There is also the problem of the "system" QB. There are QB's that are good in and of themselves, but then there are those that are "good" because of the system they played in.
Some system QB's.... Joe Montana, Big Ben, Matt Cassell (sp?), Tom Brady, Terry Bradshaw (possibly?), and I'll even put in Troy Aikman, et al.
Good QB's in and of themselves.... Dan Fouts, Rodger Staubach, John Elway, Jim Plunkett, Peyton Manning, et al.
Now, I'm not trying to cause an argument, this is just an opinion.
Great points, but above all, a ranking system is left purely to opinions anyway, because their are two many variables to precisely compare and contrast. To me, Peyton Manning is one of, if not the, most gifted QB of all time, but he also has alot of talent surrounding him, and he himself has let alot of playoff games go to Tom Brady, and some other teams with less talent than those around him. I mean, it's not like the Patriots were destined for a dynasty and Tom was along for the ride; he has made the plays when they count the very most and has led and inspired his team to four super bowls, and three of those were wins. If you ask any Patriot player who was the key player on their super bowl teams, they will all say Brady.
As for Ben Roethlisberger, Their was a time when the Steelers had Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress, with a remarkable defense, yet they couldn't amount to diddly until Big Ben showed up. Tommy Maddox should have flourished in that system under Bill Cowher, but he didn't.
For me at least, rings are everything. "if if's were fifths, we'd all be drunk". Also, again in my opinion, it is so much harder to repeat as champions in today's game as it has ever been. I think the game is at it's finest today, and I know their are those who dis-agree, but overall player's are stronger, faster, smarter, and healthier than ever. Yes, their are a select few who transcend time and are the greatest of all time, ie; Jim Brown, Deacon Jones, Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Darrell Green, Deion Sanders, etc. but those players were few and far between. A huge reason for that is the growing increase in cultural diversity. The game now consists of all sorts of people, from Tom Brady, to Ray Lewis, to Hines Ward, to Troy Polamalu. Gameplans are immensely more sophisticated, and offenses are more spread than they were even 5 years ago. Defenses have become harder to read than a swiss dictionary, and the schemes very greatly from team to eam, from week to week.
As for the game being "soft", I have to say that's not true. Yes, their are more regulations on hits, but conversely that adds to healthier players, and longer careers, and that will only increase in time. With a game like football, their is no way to take the physicality out of it, regardless of rules changes. I do think that back in the day players played more for the game, than the money, but the two go hand and hand; The harder you play the more money you receive, and that won't change. Also, with everything players sacrifice for the game, they deserve to get the compensation that they do. It's the right thing. In all fairness, I am only 21, and have only been following football since 2000, but I watch films all the time on Sonny Jerginsen, Fran Tarkenton, Bobby Lane, and all sorts of guys from the steve sabol shows, and I watch how poor coverages were, and quite frankly, how white the players were. Doug Williams, Joe Gilliam, and a ton of other guys were far ahead of their times, but the game wasn't ready. Today we're alot closer, and that's basically my point.
I do love the discussion, though, and you make good points; by the way, I gaurantee "Average Ben" will win a 2nd straight super bowl. Mark my words!.
