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New Viv, lots of questions about it!

Desert_Roach

Desert_Roach

New member
Heya folks! I'm pretty much new here and was wondering if you can help a newbie out with a few questions about the viv? I've been reading contrasting views from people on the board about various things, but especially because of the guy at the pet store. He was adamant about using a heating lamp rather than a UTH and declared that everything we did was wrong (he even suggested a tiny book about corn snake morph guides that looked more like a pamphlet over Kathy Love's book!)

I decided to ignore him and just go along with a 20 gallon long Critter Cage tank for my new hatchling (not bought yet but sooo close) and tried to provide it with a lot of hiding spots. Here are some pics:
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I have included one coconut hide, one moss/damp hide for shedding, one branch-like hide, two water bowls (one small for the cool side and a larger one for the warmer side) and the tree branch. I bought some leaves to decorate it a bit more but those haven't arrived yet (I bought them along with a dual digital thermometer and humi-somethingoranother; so don't worry, bought those too!)

I also used a cobra heating mat for the 10-20 gallon; I placed it underneath the tank on the right side with a paper towel between the mat and the desk. I also attached a thermostat with it although I have a very strong feeling that both, the mat and the reptitemp 500R thermostat from zoo-med aren't very good for some reason. I especially dislike how the thermostat doesn't have any numbers on it.

I do have a few concerns however, I'll list them out:
1. I used scotch-tape to line up the probe. One of the scotch tapes is inside the viv, will it affect/harm my snake? It just feels wrong to have wires around animals.

2. I am using the black-mat cobra heating pad. Do I need to put something between it and the glass since the tank has a glass bottom?

3. Do I need extra clips to hold down the top of the tank? It's a sliding top, with two clips at the far side. Or should I just add more books?

4. Silly question but bear with me! I bought a bag of moss from the petstore as well, it feels very dry and since I'm from the desert where we have no moss, I have no idea how to deal with it! :shrugs: Do I mist it first before putting it in? Dunk it in water? Or just stuff it in the hide?

5. My sister is a smoker and although she doesn't smoke in my room, the living room is fair game. There is a good air filter in the living room, but we are aware that snakes have strong sense of smell/taste thanks to the Jacobson's Organ; how will it affect the snake? Is anyone else a smoker who handles/has snakes?

That's all for now! Thank you guys for your patience and any information would help; this is my first reptile and I'm worried about mistakes!
 
Desert_Roach said:
I do have a few concerns however, I'll list them out:
1. I used scotch-tape to line up the probe. One of the scotch tapes is inside the viv, will it affect/harm my snake? It just feels wrong to have wires around animals.
Click to expand...

Personally, I wouldn't use tape in the tank at all. It can stick to your snake's skin and things can get ugly. I just set the probe on the bottom of my tank. Sure the snakes move it around and I have to reposition it frequently, but that is better than a tape-injured snake.

Desert_Roach said:
2. I am using the black-mat cobra heating pad. Do I need to put something between it and the glass since the tank has a glass bottom?
Click to expand...

Most people on here recommend not mounting the heating pad to the tank anyway. Mount it to a ceramic tile and just set your tank over it. I'm sure some others can go into more detail.


Desert_Roach said:
3. Do I need extra clips to hold down the top of the tank? It's a sliding top, with two clips at the far side. Or should I just add more books?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even put the books up there. I have two critter cages and haven't had any escapes from them. Since the top slides, the snake cannot push it up, so it is very difficult to escape from. What I did when my snakes were small, though, is to secure the front of the cage with a bread tie. I put it through the lock thingy.

Desert_Roach said:
4. Silly question but bear with me! I bought a bag of moss from the petstore as well, it feels very dry and since I'm from the desert where we have no moss, I have no idea how to deal with it! :shrugs: Do I mist it first before putting it in? Dunk it in water? Or just stuff it in the hide?
Click to expand...

Yes, moisted the moss before putting it into the hide. What is your ambient humidity in your house? If it is at least 40%, your snakes will not really need the moist hide except when shedding. However, you can leave the moist hide in there all the time if you want. Just check the moss regularly since it tends to grow little white hairs if kept wet.

Desert_Roach said:
5. My sister is a smoker and although she doesn't smoke in my room, the living room is fair game. There is a good air filter in the living room, but we are aware that snakes have strong sense of smell/taste thanks to the Jacobson's Organ; how will it affect the snake? Is anyone else a smoker who handles/has snakes?
Click to expand...

Can't help you with this one, since I don't allow any smoking in my house.


Desert_Roach said:
That's all for now! Thank you guys for your patience and any information would help; this is my first reptile and I'm worried about mistakes!
Click to expand...

This is why corn snakes make such good started reptiles. They are very tolerant of mistakes. If you have any more questions, post them and we'll be happy to point you in the right direction.

By the way, you were smart not to listen to the pet store employee. Most of them don't know that much about the pets they sell. When we got our son's ball python, the employee tried to tell me that they needed UV lights. When I told her UV wasnt' necessary for snakes, she said, "OH, I don't know that much about snakes. I'm a lizard person myself."
 
All your questions were answered above but can I just say how good it is to hear that someone has researched the info they need to know before getting an animal. You find so many people that don't have a clue at this time of year.
 
If you are using a UTH you should set the tank on something to vent the bottom. There needs to be someway for the heat buildup under the tank to escape. I put the tank heater on the glass but on the inside I put newspaper over the glass where the heater is under the aspen.
 
I glad you didn't listen to the pet store guy. You will get some different answers here but they seem to be more of a like or dislike scenario. Pet store have a general information that cover ALL snakes. Not just corn.
Becky gave you some good information. Use if and you"ll be fine. And read up here.

Good luck.
 
Well, please don't paint all pet store employees with the same brush. I just saw in the canadian forum that MANY people on here work in pet stores including myself. I can certainly say that just because I know about a variety of snakes and lizards doesn't mean I can't instruct someone on the particulars of cornsnakes!

I think it has been shown that LOTS of employees LOVE reading, learning, and participating in forums like these just so we can be better educated! ;)

On the other hand I can't disagree either, I know a LOT of the stores around my area are full of people who don't have a clue and regularly steer people the wrong way :( Too bad, what a shame, it's seems to mostly be the "big box" type shops.....

Rebecca
 
Wow! Thanks for the replies guys!

I removed the scotch tape and will elevate the tank some, perhaps put a few cardboard stubs under each corner to allow the UTH to breathe. I was wondering why the UTH didn't feel very hot until I read in a different thread that we should keep in mind our body temp is 98 degrees. :bang:

I didn't stick my heating mat onto my tank; but since it would be elevated a bit, maybe I should find something to stick it to in order to keep it in place. I've heard cardboard with pierced holes could work like tiles as well? I just have a -lot- of cardboard boxes at home, they might finally come in handy!

And pgr8dnlvr; in all honesty the previous Petco guy was -awesome-. He owned reptiles and was very helpfu, he even showed me pics of his herps! He admitted that he didn't like snakes and that he didn't know much but made sure that I know at least the basics of owning a snake. He called me Ms Research cause I kept telling him I was only there to check on the supplies to see if they were adequate and to research before even considering buying a snake. :p

The guy I didn't like claimed he owned all sorts ball pythons, corn snakes, red tail boas and such; so I couldn't figure out why he was so adamant about how UTH was so bad and heat lamps were good (even though I mentioned my room tends to be cold and lacks humidity most of the time.) At least he didn't offer any heat rocks. :shrug:
 
I will agree that a uth is not needed. They work fine and are fine to use but it is not needed. I see many people on many sites that swear by them and say you are wrong for not using them but a che or heat lamp works fine and in my opinion works better. As a matter of fact go to the zoo and you will see they use heat lamps for all there enclosures no uths in site. As a matter of fact we have one zoo around here that is using baseboard heaters for ambient temp and heat lamps for basking spots. I have been using strictly heat lamps in my boa cages for a while now and have no problems. It was even in one issue of reptiles magazine about how a overhead heat source mimics the heat of the sun better.
 
redrott said:
I will agree that a uth is not needed. They work fine and are fine to use but it is not needed. I see many people on many sites that swear by them and say you are wrong for not using them but a che or heat lamp works fine and in my opinion works better. As a matter of fact go to the zoo and you will see they use heat lamps for all there enclosures no uths in site. As a matter of fact we have one zoo around here that is using baseboard heaters for ambient temp and heat lamps for basking spots. I have been using strictly heat lamps in my boa cages for a while now and have no problems. It was even in one issue of reptiles magazine about how a overhead heat source mimics the heat of the sun better.
Click to expand...

I agree with who?
I understand that when you live in a warm area that a heat source is not needed but from my understanding that a uth is better for corn snake because it gives them "belly" heat to help with digestion. I didn't think corn needed a basting light or light as a source of ambient heat. I also never saw a corn snake at a zoo but probably just miss it because they are nocturnal.
So when you check the temperatures of you Viv where are you thermometers or probes place at? on the substrate or in the air??
 
I was saying I agree with the pet store guy as far as the uth goes. You can use a uth for a corn and it will be fine I didn't mean to seem like there is something wrong with it. Ambient temp for a corn probably won't be a problem unless you live in a really cold area. I was saying that a basking light works fine. I was saying that the corns digestion will be fine with just an overhead basking lamp. He can lay under it and get all the heat he needs. I place my probes on the floor one on the cool side and one under the basking spot. since that is where the snake will be.
 
Ok.
But if corn are noturnal and come out at night, which I seen mine do. Wouldn't you have to leave your light on at night. Where in my case my snakes are in their hide in the daylight hours and hidden from a lamp therefore a uth would be useful to them.
 
You can use a che which does not produce light just heat. Or you can use the red or blacklight nocturnal lamps. by the way is the sun out at night. If you don't want to use those lights which you can leave on at night you can use a daytime lamp and put a rock in the enclosure under the lamp for a basking spot. Which will absorb the heat during the day from the lamp and be a warm spot for them to bask on at night just like in the wild. The sun isn't out at night so if to find a warm spot at night they may lie on a road or a rock that has sucked up the heat all day and gives off some warmth at night. I am not trying to nock uth's I am just saying you don't have to use them a light works fine.
 
Desert_Roach said:
3. Do I need extra clips to hold down the top of the tank? It's a sliding top, with two clips at the far side. Or should I just add more books?
Click to expand...

I have the same tank as you, except its the 10 gallon. I JUST got it today after i found my baby corn snake who escaped from his old tank. I tie a shoelace through the lock hole. Hopefully it should be sufficient. Let me know if you have any problems with it, and ill let you know too.

For both our sakes, lets hope the cage lives up to its standards.
 
redrott said:
by the way is the sun out at night.

Which will absorb the heat during the day from the lamp and be a warm spot for them to bask on at night just like in the wild. The sun isn't out at night so if to find a warm spot at night they may lie on a road or a rock that has sucked up the heat all day and gives off some warmth at night.
Click to expand...

Basically you used the same argument I was going to add to this discussion to support the use of UTH's. The problem with your comparison to the real world is that a 60-150 Watt light in no way compares to the heat of the sun, nor does the amount of latent heat that is absorbed by the Earth, asphalt and rocks compare to the latent heat left behind in aspen bedding and a piece of rock or driftwood. The latent heat left behind in the Earth causes actual winds to occur due to temperature differences between land and water . . . don't really see any small breezes occuring in any of my tanks when the lights go out . . . :sidestep:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but snakes are most active just after sundown on asphalt roads where they receive belly heat.

Now with that said, I use both UTH heaters as well as FlexWatt on the back of my racks.

I am of the solid opinion that light bulbs will dry out the enclosure too much for any gains from basking heat to be beneficial.

D80
 
Also a extra problem with basking lamps is they dry out the air causing low humidity which cann effect shedding.
 
I use uth on my hatchling and did have them on all my corn snakes but i live in the UK and our heating at home is not very good, i found the cold end and ambiant temps in my melamine vivs was just to low i changed and got a reptile radiator (which heat from above) now my corn is out alot more, is more active and is out basking in the heat.
Also a uth is not waterproof and i didn't want to risk it inside the viv because my snake might go to toilet on it very rare i know but has happened.
 
UTH's specially made for reptiles are 100% waterproof it says so on the packaging. When I bought it the guy reckoned I would be safe to go into the bath with it. Are you sure the snake isn't too hot and always trying to find a cooler spot. Those thingd are mean't for heating large cages so I would buy a thermostat if you haven't already got one. Heat mats are desinghed to go inside vivs.
 
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