• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

not happy

former reader

New member
I choose to remain anomymous. I came to this 'free' site to gain knowledge. It has helped very much. I was upset by the notice about asking for donations in the context that was given. Rich you have made this a free site. If you need help start making this a paying site. It's your choice to even have this site. I probably will not visit here and there is no chance of me supporting you. I know the wording of this is horible to say the least. I am just so taken back.

I am surprised you are so mad about someone asking for donations. Geez. It takes hours of work to run a sucsessful forum, and asking for donations no matter how, is the least he could be asking. Charging for a paysite would lose the whole point of this free forum, and asking for slight help on the side doesn't seem like that much to me. Just MHO

Rather sad to see that some people are in it merely for a "free ride", and when times get tough, they tuck their tail between their legs and refuse to help those who've helped them.

If you don't want to support the site, that's your prerogative, but don't whine about Rich asking for help with the costs of these sites. Your post shows how unappreciative you are.

By the way- you are not anonymous. Your IP address is logged on each and every post you make- including those you made before coming up with such a cute little pseudonym.

I do have one question for you though, "former reader"... If you feel so strongly about this, then why do lack the conviction & integrity to post using your real name?
former reader said:
I choose to remain anomymous.

Haven't got the balls to say who you really are?

No matter, Rich will know who you are by your IP address :)

There's not really much to say that hasn't been said before. I support Rich by buying his snakes. I've gotten a few beauties from him in the past and plan on buying more in the future.

As soon as I can muster up some spare cash, I'll be donating to this site too. It's not compulsary to donate, but if you've been saved money by using this site, it's only fair to give something back, and it does cost Rich money to run this site.

It's ok for Rich to hand over his cash to pay for a site which you can use for free, but it's not ok for you to spend a little bit of money on something you've gained from?

I'm kind of upset by selfish conceited little pricks like you. You won't support Rich, but it's ok for him to support you, and your hobby, and your snakes' wellbeing?

Sorry for my language in this post, but some of these morons really piss me off sometimes.
From what I understand, Rich started this site with the hope that when it got enough traffic, it would support itself through people buying banner ads. That didn't happen, so now he's looking for other ways to make this a self-sustaining site... and currently, that means donations. What exactly is your problem with that? It means that those who have the resources to give something back can, without excluding those who can't pay for a membership... or those who just found the site who have an 'emergency' they need help with... or all sorts of things.

I think this is far preferable than getting a notice of "okay, in 10 days this is becoming a pay access site... so pay up or you're out of luck".

Basically, it seems to me like you're complaining that you have the option not to pay for this site? Color me confused...

I agree with you 100%, it is a shame that people will complain about being asked to donate. (complain wasn't the word i had in mind but it had to be user friendly though) ;) And you're right if someone had the balls to post this message in the first place they should have had the balls to attach a name to it. But it is so easy to hide behind your keyboard though. And of course the IP address is logged and Rich does know who it belongs to. I don't think it is right for Rich to pay out of his pocket for us to come here and read a million things post a million questions and of course show off our wonderful snakes. But of course everyone is always looking for a "free ride" and that is too bad....

Rich obviously puts a lot of work in, but running a web site does cost money. It's unfair of us to expect Rich to make a loss when we are the ones who benefit.

The site STILL is free, Rich has just asked for donations (which are completely voluntary) so that he doesn't make a loss. He isn't asking money for his time, and will not be making a profit. What's the problem with that? He could ask for a lot more!

If you believe in what you are saying, why hide under a new username?

It amazes me that someone can be as ungrateful as yourself :mad:

:mad: :mad: :mad:
I think it's a shame that Rich has been forced to ask for donations, of course, but I will still try and help him out. The only problem is, I can't use Popex, so don't know how. Of course, I could always send him a cheque through the post.
What is more of a shame is people like you you have benefitted by this site and yet are unwilling to make a donation, and even complain, as if it were your right to free access. It's not. Rich has provided this site out of his own money, time and effort, and it's the least we can to to help him out so he isn't forced to close the site
Personally I think Rich should start charging for the classified ads and give Kingsnake.com some competition. $20 a year might be a good starting point. IMHO
If this was a TRUELY free site,

Then Former Reader should be able to voice his or her opinion. That fact that he or she has to hide shows me that this forum is too quick to come down on someone who doesn't fall right into line with the rest of the cows/sheep/herd animals who graze here.

I don't like having to pay for a free site, so why not pick on me then? My name is Gregg. If you want my phone number so you can call me up and tell me I suck for my opinion, I will give it to you. If you want my address so you can come over and argue in my face, I'll give that to you. My first reaction to Rich asking for donations was the same...SAY WHAT? There goes the "FREE" aspect. Perhaps you didn't read my statement in that other thread:


I paid my donation. This site is no longer "FREE" for me--although, you could argue that I didn't HAVE to pay anything--and you would be right. Nevertheless, on some level, I agree totally with Former Reader--that is to say, FREE should be FREE.

FREE = FREE, Unless, perhaps, we mean Free as in Public Radio, Or Public TV. Then it is free for the vast majority (some 90%+) of people who are using/watching/listening to it and not free for that mutable few (some 10%+) who are paying "donations/pledges" to keep it alive. That's how I see this forum NOW--the same as public TV or Radio. Eventually, Rich will have to have pledge drives, so he can remind people who used to pay that this site is free only due to those few supporters who pay for it. Or, we could define FREE as they do at all those triple-XXX adult websites I'm sure most of you checked out when you got your first computer with internet access. We could say it's an ALL FREE site, but you'll have to become a "Member" first, say at the rate of $5.95 a month?

I didn't mind sending money to Rich to help out. This site has really done a lot when it comes to preventing my getting anything else done. Nevertheless, I've even learned a few things. Since I pay for Public Radio, I can pay for Public Corn Snake Forum---but FREE? No more. Not if I pay.
I like

Tim Madsens idea of starting to charge for classified ads. There are a lot of people who are not satified with "that other forums" high costs, especially for tiny breeders. And Especially us in Canada! I think charging for them here, but a bit less would really be a good idea.

I also

see that someone doesn't understand the word "DONATION"

This means you don't "have" to pay, but can if you wish, and still use the site regardless. How is that taking your "Free" away? He didn't say you have to donate. You did. You said it wouldn't be free. But it certainly will if you personally choose not to donate.

Re: I also

bmm said:
see that someone doesn't understand the word "DONATION"

This means you don't "have" to pay, but can if you wish, and still use the site regardless. How is that taking your "Free" away? He didn't say you have to donate. You did. You said it wouldn't be free. But it certainly will if you personally choose not to donate.


Hey bmm, You talkin' to me! You talkin' to me? Or Don't you have the huevos to address me directly by name?

Anyway, yes, I do know what "Donation" means, but I don't think Rich had that word in mind really when he asked us for our help. A "Donation" is a gift. It implies a one time venture, as in: I donated my clothes to the Salvation Army; or I donated my wealth to the university. What Rich had/has in mind is an ongoing commitment from all of us who feels that this site is worth saving. He wants us to turn it into a pay-to-play site. He doesn't want to have to be the one, since it would make him look too mean hearted--I guess.

I repeat: this site is no longer free for me--and it will soon be no longer free for anyone, if it remains at all. And yes, I DON'T/DIDN'T have to pay and would be able to use the site anyhow. I think I addressed that, but apparently you missed it. Here I'll repeat it again.

[Q]This site is no longer "FREE" for me--although, you could argue that I didn't HAVE to pay anything--and you would be right.[/Q]

I paid, knowing full well, that I will probably be paying from here on out to use this site, if it remains.
There is no obligation for anyone to donate or pay a dime. However, Rich should not be obligated to foot the ever increasing bills on his own. He is a friend to many in this hobby, and operates these forums as a favor to the rest of us- he reaps no benefit from it.

The bills are increasing, and the advertising dollars that would have actually offsetted them are decreasing. Realistically, there were two options available: 1) Seek another way to fund the site, such as asking for help from friends; 2) Shut it down.

The idea of charging for classifieds was discussed on the BOI, but this would present more problems than it would solved. Keeping track of who's paid, and who's subscriptions are due to expire would prove to be a daunting task.

There are over 3,000 unique users between the cornsnake and faunaclassified forums. If each person were to contribute only one dollar, that would go a long way. Realistically though, only about ten percent of people, if that, will contribute.

As a side note, has anyone noticed somewhat of a slowdown in the forums the past few days? This is because the server now needs a memory upgrade.

I've sent Rich a donation without hesitation, and will do so again when my financial situation improves. Likewise, I plan to purchase advertising on his sites at that same time. In my opinion, that's the very least that I could do for a friend in need.
First off great name;) And I agree with you, I would love to have a banner here that linked to my site, but since I don't have a site yet that doesn't do me any good. My check will me mailed out tomorrow to Rich. that is if I can take time out of my busy day of grazing, and all the other sheep go there too I must stay with my herd;) And yes Gregg, I am saying that as a smart a** remark to your post. And yes I do have the balls to say that I was/am talking to you. I really don't know if I like being refered to as a sheep or a cow, or part of a herd though. And I can say that I really don't graze because I don't like anything green. i like to eat what I kill, which some people may have a problem with but hey maybe I am a black sheep. But you know life isn't that baaaaaaaaaaaaad....

Re: If this was a TRUELY free site,

What if Rich decided "Well, I'm getting nothing out of this site. It's not benefitting me. People know who I am now anyway, if they want my snakes, they know where to find me. Screw 'em. If I don't spend any more money hosting the site for those ungrateful wretches, I'll have enough spare to build that new rack system I've been thinking about"? Bye bye goes the site.

It wouldn't be free then. It wouldn't exist. Game over, end of story.

Even if EVERYBODY on the site wanted to donate, not everybody's in a position to. Some don't have a paypal account, some don't have credit cards, some have a big phobia of doing anything related to money over the Internet, some are kids that don't have the money in the first place and are here simply to gather knowledge and better understand the hobby, and these wonderous animals.

I've no problem with people not being able to donate - or even not wanting to - but when people say it's unfair or wrong of Rich to ask if people would like to make donations, that's just stupid. When people say they're not even going to use the site any more because they're tight-arsed gits who want everything for free, that's even more pathetic.

But, it certainly does show those who know the meaning of "give and take" exactly who to not help in the future :)

letspretend for a moment that we're walking down the street and happen upon someone giving away free tv's from the back of a truck. (for arguments sake these are not stolen tvs) there is a sign that says if you'd like to donate 10 bucks to help offset the price of the tvs that would be welcome. do you think the guy is a jerk for practically giving away something that really does have a marketable value for anyone who wants or needs it? no. simple as that.with logic like that displayed by you, mr. anonymous, perhaps you should run for office ratherthan waste my time.
for the rest of you, i really don't care enough to know who is or is not sending donations or their reasons why. i also don't care how strictly defined the word free should be. (its free----no it isnt--- yes it is---...) let this thread die the death it should have had when it first began. i will not be back to this thread so if anyone wants to gripe at me over this post better try a pm or email. later gators i'm going to go read snake stories and look at snake pics, jim
mind reading

Hi Gregg,

I find it interesting you know what Rich was "thinking" when talking about donation...got any mind reading powers? :D