Mystery Line Corns with Lava in the Mix?

[ecreipeoj]

I recently found out that I have some of Rich Hume’s Mystery line Corns. Rich bred a Caramel Bloodred to a Lava het Anery I sent him, to begin my first Topaz Bloodred Project. In 2010 I bred 1.2 Het Topaz Bloods together, with some puzzling results. I emailed Rich to see if the Caramel Bloodred was from his Mystery Line, and found out that it is, and the Caramel Bloodred has proven to be het Anery, Amel, Hypo, and Lavender. This means that my Topaz Bloodred Project is now ph for Amel, Hypo, and Lavender, which began to explain some of my results.

My first clutch that hatched produced my expected results, Topaz, Lava Blood, Bloodred, and what I first assumed was a Red Lava. When the second clutch hatched, all I saw were morphs that I haven’t seen before. Here are the photos of the morphs recovered from the first clutch.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Here are the morphs recovered from the second clutch. One looks like an Ice, with no color at all, one looks to be homo for Caramel, but I don’t know what else, and the others look similar to Hypo Lavenders, but are different somehow. The pink ones are all female too, which is not exactly what I would expect from Hypo Lavs.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Now that they have shed a few times, and when I compare the “Red Lava” to some Strawberries I hatched out in 2010, it seems as if, I produced a Strawberry in the first clutch, not a Red Lava. There isn’t much reduction in melanin, and its eyes are normal, which is not normal characteristics of a Lava. Also, it is extremely different than its orange Lava Bloodred sibling, in coloration, so perhaps it is different.

In these second group of photos of the odd balls with the “Strawberry“ , the Hypo Lavs, are looking more and more like Strawberry Lavenders, and what may be an Anery Caramel, seems to be homo for Strawberry as well. Perhaps some of the mystery in the Mystery Line, is Strawberry, not Hypo.

Based upon my limited breeding results of my trio, they seem to be:
1.0 het Lava, Caramel, Bloodred, “Strawberry”, Anery, Lavender

First clutch female
0.1 Het Lava, Caramel, Bloodred, “Strawberry”

Second clutch female
0.1 het Lava, Caramel, Bloodred, “Strawberry”, Anery, Lavender

I have been raising hets to produce Lava Lavender Bloods, and after seeing my Strawberries I produced this year, have decided to start, a Pied-Sided Strawberry Project. Thanks to some very unexpected genes being discovered in my Topaz Bloodred Projects, these and many other possibilities are possible from my 2011 breedings. Mystery Line Corns with Lava in the mix!

 

[Outcast]

Joe, those are some pretty snakelings you have there.

 

[iculatr]

I'm pretty sure i'd keep all those in the collection for a while What a fun project!

 

[diamondlil]

Stunning little corns Joe.

 

[ecreipeoj]

I'm pretty sure i'd keep all those in the collection for a while What a fun project!

I will take a little luck these days.

All of these are 66% ph, which in time do prove out, so in fact they are hets, but we just don’t know it yet. There could be some pretty remarkable combos pop out of this mix.

Redcoat is in this mix too. Call it Redcoat, Red Factor, or Red Gene, it seems to be the same thing. There is a remarkable difference between a Redcoat and Non-Redcoat, if you learn to see it.

The only morphs from this project so far that look like Lavas are the Lava Blood, and Topaz, which both have split bellies. All of the rest have normal looking eyes. I will repeat the same breedings this year, so more offspring should be produced,. It is likely, that some interested combos will pop up, or add to the Mystery. .

 

[Susan]

I am so glad I'm not the one that has to try to figure it all out. It will be bad enough when I eventually have to deal with clutches from quad and quint het parents whose genetics I know. Dealing with that many unknowns would probably shut my one bran cell down completely. I love the lava blood, and those strawberry lavenders (?) are amazing!

 

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

Since I don't breed, I know absolutely nothing about cornsnake genetics. I just wanted to say that those snakelets are amazing! I especially like the vivid red one in the first photo, as well as the pink snake in pic #13 .

 

[ecreipeoj]

I am so glad I'm not the one that has to try to figure it all out. It will be bad enough when I eventually have to deal with clutches from quad and quint het parents whose genetics I know. Dealing with that many unknowns would probably shut my one bran cell down completely. I love the lava blood, and those strawberry lavenders (?) are amazing!

Thanks to Rich H testing out the Caramel Bloodred as het ‘Hypo”, Anery, Amel and Lavender, I will have a great handle on the known hets involved. Identifing the combos will be fun.

Rich H did say the Hypos he produced look funny. They look funny to me too. I think some of the mystery, from the genes I got from the line, is Strawberry, but it could be worse. The Hypo that started the line could have been a Hypo/Straw, which could really mix up results even more. Add to that, Caramel and Lavender combos nobody had seen, and no wonder it was so mysterious, with different people having different results. It is similar to the same thing that happen when Ultramels were looked at closer.

If I didn’t know Strawberry and Hypo are alleles, and if I had not hatched out Strawberries in 2010, I would never have thought Strawberry. I am pretty sure, Strawberry is in my mix.

Last year I made Normal het Sunkissed Lava Striped Amel Caramels, and I didn’t even know what to call them, now I do quint hets? Why doesn’t my spell check like it?

I totally lucked into bring most of the genes in the Mystery line into a Topaz Bloodred Project. My Lava Blood from this line could be a quad het and so could the Topaz.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Since I don't breed, I know absolutely nothing about cornsnake genetics. I just wanted to say that those snakelets are amazing! I especially like the vivid red one in the first photo, as well as the pink snake in pic #13 .

Vivid red is a good way to describe Strawberry. I had never seen them in person until I hatched out a clutch of het Sunkissed Strawberries last year. I was actually quite surprised at how different they are than Hypos. Darker, and RED instead of orange. I am also surprised that nobody has really mentioned the reduction of yellow pigment too. It looks like at least one of the yellows is just gone to me, but I have only seen hatchlings.

Here are some example photos of Strawberries ph Sunkissed from 2010. You can see why the Vivid Red hypo in the first clutch eventually turned into a Strawberry rather than a Red Lava. I actually wrote Red Lava on the lid, but have since changed my mind.

I think the Pink one is a Strawberry Lavender. You can identify the Hypo Group and Lavenders under 100X microscope if you learn the expected patterns of melanin distribution. I haven’t done it yet, but have learned up about it. I know I can identify the Vivid Red morph in the first clutch with this method, which I intend to do.

 

[Dreamsnake]

From all the strawberry pics I've seen, there is a greatly reduced yellow and some adults have only a coral ground with the berry red saddles or pattern. I'd like to study this gene as well. If you're willing to part with any strawberries this year, I'd be happy to take a male and female off your hands.

 

[ecreipeoj]

From all the strawberry pics I've seen, there is a greatly reduced yellow and some adults have only a coral ground with the berry red saddles or pattern. I'd like to study this gene as well. If you're willing to part with any strawberries this year, I'd be happy to take a male and female off your hands.

I appreciate the interest, but I do not have any to offer. All of mine are 66% ph Sunkissed, and the line is Stargazer free. I know how much I do not like obtaining ph, but when I produce them, I consider all of them hets until proven otherwise.

I don’t really know if I produced a Strawberry Sunkissed or not, because this female was the only Sunkissed in the clutch, so nothing to compare her too. I think she is a Strawberry Sunkissed. She is not exactly what I envisioned, but I know vivid red Sunkissed are possible, and the value of knowing the line is Stargazer free, is enormous to me.

I know Stargazer is wide spread in Sunkissed and I have personal knowledge of what finding it in your project feels like. If you care, it is like blowing your engine in your car and finding yourself on the side of the road.

I have 1.3 adult Het Sunkissed Strawberries Stargazer free to breed in 2011. As long as my male does his part, I should get a pretty good selection of Sunkissed to look at. I do not usually hold back phs the second year of production, so the extra Strawberry offspring will need to go somewhere. The line is 100% known to be Strawberry and not Hypo, so I knew I wouldn’t be wasting my time with any guess work there.

I don't really see much yellow on this girl either. There is orange, which is a product of yellow, but something is missing.

 

[Dreamsnake]

It seems that everyone working with the strawberry gene is holding back to double up traits for the F2 or F3 generation. I'm only interested in strawberry, lavender, and snow at the moment. If you prove a few snakes not het for sunkissed and no longer need them in your breeding collection give me a shout. I can wait til 2011-12.

 

[Irish Eyes (Mrs.Z)]

I think I really like that strawberry coloring. Another "someday" color morph for me, perhaps .

 

[Dreamsnake]

I think I really like that strawberry coloring. Another "someday" color morph for me, perhaps .

I have a cap on corn snake acquisitions, so I must wait for the morphs I want to become available before I can add new additions. A small price to pay since we can't afford new pets at the moment.

 

[Tom Tuttle]

I've been working with the mystery line for several years now. I produce some very interesting animals each year from the line. So far i have not desired to add lava to the mix since hypo is already involved. Hope you have fun sorting them out!

 

[ecreipeoj]

I've been working with the mystery line for several years now. I produce some very interesting animals each year from the line. So far i have not desired to add lava to the mix since hypo is already involved. Hope you have fun sorting them out!

I haven’t came right out and said it, but I believe the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns is that Strawberry is the hypo involved NOT Hypo and that Strawberry is an allele to Hypo.

The solution to the Ultra Mystery was that Ultra is an allele to Amel. I believe the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns is that Strawberry is an allele to Hypo. Mystery Line Corns can be Homo Strawberry, Homo Hypo or Het Straw/Hypo.

Other than Caramel and Lavender being in the mix which was new, I believe the mystery of the line is Strawberry.

 

[Rich Z]

I haven’t came right out and said it, but I believe the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns is that Strawberry is the hypo involved NOT Hypo and that Strawberry is an allele to Hypo.

The solution to the Ultra Mystery was that Ultra is an allele to Amel. I believe the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns is that Strawberry is an allele to Hypo. Mystery Line Corns can be Homo Strawberry, Homo Hypo or Het Straw/Hypo.

Other than Caramel and Lavender being in the mix which was new, I believe the mystery of the line is Strawberry.

It could be. Certainly would help to explain all the hair pulling that "hypo" has caused me over the years, partcularly in the Crimson. I had far too many instances of breeding Crimson to Crimson and came up with normals. Certainly those Strawberries DO look an awful lot like the Crimsons I was producing...

 

[ecreipeoj]

It could be. Certainly would help to explain all the hair pulling that "hypo" has caused me over the years, partcularly in the Crimson. I had far too many instances of breeding Crimson to Crimson and came up with normals. Certainly those Strawberries DO look an awful lot like the Crimsons I was producing...

If I may give credit to my understanding of Corn Snake Genetics, I would like to do it now. If you do not know about the Ultra Mystery Thread on this forum, learn how to find it and read some Corn Snake History as it happened. Then learn about alleles. The solution to the Ultra Mystery Thread exponentially increased my understanding of Corn Snake genetics, like I could not have imagined. I give credit to the solution to the Ultra Mystery to Serpwidges (Charles Pritzel, “Chuck“).

I don’t remember the exact chronological events of my understanding of Corn Snake Genetics, but Diffused comes next in my mind. Diffused was the SOLOTION to Bloodreds. I give credit to Serpwidgets for this solution. My understanding of Corn Snake genetics increased exponentially.

Striped is an allele to Motley, credit Serpwidgets. My understanding of Corn Snake genetics increased exponentially.

Strawberry is an allele to Hypo. I have reviewed the evidence and it is more than anything ever presented to confirm an allele. Today Ultra/Amel and Motley/Striped are common accepted knowledge. Strawberry IS an allele to Hypo. Also, there is no excuse to ever guess what hypo you have. At 100X on a microscope, you can tell. I give credit to all of this knowledge about my understanding of Corn Snake Genetics to Serpwidgets.

The reason I saw the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns is because of Serpwidgets and my experience. I was working with Hets for Strawberry, but I didn’t know it. My experience with starting new projects by creating hets and then recovering the building blocks or parts of the puzzle, the morphs, has accumulated over the years. Since I was using hets, I saw Strawberry.

All of the photos I have seen of the Mystery Line Corns are MORPHS. Who produced a Strawberry from these Morphs? Maybe nobody, because they were working with the Mystery looking MORPHS and the Normal phs were sold or disposed of. Everything that we were looking at from the Mystery line were Strawberry Lavenders, Strawberry Lavender Bloods, Strawberry Lavender Caramels and on an on. At the time, unidentifiable morphs. Plus like with Ultramel, Ultra/Amel, the Mystery Line has Hypo/Straw. Hypo and Strawberry are as different as Amel and Ultra if you learn to see it. Hypos are orange with very reduced pigment, Strawberries are darker and RED.

I saw the solution to the Mystery Line of Corns because of Serpwidges. Someone who I have never met, but met first here on this forum and our communication continues today. He publishes the Cornsnake Morph Guide available through many sources such as Kathy Love and others. He also maintains the ACR, the American Cornsnake Registry. There is no better source of information about Corn Snake Genetics than the Cornsnake Morph Guide.

I have sold het Hypos that have proven NOT to carry the Hypo gene, this is a fact. You can read about it all in the BIO. I can tell you exactly why now, but I did not have the knowledge at the time I sold them. It is amazing to me that Rich Z Hypos and any other Hypo has not produced more NORMALS in clutches and therefore caused more accusations of selling hets that are not actual hets for "Hypo".

I can not believe how lucky I have been over the years selling hets. If my first breeding between Lava X Amel het Anery also carried the Hypo gene as Het, many of the snakes sold as het Lava would have proved to be het for Hypo, NOT Lava. The Amel het Anery I used was purchased from Lloyd Lemke. You are not expected to know the name, but many old timers will know of him. Why I did not get the Hypo gene from Lloyd is only luck on my part. The Hypo Gene is plain and simply a mess today.

Originally, two hypomelanistic looking Corns were discovered, but only Hypo took hold. The other one is in the mix in somewhere. I see “Sunsets” an un-described hypo I see in Lavenders. It might be Dilute, but mix Dilute, Hypo, Strawberry, Christmas, Ultra and others not yet described and I will give an excuse for MYSELF and anybody else that sells a het Hypo that turns out not to match up with the “hypo” in your colony.

If anybody purchased hypos from Rich Z and you produced Normals from them, or if you bought het Hypos from me, and did not produce Hypos from them. It is not our fault, we did not know enough at the time.

If you own a Mystery Line Corn that is pink, have a drink, they are Corals. If you like Coral Ghost, Coral Snows, Striped Coral Snows, Vanishing Pattern Coral Snows, have a drink! The solution is Strawberry, and you have Strawberry Lavenders, which are Coral Lavenders, have another drink and lets all get excited about this hobby again!