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Okeetee and Creamsicle?
- Thread starter Tormoni
- Start date
DdotSpot
The Snewbie
Welcome to the forums Tormoni! Sit back and relax and watch your thread get off topic quick :-/
It looks like the petstores were right on with your cornsnakes, they look to be an Okeetee and a Creamsicle. Good looking ones too.
Hediki...I wish you wouldn't be so quick to jump down someones throat about their husbandry practices on their very first post...I might give your critism a little more thought IF you actually owned a cornsnake. Phew, feels good to finally get that out...
Having said that, I will have to painfully agree that you might want to re-evaluate using sand, its harmful to the snakes if it is ingested.
It looks like the petstores were right on with your cornsnakes, they look to be an Okeetee and a Creamsicle. Good looking ones too.
Hediki...I wish you wouldn't be so quick to jump down someones throat about their husbandry practices on their very first post...I might give your critism a little more thought IF you actually owned a cornsnake. Phew, feels good to finally get that out...
Having said that, I will have to painfully agree that you might want to re-evaluate using sand, its harmful to the snakes if it is ingested.
Had1nowwant1
New member
i dont mean to be rude but you can even see in the picture that the sand is on the pinkie that the creamsicle is eating. I would switch to Aspen substrate, paper towel, or bark ASAP. Also feeding in a seperate container is the safest thing to do regarding ingesting substrate.
Sorry i cant help about the morph of your snake because i dont have my morphs down yet. Especially with hatchlings.
Sorry i cant help about the morph of your snake because i dont have my morphs down yet. Especially with hatchlings.
Agree
I could not agree more with Dotspot. Newbies do get flamed quickly which should not be the case. I would suggest cruising this site and you can find everything you want to know about snakes. There are some real snake people here and their only interest is in the snakes we all keep. There are also books available that can help you. I have learned a lot from this site as you can too. Welcome.
I could not agree more with Dotspot. Newbies do get flamed quickly which should not be the case. I would suggest cruising this site and you can find everything you want to know about snakes. There are some real snake people here and their only interest is in the snakes we all keep. There are also books available that can help you. I have learned a lot from this site as you can too. Welcome.
Tormoni
New member
Thanks for all the info, The pet store recommended this substrate. I would like to clarify what it is you are seeing as my substrate, it's not plain sand...
******************************************************
($11 for 5lbs)
Brand: T-Rex
Bone Aid Calci-Sand (pure natrual calcium carbonate substrate)
Pure Calcium Carbonate
Increased Digestibility
Reduced Impactablity
Beneficial When Eaten
High contrast color for easy spot cleaning
Enhances natural colors
******************
(verbatim as it reads on the back of the package)
T-REX calci-Sand is a fine granular calciferous sand specially prepared to be the ideal reptile cage substrate for snakes, lizards, tortoises, and turtles.
T-REX calci-sand is the only substrate for reptiles designed to be not only ingestible, but digestible when swallowed. Many reptiles freely eat particles of sand ond other substrates in an effort to gain the calcium that they require. T-REX calcisand allows this process to occur naturally in the vivarium.
T-REX calcisand (being mineral) is safe in direct contact with heating elements. It conducts heat well and is suitable for use with heat mats or cables buried under it to a shallow depth. It does not harbor mites nor the growth of molds or fungus.
T-REX calcisand is available in six colors, Chocolate Brown, Red Rock, Natural White, Blue, Green, and Black. All colors are created with FDA approved natrual food colorants.
********************************************************
Now, what was that you were saying about my substrate? After reading this, I think I will stick with what I have. I think it might be safe to feed them in substrate also...the substrate you are seeing is the normal Natural White. I also have another bag of the similar calci-sand, but it also glows in the dark. I havn't used it yet though.
Any other suggestions for a newbie would be appreciated,
Tormoni
******************************************************
($11 for 5lbs)
Brand: T-Rex
Bone Aid Calci-Sand (pure natrual calcium carbonate substrate)
Pure Calcium Carbonate
Increased Digestibility
Reduced Impactablity
Beneficial When Eaten
High contrast color for easy spot cleaning
Enhances natural colors
******************
(verbatim as it reads on the back of the package)
T-REX calci-Sand is a fine granular calciferous sand specially prepared to be the ideal reptile cage substrate for snakes, lizards, tortoises, and turtles.
T-REX calci-sand is the only substrate for reptiles designed to be not only ingestible, but digestible when swallowed. Many reptiles freely eat particles of sand ond other substrates in an effort to gain the calcium that they require. T-REX calcisand allows this process to occur naturally in the vivarium.
T-REX calcisand (being mineral) is safe in direct contact with heating elements. It conducts heat well and is suitable for use with heat mats or cables buried under it to a shallow depth. It does not harbor mites nor the growth of molds or fungus.
T-REX calcisand is available in six colors, Chocolate Brown, Red Rock, Natural White, Blue, Green, and Black. All colors are created with FDA approved natrual food colorants.
********************************************************
Now, what was that you were saying about my substrate? After reading this, I think I will stick with what I have. I think it might be safe to feed them in substrate also...the substrate you are seeing is the normal Natural White. I also have another bag of the similar calci-sand, but it also glows in the dark. I havn't used it yet though.
Any other suggestions for a newbie would be appreciated,
Tormoni
DdotSpot
The Snewbie
Read this: http://www.pythons.com/calcium.html
Taceas
USW = UB313
Welcome to the forum! And congrats on your snake purchases.
Yes, it would be nice if some people didn't jump down a newbie's throat for an obvious error we can all see. It would be nicer if they'd be polite about it and offer countering suggestions on a better alternative. If they obviously quote in their signature that they're "still learning", try learning some tact and people skills before jumping feet-first into things.
And Ddot, you're the man. =P
Tormoni, corn snakes do not belong on sand of any sort. They are not a desert species, and sand can cause a lot of nasty and expensive health problems. And from seeing sand already stuck on the mouse pink of the one in the picture, that's just the beginning.
What the back of the bag says is basically anything to get you to buy the product. They're in the market to make money, not for your pet's health. And T-rex is about the only reptile company I refuse to buy even lightbulbs from, that's how little I think of them.
I would recommend you remove the sand as soon as possible and switch to a wood substrate. Aspen is what most of us use. It's relatively cheap, free of odor, easy to clean, and it looks nice. Even newspaper or paper towels are fully acceptable, even though they're not as pretty. Some people even use Carefresh (recycled paper) or Bed-A-Beast (coconut thingies). Just remember, no cedar or pine. The oils that smell nice to us, are harmful to the respiratory systems of smaller animals.
Housing them together is also another thing up for debate. Some people do it with good success, and some people have really tragic results (search for cannibalism).
For me, my snakes seem stressed out enough when just together for picture taking, and I can't imagine forcing them to be "happy" together on a 24/7 basis. Just because they don't visibly fight doesn't mean they don't like one another. Snakes are by habit a solitary creature, and usually try to get as far from one another as possible. Unless its that time of the year. Snakes aren't mice or other such pets, they don't crave each other's companionship and always want to cuddle. If that's what you're looking for in a pet, then snakes aren't for you, and get some gerbils.
Also, if the snakes get old enough and are still housed together, and are of the opposite sex, accidental breeding will occur and problems can arise if you're not prepared financially or otherwise.
Feeding in the enclosure is something that's usually frowned upon for several reasons in your instance.
#1: Associates the lid opening and your hand entering with food. One time when you're reaching in to get your snake out, it'll think it's meal time and bite.
#2: Since you've got the nasty sand, and say that you want to keep it (for now), you risk ingestion and impaction of the gut. Calcium in that big of chunks would be hard for a tiny snake to digest fully and pass with no problems at all. I wouldn't even recommend that sand to house desert species on. Like I said earlier, the company is out to make money by charging $11 for a bag of calcium sand. When you could spend $8 on a huge bale of aspen that lasts for months.
#3: Since you've got your snakes together, you risk cannibalization by accident. When you eat spaghetti, you get sauce around your mouth that you lick off. While you can't smell it, its still there, even if you can't see it. Snakes can't lick their mouths off, and if you've fed both in their home and then one decides its still hungry, and finds its roommate and clamps down on what it thinks is a mouse and starts to swallow, you've got a problem.
Most of us remove the snakes from their home and feed them in a separate container. And if you're still insistent on housing them together, let them sit in their separate feeding containers for over an hour before adding them back to their home together. That should give plenty of time for the smell to wear off and hopefully avoid an accident.
Words to the wise:
One must think of the future when buying pets. Whats small and cute now quickly grows to fill a cage. Just research on here all that you can, buy Kathy Love's book and read, read, read. Ask questions, no matter how silly. We're all here to help. You've been given good advice by myself and others, I hope that you consider it, some if not all.
No one is judging you, we're just wishing that you didn't go to a petstore that 'recommended' potentially hazardous things for your snakes.
Yes, it would be nice if some people didn't jump down a newbie's throat for an obvious error we can all see. It would be nicer if they'd be polite about it and offer countering suggestions on a better alternative. If they obviously quote in their signature that they're "still learning", try learning some tact and people skills before jumping feet-first into things.
And Ddot, you're the man. =P
Tormoni, corn snakes do not belong on sand of any sort. They are not a desert species, and sand can cause a lot of nasty and expensive health problems. And from seeing sand already stuck on the mouse pink of the one in the picture, that's just the beginning.
What the back of the bag says is basically anything to get you to buy the product. They're in the market to make money, not for your pet's health. And T-rex is about the only reptile company I refuse to buy even lightbulbs from, that's how little I think of them.
I would recommend you remove the sand as soon as possible and switch to a wood substrate. Aspen is what most of us use. It's relatively cheap, free of odor, easy to clean, and it looks nice. Even newspaper or paper towels are fully acceptable, even though they're not as pretty. Some people even use Carefresh (recycled paper) or Bed-A-Beast (coconut thingies). Just remember, no cedar or pine. The oils that smell nice to us, are harmful to the respiratory systems of smaller animals.
Housing them together is also another thing up for debate. Some people do it with good success, and some people have really tragic results (search for cannibalism).
For me, my snakes seem stressed out enough when just together for picture taking, and I can't imagine forcing them to be "happy" together on a 24/7 basis. Just because they don't visibly fight doesn't mean they don't like one another. Snakes are by habit a solitary creature, and usually try to get as far from one another as possible. Unless its that time of the year. Snakes aren't mice or other such pets, they don't crave each other's companionship and always want to cuddle. If that's what you're looking for in a pet, then snakes aren't for you, and get some gerbils.
Also, if the snakes get old enough and are still housed together, and are of the opposite sex, accidental breeding will occur and problems can arise if you're not prepared financially or otherwise.
Feeding in the enclosure is something that's usually frowned upon for several reasons in your instance.
#1: Associates the lid opening and your hand entering with food. One time when you're reaching in to get your snake out, it'll think it's meal time and bite.
#2: Since you've got the nasty sand, and say that you want to keep it (for now), you risk ingestion and impaction of the gut. Calcium in that big of chunks would be hard for a tiny snake to digest fully and pass with no problems at all. I wouldn't even recommend that sand to house desert species on. Like I said earlier, the company is out to make money by charging $11 for a bag of calcium sand. When you could spend $8 on a huge bale of aspen that lasts for months.
#3: Since you've got your snakes together, you risk cannibalization by accident. When you eat spaghetti, you get sauce around your mouth that you lick off. While you can't smell it, its still there, even if you can't see it. Snakes can't lick their mouths off, and if you've fed both in their home and then one decides its still hungry, and finds its roommate and clamps down on what it thinks is a mouse and starts to swallow, you've got a problem.
Most of us remove the snakes from their home and feed them in a separate container. And if you're still insistent on housing them together, let them sit in their separate feeding containers for over an hour before adding them back to their home together. That should give plenty of time for the smell to wear off and hopefully avoid an accident.
Words to the wise:
One must think of the future when buying pets. Whats small and cute now quickly grows to fill a cage. Just research on here all that you can, buy Kathy Love's book and read, read, read. Ask questions, no matter how silly. We're all here to help. You've been given good advice by myself and others, I hope that you consider it, some if not all.
No one is judging you, we're just wishing that you didn't go to a petstore that 'recommended' potentially hazardous things for your snakes.
DdotSpot
The Snewbie
Taceas said:
No Misty.....YOU'RE the man!!
Oh wait...
Thanks for the great post, I've been too tired to type that long lately, I'm glad you took the time to do it! Great advice btw.
Here's a good thread by Kathy to read when considering cohabitation: Click Here!!
Last edited:
CornCrazy
What's one more???
Daniel and Misty...it seems as if you have this under control! Good job!
They are both right...sand can definitely cause impaction...especially in species that are not adapted to living on it. In addition to causing impaction, the sand is also VERY drying and irritating to the skin/scales of the snake. This is going to cause problems when it is time for your snakes to shed.
I have learned first hand about problems with sand. I lost 3 snakes...Kenyan Sand Boas...to impaction. I didn't even feed them on the sand. They ingested enough to become impacted simply by moving through it. I will never use it again!
Also, there are some other good reasons why it is best to NOT house them together.
I hope this helps you to make an informed decision regarding your new pets. Just realize that MOST pet stores that sell reptiles do not have staff that is knowledgeable regarding the care of reptiles. They know they sell certain items labeled for reptiles and so they assume that those products are safe to use. That's a bad assumption to make!
Good luck and welcome to the forums!
P.S. - I guess I had more to say than I thought I would!
They are both right...sand can definitely cause impaction...especially in species that are not adapted to living on it. In addition to causing impaction, the sand is also VERY drying and irritating to the skin/scales of the snake. This is going to cause problems when it is time for your snakes to shed.
I have learned first hand about problems with sand. I lost 3 snakes...Kenyan Sand Boas...to impaction. I didn't even feed them on the sand. They ingested enough to become impacted simply by moving through it. I will never use it again!
Also, there are some other good reasons why it is best to NOT house them together.
- You risk the chance of disease transmission. If one of the snakes gets sick, the other one probably will, too.
- You also risk them breeding at too early of an age. This can lead to egg-binding in a female which can be fatal.
- If you have 2 males, then you risk aggression toward each other during "breeding" season.
- If one of them regurges or has diarrhea, then it can be harder to determine who is having the problem.
I hope this helps you to make an informed decision regarding your new pets. Just realize that MOST pet stores that sell reptiles do not have staff that is knowledgeable regarding the care of reptiles. They know they sell certain items labeled for reptiles and so they assume that those products are safe to use. That's a bad assumption to make!
Good luck and welcome to the forums!
P.S. - I guess I had more to say than I thought I would!
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
Hi there, Welcome to the forum. As Terri said, looks like you are getting some very good advice. I too highly suggest the removal of the sand as soon as possible. There are many deadly reasons NOT to use any type of sand products and sure would have been a shame for you to find that out the hard way. I used to use newspaper (for the large containers) and paper towels (for the small ones) but tried Aspen and have been using that ever since. I love the stuff. It's not expensive and is easy to spot clean.
Make sure if you decide go to the pet store to get it, that you get Aspen and NOT any of the pine product ones, pine is no good for your snake at all.
Looks to me like you got what the pet store said, an Okeetee and a Creamsicle. Hope you enjoy hanging around with us crazy folks. :crazy02: lol
Make sure if you decide go to the pet store to get it, that you get Aspen and NOT any of the pine product ones, pine is no good for your snake at all.
Looks to me like you got what the pet store said, an Okeetee and a Creamsicle. Hope you enjoy hanging around with us crazy folks. :crazy02: lol
JTGoff69
New member
Awesome post Misty! :cheers:
Ddot, CornCrazy, and Gardenmum have also given you some excellent tips. When you look for aspen, if you are shopping at PetSmart, you can find it in the small animal/rodent aisle under the brand name Kaytee in large bales for $7. That should last you at least 6 months.
I would watch the little guys and make SURE they poo after ingesting that calci sand. Some of those granules are pretty large for a tiny body like that to try to pass.
Just curious, but why (addressing the above mentioned members) does that creamsicle look like an amel to me? I've seen orange and white creamsicles, and ones with redder coloration and white, but I've not seen any with both red and orange? :shrugs: Terri or Dianne, can you post a pic if you have one like that? (I know both of you keep creams) I'd love to see one. I never really cared for creamsicles with the colors I've seen, but this one is really striking. :crazy02:
Ddot, CornCrazy, and Gardenmum have also given you some excellent tips. When you look for aspen, if you are shopping at PetSmart, you can find it in the small animal/rodent aisle under the brand name Kaytee in large bales for $7. That should last you at least 6 months.
I would watch the little guys and make SURE they poo after ingesting that calci sand. Some of those granules are pretty large for a tiny body like that to try to pass.
Just curious, but why (addressing the above mentioned members) does that creamsicle look like an amel to me? I've seen orange and white creamsicles, and ones with redder coloration and white, but I've not seen any with both red and orange? :shrugs: Terri or Dianne, can you post a pic if you have one like that? (I know both of you keep creams) I'd love to see one. I never really cared for creamsicles with the colors I've seen, but this one is really striking. :crazy02:
Geez, I don't know how I missed this one. 1st off welcome tormoni, where in Florida are you? Those are both nice lookers and I have to agree with the majority that they are indeed okeetee and creamsicle.
Jen, you have to remember that any responsible breeder will label their amels creamsicle if there is any Emoryi blood in them at all. I think the farther away from a 50/50 cross you get, the more reddish they are. Mine looks almost like a butter. Also there is a "look" to the top saddles in relationship to the side saddles IMO, and that snake has that emory look to it. :cheers:
Jen, you have to remember that any responsible breeder will label their amels creamsicle if there is any Emoryi blood in them at all. I think the farther away from a 50/50 cross you get, the more reddish they are. Mine looks almost like a butter. Also there is a "look" to the top saddles in relationship to the side saddles IMO, and that snake has that emory look to it. :cheers:
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
Kevin, I am sure they are not concerned one bit with Emory influence. And I am also sure they have no idea what "creamsicle" stands for in the corn world and that that particular one is not considered a "pure" corn. I would lay my money on the fact that they received X amount of corns in from wherever and the list said that they received X & X & X, so they labeled them accordingly. Their concern would only be in putting down what they were told from their order sheet at to what they got.
I know that the pet shop I sell my baby corns to had NO idea of morph names and I have had to educate them on that. They did, however, know the proper care set up for corns and what NOT to use as substrate and heat sources and such and what was proper to use, they just no knowledge on the various morph names. So, I always supply them with the names of the morph and a handout to go with said morph for the new owner. So, they label them as I tell them.
I am betting that this is how that pet shop did it also, but not by a breeder coming in to help them out but just from the stock slip they got and they just "THINK" they know how to care for them. Obviously they have NO clue as to the proper care of corns, which is a shame and gives ALL pet shops bad reputations.
That would be my theory on that, anyway.