from each other. I don't believe the Lavender really does mask anery. There are distinct differences between the two morphs if you look at comparison photos of the two.

When you say that there really is no "regular look" with lavenders you are definitely correct there so it can be difficult to tell in some cases. But for the most part I would think it is very clear when a corn is anery lavender (at least a month after hatching). :cheers:

 

[Kat]

The two anery lav hatchlings I have both look different from normal lavs. Two isn't a great sample size, but I can't subscribe to the looks-just-like-a-lav idea.

-Kat

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Thanks

Thanks for all the info. I beleive I may have to go with Mr. Pritzels suggestion. Only way to find out is by trial and error,right? Well, I guess i'm in the market for an adult female Lav. or maybe even a Lav. Motley. Anyone have a 2003 or older girl for sale please let me know.
Thanks,
Jay
~*PJCReptiles*~

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Reply to Serp

Hi,
Following your quote.......

I would suggest crossing it to something that is homo lavender and that does not carry any anery genes. This would be the only way to get a good reading on its genotype.

Do you think it would be alright to prove him out with a Lavender Poss. Het. Hypo.? I put the combo in a genetics program and it still said if he is Homo. Lav. he would still throw all Lavs. They would just be Het. Amel. & Anery. & Snow, Poss, Het. for Hypo. Does this sound like an option I could use to prove him? :shrugs:
Requesting Your Superior Intelect,
Jay & PJ
~*PJCReptiles*~

 

[Serpwidgets]

Do you think it would be alright to prove him out with a Lavender Poss. Het. Hypo.?

Yeah, basically if you keep anery out of the equation you should be ok. Since you will probably not be 100% sure if an unknown lavender is carrying anery, it's probably also wise to keep amel out of the other parent, too. The idea is to make sure everything in the clutch is positively identifiable as either lavender or not lavender. If you mix in anery you might not be able to tell with some of them. If some hatch out as snows, same problem that you have now.

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Thanks to Serp

Thank you very much you have been more then helpful. We also appreciate what you did by trying to find our snake "SAGE" on the A.C.R. :bowdown:
Pe@ce,
Jay & PJ
~*PJCReptiles*~

 

[Rich Z]

For all intents and purposes it does appear that Lavender overpowers 'A' Anerythrism. Perhaps not obscuring completely the traits we associate with 'A' Anerythrism, but enough so that if you threw them into a bucket with the wide range of variability you see in just standard Lavenders, it might be tough to tell them apart. Of course, not all votes are in yet in what is going on. It is entirely possibly that some of the off variants I have seen of Lavenders over the years might actually BE Lavender/Anerythristics. You just never know.......

Now when you throw Amelanism into the mix, it seems that the rules change. For three or four years, I bred Snows together that came from Lavenders, figuring that under the circumstances, I should be able to see some difference in those animals that were homozygous for 'A' Anerythrism, Amelanism, and Lavender. But nope, that didn't happen at all. Even keeping some of the offspring for a year or more, nothing that wouldn't be expected in the variability of a regular Snow corn ever became noticeable to me.

Which is why I terminated the entire project and sold off ALL of the animals associated with it. Even if some difference in appearance might have become evident in three years or so, I wasn't willing to allocate the resources in order to determine if that were going to be the case.

Of course, with what I have seen in recent years, the thought has crossed my mind that maybe what I was working with might have just been a variation in the Opal Corns and not Snows at all. Which would mean that all of the babies were simply pretty much the same as the adults as far as that variant of Opal would look like. I certainly could not rule out that Murphy's Law curve ball thrown at me.

 

[Noe..gr]

Sorry if this is :-offtopic All this time I'm wondering why none has ever mentioned charcoal lavenders.Is there an obvious answer? :shrugs: I'm planning to make them in a few years and don't know what to expect.I think they should look different from anery A lavs and more noticeable.Am I right?

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Thanks Rich

Thank You Rich,
So what you are actually saying is he could be a "Snow Phase Lavender" meaning he would be triple homozygous for Amel. Anery. and Lavender? If thats the case...SWEET!!! Well the only way to find out is to prove him out. I am going to breed him with a Lavender Poss. Het. Hypo. and see what we get. Please be all Lavenders!!!....lol. This has become a very informative thread and I thank everyone who help with with my question.
Thanks,
Jay & PJ
~*PJCReptiles*~

 

[Rich Z]

Sorry if this is :-offtopic All this time I'm wondering why none has ever mentioned charcoal lavenders.Is there an obvious answer? :shrugs: I'm planning to make them in a few years and don't know what to expect.I think they should look different from anery A lavs and more noticeable.Am I right?

Actually I bred Lavender to Blizzard quite a number of years ago. Although I did get a few Charcoals that seemed to be slightly different looking, none ever matured into anything substantially different looking from a typical Charcoal. And I never bothered to breed them back to a Lavender to see if they were in fact homozygous for both genes. With that being said, I am also growing up some Charcoals and Pewters het for Hypo Lavender right at this time. Maybe Hypomelanism and/or Blood Red will change the mixture a bit. Of course, as has happened in the past, I may decide to dump the whole project before I ever get them grown up to breed. I've got WAY too many ongoing projects, and need to cut back to a more realistic work load. There just isn't enough time nor stamina available to do every project possible these days. NO ONE can do them all, so you have to pick and choose which ones would be most interesting to you. Fortunately everyone will have their own opinions of what is most interesting to them, so hopefully ALL possible projects will get done by someone at some time.

 

[El Jefe]

NO ONE can do them all, so you have to pick and choose which ones would be most interesting to you. Fortunately everyone will have their own opinions of what is most interesting to them, so hopefully ALL possible projects will get done by someone at some time.

I second that!!! :cheers:

Pencil me in for the lavas (obviously) and trying to get those darn patternless/vanishing pattern things figured out. :shrugs: