not happy

[Gregg]

No, I'm not a mind reader.

Like the rest of you, I appreciate having this site to come to and share knowledge. Rich has done a great service for us, but even he will admit that it isn't free. He is having trouble keeping it alive. He has asked for our help. I have sent what I can, considering I make very little, but it won't be enough to save this site. And, though Ken Harbart might cringe at this (sorry Ken), I agree 100% with what he said in his statement above.

I have never said that Rich was "wrong," or that he was being "unfair." What I have said expresses what I felt on a gut level when I read what Rich wrote. Even a fool can see that, eventually, Rich will either have to close this site, because it is costing him too much too keep it alive on his own, or he will have to ask us to start paying the bill for it. A "mind reader?" No. Rich has been saying this all along, since he opened this new forum format.

What pisses me off is the fact that the vast majority of people don't think on there own. They would rather follow a leader who thinks for them. These people will always band together to jump on those individuals who do not agree with the majority--the "Herd," if you will. They are quick to crucify, slow to ask why. I guess because it makes them look righteous, or something. It also sickens me to see people mindlessly jump onto a bandwagon, without any thought regarding their actions, and then turn critical of those who can, and do think on their own. So, I jump in and start defending the anti-social position so it can get heard. Perhaps it's a Sixties hold-over attitude.

Anyway, I love this site. I would love to see it stay FREE, but it isn't free. Rich pays for it--always has. Now, he says he cannot pay for it any longer. He needs us to pay for it. He has been saying that this day might come ever since he opened this new fangled site board. Some will not like having to pay, some will not mind paying. If someone doesn't want to pay, big deal, let 'em go. People should be able to vote with their feet and not be criticised. If Rich has to, or decides he wants to, charge for this site, then that is something we will all have to live with and come to our own decisions as to whether or not we want, or can, continue being "Members" of this site.

Besides, I just love stirring up a hornets nest.

 

[Mare]

Interesting...

How heated things get when a few individuals are brave enough to voice an opinion that goes against the main stream!

I can understand the arguments on both sides but am perplexed as to why there even needs to be an argument!

Sheep? Guess so... I come here like a thirsty lamb to the trough every day...

Gregg... me thinks that deep down in your heart of pagen hearts, you enjoy a little rebelion now and then... a man after my own heart!

I love this forum and hope it survives...

Mare

 

[hurricane1]

Rich has helped all of us by providing this great site at his expense. I would be more than happy to donate if I had some extra money. It is totally fair to ask for donations. Asking for donations does not take the free part away from this site at all.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting mad at somebody else for asking for help. I support Rich on asking for donations, I think it's a good idea. If you don't like the idea, keep your mouth shut.

Some people are really ungrateful and well...I guess some people are just more generous than others and some people are just penny-pinching a**holes.

 

[kenalotia]

Re: No, I'm not a mind reader.

Some will not like having to pay, some will not mind paying. If someone doesn't want to pay, big deal, let 'em go.

While I agree with most of what you said, Gregg, I disagree with the above... Like someone pointed out earlier, there are a number of people here who really can't pay. We have several teenagers on this site, and some kids even younger. And some of us adults, unfortunately, are practically broke due to various circumstances. Big deal, let all of us go?

 

[Ken Harbart]

And, though Ken Harbart might cringe at this (sorry Ken), I agree 100% with what he said in his statement above.

No cringing here Gregg. Although we may not see eye to eye, I respect the fact that, unlike the originator of this thread, you have conviction and integrity.

 

[Gregg]

You're right, Mare.

Sometimes I cannot help trying to start trouble. "Fire burn and cauldron bubble." I think it all started when my Grandparents told my parents that they thought I was possessed by the devil and needed to 'be saved.' My father was convinced when he found me standing in front of him with a rattlesnake in my hands and he felt compelled to shoot it with a .38 cal, snub-nose. That was when I was about 9, I think. It was before I got my own rifle and that was when I was 10. Man, I cried so hard for that snake. You can see I still haven't forgiven him for shooting it. It was harmless.
My mother was--and still is--deathly afraid of snakes, and I used that to my advantage growing up. She was always going through my stuff, so, one day, I started putting pictures of Rattlesnakes in my notebook and rubber snakes in all my drawers. After a few screams, she stopped intruding.

To this day, my family still believes I'm possessed by the devil and that I am to end up in hell eventually. My having and loving snakes is a sure sign to them that they are correct. Of course, I told them that, were I to wake up after death and fine myself surrounded for as far as I could see by christians, then I would be in hell.

>But wait a minute, that happens to me now! Hey, what's up with that?<

If the vast majority of people go right, I'll go left. It drives my wife crazy and any would be friends away, but it's The Path, if you catch my drift. Take the thorny path--or the one covered in well covered ferns--but leave the wide, well trodden one alone. (Why? Too many ticks, I suppose.)


Oh, and Kenalotia, re-read what I said. I said "...doesn't want...," not "cannot afford" to pay. Of course, if they cannot, they shouldn't be forced to do so. My point (at the start of this thread) was: If a person doesn't want to pay, then leave them alone, that's their right also. By the way, I make somewhere between $25.00 and $85.00 a week--depending on the week--and I sent my tithe in to Rome...not much, but I paid...moo, bleet, hiss (wait a minute, snakes aren't herd animals. Silly me.).

If Rich decided tomorrow to make this a "pay-for-play" site, I'd scrape up the money to pay, just so I could be "a gad-fly" to quote Socretes.

 

[Rich Z]

First off, what in the world is this type of thread doing in the Husbandry and Basic Care Forum? I had no idea this conversation was even taking place. Believe me, I had my hands full with other issues.

But be that as it may, I am sorry that some people took offense at what I asked of this site. My request was actually more targeted towards spurring some people into considering a banner ad rather than the actual donation part of it. You would think that with all of the cornsnakes breeders in the U.S.A. alone, there would be a few that would think that having a banner ad on this site might give them some exposure to die hard corn snake enthusiasts. Wouldn't you? Or am I missing something here.

Probably some of you are aware of this, but most of you are not. The FaunaClassifeds site is what pays for THIS site and the server it is running on. For a while there a couple of days ago, I thought I was going to have to choose between the FaunaClassifieds forum, THIS forum, or spending more money to upgrade my server. With the advertising revenue falling off, this was presenting me with a situation where any choice I made would be unpleasant. Fortunately I discovered that it was an errant program process running on my server that was slowing things down so much, so I didn't have to decide between one of the three choices listed above.

I had mentioned to several people my concerns about advertisers on the FaunaClassifieds site dropping out claiming business has been slow, and I wasn't sure that enough were going to remain in order to be able to continue covering the bill I have to pay to lease my server. It was suggested by several people that I consider requesting donations. Now I have had that said to me EVER SINCE I first set up the HerpWantads.com site 2+ years ago. But I always resisted that idea, thinking it seemed kind of tacky. But to be honest about it, things were looking pretty grim with the advertisers, so I had to reconsider my stance somewhat. I thought I would give it a try, but really suspected that to most people, it would go in one ear and out the other.

Since the FaunaClassifieds site is much more business oriented, I made up the plea for donations strictly for that site. It was only a brief quirk of my thought processes that made me even think about the CornSnakes.com site at all. But I figured, heck, it can't hurt. And it surprised me quite a bit to see this thread on THIS site rather than on FaunaClassifieds. Pretty unbelievable, actually. You would think my announcement had a video of me biting off the head of a live corn snake or something. Gosh, what an ogre I have become!

Where did everyone get the idea that I OWE everyone this site? I actually set it up originally in self defense to try to deflect all of the emails I was getting asking the questions you all now see in this forum. I just couldn't spend all the time needed to answer an email where someone is in panic mode because their corn snake won't eat. Multiply that by HUNDREDS of people during the summer months. And since they sent an email, they didn't see the answer I gave to the first one I got. How many times could YOU do something like that without it gettind old real fast?

So I figured a message board would help take some of the pressure off of me, and when those sorts of questions get asked, then answered, that information will be here for people to search for. That leaves me free to jump in on the occasional thread that I might find of interest. Certainly no one here expects me to make a comment on each and every thread. I don't have that kind of time to put into it.

Yes it is fun setting up something like this, and fun watching threads develop and information being shared. But OWE it to you? How so?

So back to the point of this. I put this forum together for you all to use. However, I am paying for the server and I had to buy the license for this message board software that is running these forums. I NEVER asked a single person for a single dime.

Yet when things were beginning to look a bit dicey about the possibility that I might have to suddenly be footing the entire bill for the server that this and my other sites run on (and how many of YOU would donate $2,500+ per year for everyone else's benefit?), I felt maybe I should ask for a little help to get me over this hump in the road I see coming. And I have been providing free message boards for HOW long now? I think maybe it was 1997 when I put up my first messge board on my SerpenCo.com site. So here I have been offering this sort of thing for around 5 years, and when I finally ask for help, some of you get your panties in a wad. One person is so crushed that they say they are never coming back here. (and no, I really don't give a hoot who this person is).

Get real. The only site I really need to run is my SerpenCo.com site. I can put that on a standard web hosting service that will give me everything I need for about $15 per month. When I first set up CornSnakes.com, that's what I had it set up on, so I was shelling out $180 per year to provide the original messge board there to you all. Heck, that's not enough to worry about. But the scenario is quite different now when I am talking about serious pocket money for that server. And if I ever get into a financial crunch and have to find ways to cut expenses, yes Virgina, this site may get flushed in order for me to have the money needed to care for my animals, or for me and my wife to live on. That would be a no brainer decision for me.

Even with the advertising revenues that FaunaClassifieds has been bringing in, I am STILL operating this all in the red. So when it looks like the needle is swinging over from me losing a little bit of money, to me losing a LOT of money, I'm sorry, I like running these sites and all, but I like to eat and have a roof over my head a LOT more.

Like it or not, this site is OPTIONAL to me. I have absolutely nothing to lose by someone saying they are never coming back here. And I could not care less that someone wants to moan about how the definition of *free site* has now and forever been tainted by my plea for donations. If any one of you 'injured parties' think you can walk around in my shoes, and the decisions you would have had to make are so much better, then have at it. Start up your own message board and start paying some bills instead of riding your bike down to the library to use the free internet access there. When YOU have money coming out of your pockets for the use of other people whom demand that you give it to them for free or else they will stamp their feet at you, see how well you wear those shoes.

News Flash: This site isn't free for ME. Why do some of you DEMAND that it MUST be free for YOU? Show me where THAT rule is written.

Oh yeah, when I get a chance, I'm going to move this thread down into my SerpenCo section where it belongs. I guess poor 'former reader' left in such a rush and such a huff that he/she did not read the proper forum labels correctly. Heck yeah, give Rich more work to do on the way out while you are at it. He doesn't mind. After all it's a FREE site, isn't it? And his time is FREE, isn't it?

Time to start biting my tongue and go off to bed..............

 

[Alicia]

I hope that things improve so that this site can stay. Business decisions are not always popular I don't agree with "Former Reader", I will come and visit this site as long as it's up and running. I do hope that advertising picks up, but I have to say that donations are a good idea too. I don't have a formal business or web site to advertise but I would like to contribute.

Maybe it's the bump on the head I received or my overly simplistic view, but I haven't been charged to look at this site So it's still free.

Well, I've had my tea and the frost is off the grass so I'm off to do some grazing

 

[Gregg]

I took no offense at what you said, Rich. I also do not believe that you "OWE" me this site. I thank you very much for this site and when you asked for financial help, I sent it.

When I read what Former Reader wrote, I thought, "Gee, Sore loser." As I read the other people's posts I was moved to defend that person for their position. It sounded to me, from the other people's comments, that they were beginning to gang up on her/him. I don't like gangs.

That being said: I will admit that I may have mis-read what you have been writing since you opened this new site--that being:
1) This site isn't free.
2) It is paid for by you, out-of-pocket, and through FaunaClassified.
3) If you don't get financial help for this site, you'll drop it like a bad habit.
4) You'd prefer for advertisers to support this site, but, if push comes to shove, you'd ask us.
5) You asked us.

ergo: I assumed--yes, I know you're not supposed to--that the day was here for us to come forward and pay for the site we love so much.

And yes, I don't like having to pay bills anymore than anyone else, and I'm not wrong, or evil, for complaining when I have to. Haven't you been doing the same thing? Or have I been mis-reading you again?

I really appreciate you having gone to the trouble to create this site. I remember the old one and it really sucked when I compare it to this one. I'm glad we don't have to pay a fee, or become a member, to visit this site, but as I have stated above, if it came to that, I would pay up. Would you be an Ogre for asking us to pay? No. I just wouldn't like to have to. That's all. No big deal. And piss on those who would argue that I shouldn't complain if I do have to pay.

Sorry if I wasn't totally clear on my point folks.

 

[Kaz]

I would just like to thank Rich for creating this wonderful site. I will be donating a few pounds (dollars) when my other half next gets paid, because wihtout this site there would be a lot of unanswered questions, and a lot more worried owners.

Anyone who agrees with 'former reader' in my opinion doesn't deserve to use this site!

Chin up Rich, and thanks for all your hard work.

 

[abell82]

Rich,
First I would like to thank you, for making such a wonderful site.Second I would like to ask "Why aren't more people willing to advertise on this forum?"I mean IF I were a big(or even little) time breeder I would think that exposure on a site like this would be great! So where is Cornutopia,South Mountain,South Wisconsin,VMS, and all the others?This is what I have been wondering not "How can he ask for donations!"

 

[Rachel]

Ok,
When I first read this post I thought 'Why the hell is it in this section?' and like Gregg thought that the elusive former reader is one helluva sore loser BUT I was amazed by the response you guys put up! I mean I know alot of people here are quick to damn the different but Christ...I'm sure glad I haven't posted verging from the norm! I think that this is what Gregg was originally trying to say (maybe I'm wrong...I'm no mind reader ).
The thing is, I thought this was supposed to be a friendly site. I know that it is hard to put across your tone of voice on the net but guys...lighten up! If one person answered the post saying 'look former reader, stop being a jerk! If you dont want to pay then so be it but dont blame rich blah blah blah' but for ALL of you to totally jump on this guy is kinda cruel. Now I dont agree with him at all but also I dont think whats happening here is proper net ettiquette!!
What I'm trying to say is be firendly happy people deep breath....aaaaannnnd release. Next time just count to 10, don't let posts like this get you so wound up, its not healthy!!

ps (cant wait to see what u have in store for me now !

 

[Alicia]

but for ALL of you to totally jump on this guy is kinda cruel. Now I dont agree with him at all but also I dont think whats happening here is proper net ettiquette!!

Well, If my saying I don't agree with Former Reader is "jumping" on him/her, then guilty as charged. I guess I didn't realize that proper net ettiquette included only a select few who can disagree.

I must also be careful not to agree with anyone or I'm added to the ranks of mindless herd animals

 

[Rainey]

I am very thankful for this site and will gladly help support it. I however am not going to donate. Soon, I would like to design a site for myself and then I will buy an advertising spot.

Rich, I understand where you're coming from and what you're asking. Thanks!

 

[dartguy]

GREGG - READ THIS

all of this anger because a guy who has been paying for a message board say s " hey guys, advertising is down- could ya help me out? a couple bucks to get me over the hump?"

Gregg (i can address YOU beacuse I do have "huevos"

IMO, you are worse than anyone on tihis post and here is why -
You have stated that the paople upset with the original post are too quick to attack. well my friend you have been attacking them all - and with more anger, name calling, steroetyping and more.

I get offended not by a guy saying "hey I need some help, IF YOU CAN" but when someone lumps me into a group simply because I agree with the "MAJORITY"

What pisses me off is the fact that the vast majority of people don't think on there own. They would rather follow a leader who thinks for them. These people will always band together to jump on those individuals who do not agree with the majority--the "Herd," if you will. They are quick to crucify, slow to ask why. I guess because it makes them look righteous, or something. It also sickens me to see people mindlessly jump onto a bandwagon, without any thought regarding their actions, and then turn critical of those who can, and do think on their own. So, I jump in and start defending the anti-social position so it can get heard. Perhaps it's a Sixties hold-over attitude.

or

someone who doesn't fall right into line with the rest of the cows/sheep/herd animals who graze here.

and more. I do not disagree with you BECAUSE you are not in the majority. I disagree because, to me, it seems

1st you are truly motivated by just being different

I jump in and start defending the anti-social position so it can get heard

2nd you are "jumping on the individuals" (which is exactly what you say you don't like) for voicing their opinion ( which is what you SAY you're trying to protect)

IMO - when you start name calling and steroetyping - it sounds more hypocritical and less about prtecting opinion.

BY THE WAY - i CANT FIND ANY WHERE ON THIS SITE THAT IT SAYS
CORNSNAKESFREE.COM OR CORNSANKESFREE FORUM.COM

WHERE DOES IT SAY THIS SITE IS FREE?

sorry for my rant - I don't like being called a sheep - or lumped into some group you percieve is out there

 

[Rainey]

Holy Cow!

Why can't we all just get along???

J/k

But seriously, this is a cornsnake forum, not a sheep forum or a wolf forum or a boxing ring! We're all here cuz of one single bond. We love cornsnakes!

This is ridiculous, all of this name calling and defending and opposing. I'm not going to take sides. I love this site and I love how friendly everyone is (generally).

I think Rich gave a good explanation of what is up with him and his reasons why he did what he did. I think we can either oppose it or go along with it or ignore it. But if you're going to oppose it, why do you have to cause a split? I hate sides and especially on something that is so trivial.

Can we end this soon?

 

[Rachel]

Well, If my saying I don't agree with Former Reader is "jumping" on him/her, then guilty as charged. I guess I didn't realize that proper net ettiquette included only a select few who can disagree.

I must also be careful not to agree with anyone or I'm added to the ranks of mindless herd animals

Alicia, I never said that you couldn't disagree with his views. I certainly don't but I think the way the responses have hurled in (and not very nice ones at that) are unnecessary. Fair enough, say your point...tell him the way it is or the way you see it but this whole post has been a bit umm harsh.
Thats all I was saying, I think we should read posts properly before jumping down peoples throats. And before anyone goes rag at me for saying that I'm not directing it at anyone in particular. Read my previous post and you will realise that I do not agree with Former reader but neither am I going to start a slagging match with him!

Oh and Alicia...I dont think you are amongst the 'select few' who disagree. The whole reason I replied to this is because its the majority condemning this guy for posting a view, albeit and unfounded one.

 

[FlyinHerper]

hmmm

Hey guys.

Well, I was as surprised to read all this as anyone else. I too want to thank Rich. THIS SITE IS A LOT OF FUN . Learning and sharing knowledge about Guttata! I say we leave the arguements about economics, politics, anger, and debate off this site and go back to posting pictures of newly accquired magnificent corns. This is the cornsnake forum, right? . I think former's post was between him and Rich... So, any new Crimson pics?

 

[Rainey]

Haha

Amen FlyinHerper! Amen!

Preach it Brotha!

I totally agree, speaking of postings, anyone got some nice caramels??? Maybe motley pattern...

 

[Missymonkey]

Wheew

Ok now that everyone has vented some of their emotions, why don't we put our heads together and think of a way we can help Rich get this forum sponsored or some thing like that so that it costs none of us anything. This forum is filled with ingenious people with a wide variety of backgrounds and experiances. With all of us thinking together I am sure we can come up with some feesable soluntions....

What do you guys think? Who would like to sponsor this site? HOw can we make this forum truely free for everybody?

Bake sales at Wal-Mart every tuesday?

But seriously, do you guys have any ideas?