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New motor for my vette...
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
Figured I might as well move this thread into my own personal forum.
Anyway, just to show you how insane I went with all the problems with that Warhawk engine, and waiting for the new one to be built, I went and brought the front and rear support cradles home and polished the darn things. They are made out of aluminum for weight, so it wasn't all that tough. Just tedious as all hell.. Can't say I'd ever want to do this again, but who knows what depths my insanity has reached?
REAR CRADLE:
FRONT CRADLE:
Anyway, just to show you how insane I went with all the problems with that Warhawk engine, and waiting for the new one to be built, I went and brought the front and rear support cradles home and polished the darn things. They are made out of aluminum for weight, so it wasn't all that tough. Just tedious as all hell.. Can't say I'd ever want to do this again, but who knows what depths my insanity has reached?
REAR CRADLE:
FRONT CRADLE:
Yeah man.... It's been in the shop for over 6 months now. I was looking at my key ring a while back to take off some keys I didn't need to be toting around when Connie and I went on a trip, and I was staring at this one key wondering what the heck it was for. Well it was for my vette. I hadn't used it in so long that I just forgot for a moment what it was for.
Well the guy at the shop says he hopes to have the initial startup of the engine while in the car by this time next week. Got my fingers crossed, for sure...
Why? Do you just want to hear me scream or something? :headbang:
It's now been 8 months since I first put my car in the shop. Every week for the past few weeks I have thought that THIS is the week it will be started up for the first time. But nope.
The new headers came in and got damaged in transit.
The valve covers need to have bungs (whoever came up with that name?) welded into them for the catch cans. The guy who took them in to do the work went off on a fishing tournament.
The guy working on my car opened the box with the new starter in it and the solenoid was damaged. Apparently NO ONE around here has a replacement.
The guy we ordered the new throttle body from told me last Tuesday that we would have it by Thursday. Just got the tracking number today and it is due to be delivered tomorrow, having shipped on Friday.
Honestly if the guy wasn't so far off the beaten track with his shop, I would be REAL close to telling him to just roll it outside and put a FOR SALE sign on it with BEST OFFER.
So yeah, it's supposed to be finished to the point of first start up THIS week.... But am I holding my breath? :nope:
Unbelievable as it may seem, my car is STILL in the shop. :headbang:
From the last message to this one, I had to reject that original Warhawk engine because I found a crack in one of the heads around a valve guide and just decided (with all the other problems) that I didn't want this turkey in my car. So this latest engine is based on the RHS block and some other brand of heads (which look a LOT nicer) that I can't remember off hand. Of course, this all took substantial time to iron out.
Anyway, here's the latest video I took last week (Thursday - 07/29) of the "coming to life" of the engine. This is the second time it was started, but Wednesday the few times we tried it would rev up to around 3800 rpm before shutting it down. Come to find out that the throttle body is allowing way too much air through it at idle. So the guy working on it put on another throttle body that seemed to be indexed correctly and that fixed that particular problem You can hear at the end that the engine running away stopped when the other throttle body was put onto the intake. And you can see that the A/F ratio needs to be tweaked from the unburned gasoline coming out of the tailpipes..
We also found an oil leak that is coming from the camshaft position sensor. Short explanation is that the sensor had to be relocated from the rear or the block to the front, and then on top of that, RHS raised the camshaft higher off of the crank, so this was pretty much a custom job (yet again). Apparently LME welded a bung onto the timing chain cover, and for some dang reason the bung is too big for the sensor itself. Consequently the O-ring seal doesn't fit tight enough and oil is leaking around it. Still working on a solution to this right at the moment, but to say I am aggravated at yet another roadblock is a vast understatement. It's now been nine (9) months that my car has been in the shop!
Anyway, here's a video of that session starting the new engine up...
From the last message to this one, I had to reject that original Warhawk engine because I found a crack in one of the heads around a valve guide and just decided (with all the other problems) that I didn't want this turkey in my car. So this latest engine is based on the RHS block and some other brand of heads (which look a LOT nicer) that I can't remember off hand. Of course, this all took substantial time to iron out.
Anyway, here's the latest video I took last week (Thursday - 07/29) of the "coming to life" of the engine. This is the second time it was started, but Wednesday the few times we tried it would rev up to around 3800 rpm before shutting it down. Come to find out that the throttle body is allowing way too much air through it at idle. So the guy working on it put on another throttle body that seemed to be indexed correctly and that fixed that particular problem You can hear at the end that the engine running away stopped when the other throttle body was put onto the intake. And you can see that the A/F ratio needs to be tweaked from the unburned gasoline coming out of the tailpipes..
We also found an oil leak that is coming from the camshaft position sensor. Short explanation is that the sensor had to be relocated from the rear or the block to the front, and then on top of that, RHS raised the camshaft higher off of the crank, so this was pretty much a custom job (yet again). Apparently LME welded a bung onto the timing chain cover, and for some dang reason the bung is too big for the sensor itself. Consequently the O-ring seal doesn't fit tight enough and oil is leaking around it. Still working on a solution to this right at the moment, but to say I am aggravated at yet another roadblock is a vast understatement. It's now been nine (9) months that my car has been in the shop!
Anyway, here's a video of that session starting the new engine up...
army_greywolf
New member
Man...for all that mess I could have built you a drop in engine with the same HP figures and sent it R&L carriers...buttoned up ready for the cradles. Personally, for simplicity in parts wrangling, go with a stock block, darton sleeved motor, with cnc ported heads, big valves, decently long duration cam, and base it all around a crate engine depot ls7. Ive heard many good things from RHS, so it's a matter of opinion.
If you ever want/need or would like to ask me questions or pick my brain I am in the business of this sort of thing. A TB swap doesn't make much sense to me as an idle cure...nor does massively bad AFRs at idle. Have them pull timing, get the idle dialed in, then build the tune from a good rhythmic idle, because if they start building MAF tables with a choppy idle it WILL skew the tables and cause LTFT trims to go all over the place...particularly with turbo setups. And be sure they do monitor EGTs while tuning and put in a MAF safeguard for you so you don't cook your engine or crack exhaust valve seats/melt a piston or destroy a ring land.
But thumbs up so far, looks like itll be a beast. I went the route of an indiscretion with a LNF powered 2.0 directed injected turbocharged cobalt ss. It's built up to my liking, I have a couple grand in it easily, but saved ALOT doing my own work.
Let me know if your not happy with your final tune or if it's just "off" If you have access to HP Tuners I can probably help you out with a bit of logging and emailing fixes.
If you ever want/need or would like to ask me questions or pick my brain I am in the business of this sort of thing. A TB swap doesn't make much sense to me as an idle cure...nor does massively bad AFRs at idle. Have them pull timing, get the idle dialed in, then build the tune from a good rhythmic idle, because if they start building MAF tables with a choppy idle it WILL skew the tables and cause LTFT trims to go all over the place...particularly with turbo setups. And be sure they do monitor EGTs while tuning and put in a MAF safeguard for you so you don't cook your engine or crack exhaust valve seats/melt a piston or destroy a ring land.
But thumbs up so far, looks like itll be a beast. I went the route of an indiscretion with a LNF powered 2.0 directed injected turbocharged cobalt ss. It's built up to my liking, I have a couple grand in it easily, but saved ALOT doing my own work.
Let me know if your not happy with your final tune or if it's just "off" If you have access to HP Tuners I can probably help you out with a bit of logging and emailing fixes.
Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.
Yes, I knew the LS7 was an option, but since GM obviously didn't want to use that block for their LS9 engine, I felt it prudent to follow suit since I am using forced induction.
As for the out of whack AFR at startup, bear in mind that this was a initial tune just to GET a startup. Nothing more. The real tune won't take place until the oil leak is fixed and we can get some runtime on the engine.
As for the throttle body, it was DEFINITELY the culprit as you could see that the blade was open WAY too much at the idle position. So of course the engine was going to rev up like it did since the blade was allowing far too much air to enter into the engine. That TB has been sent back to the guy who made it so he can fix it. Probably just some sort of misalignment needing to be done to restrict the airflow at the idle position.
And yes, I do have HP Tuners as well as EFIlive, so thanks for the offer. The guy does seem to be pretty good at tuning, so hopefully he will have a handle on it.
Rich Z.
Yes, I knew the LS7 was an option, but since GM obviously didn't want to use that block for their LS9 engine, I felt it prudent to follow suit since I am using forced induction.
As for the out of whack AFR at startup, bear in mind that this was a initial tune just to GET a startup. Nothing more. The real tune won't take place until the oil leak is fixed and we can get some runtime on the engine.
As for the throttle body, it was DEFINITELY the culprit as you could see that the blade was open WAY too much at the idle position. So of course the engine was going to rev up like it did since the blade was allowing far too much air to enter into the engine. That TB has been sent back to the guy who made it so he can fix it. Probably just some sort of misalignment needing to be done to restrict the airflow at the idle position.
And yes, I do have HP Tuners as well as EFIlive, so thanks for the offer. The guy does seem to be pretty good at tuning, so hopefully he will have a handle on it.
Rich Z.
army_greywolf
New member
Either way, I'm a turbo fan, and a fan of big cubes AND turbos...so you have a winning combination as far as I'm concerned, did you pick out a FI cam or just something with more lobe separation?
The guy doing the work picked the specs for the cam and said he chose one that would be optimum for forced induction. I know I have the specs written down somewhere around here. Honestly, I'm actually concerned that all the air coming out of that engine and consequently the amount of air needed coming in the intake might actually make those turbos struggle to reach boost at the top end. The trade off is that boost might be kicking in a lot sooner than the 3,000 or so RPM they were spooling up on with that 346 C.I.D. LS6, though. It actually might feel more like a supercharger than a turbocharged system.
Should be interesting to see what sort of numbers it kicks out when put on the dyno and run full tilt.
army_greywolf
New member
My little Cobalt hammers out 337HP at the wheels from that little 2.0 "right now" with my personal tune and some under the hood go fast goodies. Nothing major and it's a ten minute process to go from street tune to track tune, which has never been dyno'd but I suspect is around 360 to the wheels.
Future plan is to compound the turbo feeding a M62 Supercharger as well as wiseco pistons, shot peened rods, shot peened crank cradle, clevite bearings, and a good o ring head job if I can find someone reputable to do it, I might send it out to a diesel performance shop I know of in Dallas. I also plan to up trim to a gt3071R.
I already have a good down pipe, cat back exhaust, charge piping, intercooler, snow performance meth kit (variable flow rate) and other things like poly trans mounts/poly control arm bushings and on and on, including a clutchmasters kevlar full disc clutch that was VERY recently done. I expect to make 500-525 streetable horsepower, tunable to around 600 in short bursts. LNF series ecotec is an amazing engine, one of the ONLY engines on earth that can boast 30mpg and 260hp/260tq from the factory. If only the CAR was made better...oh well, can't have everything.
Future plan is to compound the turbo feeding a M62 Supercharger as well as wiseco pistons, shot peened rods, shot peened crank cradle, clevite bearings, and a good o ring head job if I can find someone reputable to do it, I might send it out to a diesel performance shop I know of in Dallas. I also plan to up trim to a gt3071R.
I already have a good down pipe, cat back exhaust, charge piping, intercooler, snow performance meth kit (variable flow rate) and other things like poly trans mounts/poly control arm bushings and on and on, including a clutchmasters kevlar full disc clutch that was VERY recently done. I expect to make 500-525 streetable horsepower, tunable to around 600 in short bursts. LNF series ecotec is an amazing engine, one of the ONLY engines on earth that can boast 30mpg and 260hp/260tq from the factory. If only the CAR was made better...oh well, can't have everything.
You do know that the modern Corvettes easily make 30 mpg on the highway, don't you? I was shocked to hear that years ago... But darn if it isn't true..
Khaman
Headed for rehab.
Even the ZR1s and Z06s the top factory lines get over 30MPG off the line they could do that 5 years ago.
army_greywolf
New member
"Forced Induction Engines"
army_greywolf
New member
I meant FI motors whom are notorious for shaving off MPG no matter how you drive them. And I also mean factory engines. LS motors get away withit because of head design, torque at low RPMs and sheeer size vs car weight and drag coefficient.
Actually I have heard in some instances that turbocharging can actually INCREASE gas mileage at standard cruising speeds. Of course, with any car, if you put the pedal to the metal, you can just throw gas mileage right out the window.
The ZR1 is not really as fuel efficient as the Z06 and you have to pay a gas guzzler tax on that particular model as a result. Superchargers tend to have a parasitic effect on an engine.
The ZR1 is not really as fuel efficient as the Z06 and you have to pay a gas guzzler tax on that particular model as a result. Superchargers tend to have a parasitic effect on an engine.