Pet Rat Forums

[Sinsational]

So this is my rant...
I recently became part of a couple pet rat forums because I love this snake forum so much and everyone is really nice and helpful and provides lots of good advice.
Forum 1: Has someone giving out information that is based on personal experience as if it was fact. Something along the lines of you should house your snakes together. You won't have any problems. You should because they like company. Just because she has housed them together and hasn't had a problem. Now personally I feel this is totally wrong, and should be given out as an opinion and not fact.
The mod jumps in after editing a bunch of posts and says something along the lines of you are so stupid, you are wrong, and just because nothing has happened to you doesn't mean it wont. Thread Closed.

Aren't mods supposed to be setting an example of how to act on the forums?

Forum 2: Someone mentions that they bred one of their females to their male and were expecting some dumbo babies because mom is dumbo. I thought this was the case too, so I post asking if someone can explain why this isn't the case. Someone jumps down my throat calling me an irresponsible rat owner, and a back yard breeder, and tells me that I need to do my homework first and learn genetics before I breed, not after.
I have NEVER had any of my rats have babies. I am interested in breeding and was trying to learn more about the genetics. Who are they to call me an irresponsible owner when they know nothing about me!

Grrrr... Why can't all forums be as good as this one?

 

[Hallie]

...and that is why I stick to this forum and this forum only. I'm a member at a few other reptile related forums (boa related, for the most part), but rarely ever visit. I actually got into a fight with a mod over at another forum due to some post deleting and editing, and threads getting deleted when members started having discussions about things (not even arguing, just a nice civil debate). Nowhere else (that I've been) has such a great sense of 'community' and allows you to speak your mind. Stick around here, we like ya.

 

[starsevol]

I can say that while snakes are solitary animals, coming together only to breed, rats are extremely social. Scientists have recently discovered that a rat can identify up to 1000 individuals in their home colony, and that they can laugh. Rats can also suffer mental disorders from being kept alone, and I have seen rats mourn the death of a cagemate.

That said, I wish ALL forums were like this one!

 

[Hallie]

Rats can also suffer mental disorders from being kept alone, and I have seen rats mourn the death of a cagemate.

This happened when my Homer passed away. His cagemates were two of his sons and another male. One of the sons passed away within 2 weeks of his father passing, he just never recovered from the loss. They were very close, always shared a hammock and went to the food bowl together...he wasn't the same after his dad died (and neither was I, I still get upset when I think about it...luckily the 'other' male could tell and tried to fill that gap the Homer left, he became the best rattie a girl could ask for, even though he wasn't at all social before Homer's death). Le sigh, I need more ratties...

 

[Sinsational]

I totally agree with you Beth! I know when my rat passed away, her cage mate mourned her.

 

[Darcpixie]

That is why I stopped breeding rats. Had my own registered rattery and everything. But getting the genes you want is Impossible without being "mentored" by someone. When I already KNEW genetics and husbandry.

You need a dumbo carrier bred to a dumbo to get some dumbos, if you do not start with dumbo to dumbo.

It's like amel. Amel to normal will get normals het amel UNLESS your normal was a het amel in the original pair. Clear as mud?

I bred self dumbo American mink and R.E.D rats, with and without agouti. Mink has fun traits, making otherwise recessive genes express in het form. That, and Pearl!

Lol I miss my rats. But not the drama.

 

[Sinsational]

My husband and I are really interested in getting into breeding, but again can't find someone willing to mentor us, or a rattery willing to sell us pedigree stock.
So frustrating. The corn snake community doesn't seem like that at least! I think it is a bit crazy that they can dictate that you are not allowed to breed any rats purchased from a breeder.

 

[starsevol]

My husband and I are really interested in getting into breeding, but again can't find someone willing to mentor us, or a rattery willing to sell us pedigree stock.
So frustrating. The corn snake community doesn't seem like that at least! I think it is a bit crazy that they can dictate that you are not allowed to breed any rats purchased from a breeder.

I do agree with you, but I think I understand where they are coming from. Rats are probably the MOST abused animal out there, and there are no laws to protect them. People can do whatever they want to a rat, no matter how horrible and there is no penalty for it at all. There are people who have never even heard of them being kept as pets, and only see them as either vermin to be extermintated or snake food. Plus rats reproduce at an amazing rate, which makes finding homes (good pet homes) for a litter REALLY difficult. The fewer breeders out there, the fewer abused and abandoned rats, and the fewer rats left in the few shelters that won't kill them on sight.

At least with corns, a breeder can be reasonably sure that their hatchlings won't be fed live to a snapping turtle, or fed to something else, or mistreated in any way. I think rat people are just really protective over their chosen species, seeing as how the rest of "mankind" tends to treat that species....am I making sense?

 

[Darcpixie]

Honestly, your best bet would probably be to develop your own lines from healthy feeder stock.

It is SO EASY to breed rats, I think they just don't want competition.

And with as many rats as I had die from tumors or other ailments, I would PREFER healthy feeders as foundation stock. A good, solid lab/feeder group is probably going to be healthier then 8/10 pet rats.

At that point, you can outcross your fancy genes in. I mean goodness, bred a PEW to a Siamese, get Himalayans in the F1!

*sigh*

I don't know if I have the heart for their lifespans again. Or the VIOLENCE! I've had bad luck with rescue males mauling others. Blech.

 

[starsevol]

Honestly, your best bet would probably be to develop your own lines from healthy feeder stock.

It is SO EASY to breed rats, I think they just don't want competition.

And with as many rats as I had die from tumors or other ailments, I would PREFER healthy feeders as foundation stock. A good, solid lab/feeder group is probably going to be healthier then 8/10 pet rats.

At that point, you can outcross your fancy genes in. I mean goodness, bred a PEW to a Siamese, get Himalayans in the F1!

*sigh*

I don't know if I have the heart for their lifespans again. Or the VIOLENCE! I've had bad luck with rescue males mauling others. Blech.

The only trouble with this line of thinking is that most females develop tumors, and most rats born today carry Myco. These things tend to not show up until the rat is nearly too old to breed. By the time you know you have a really healthy one, it's too late!

I will probably keep rats forever, in spite of everything. Their short lifespans hurt, but they don't know how short their lives are! In their opinion, they live a long time! It hurts less when I think like a rat. 2 of our years is like 60 of theirs...when I lose one it hurts badly, but there is always another deserving baby out there who can use a good home, and in time I will bond with him/her.
Plus adult males really need to be introduced very slowly, or there can be problems. Aggression can usually be curbed with a neuter, and introducing babies to adults and neutered/spayed to each other seem to go the smoothest.

 

[Darcpixie]

There is so much inbreeding between breeders, though, Beth, that I worry about their health.

Honestly, this isn't like corns. They ARE communal. Require it. If you want to breed, for a specific purpose, you CAN keep all the males together and all the females together, in two big Martins cages (love those!) without problems. It's not like corns where seperate caging is required. And given that it is recommended for a first litter for the female to be between 6 and 12 months, your window is SO small to get a good male.

My only real solutions would be to ONLY breed the superfancy, dumbo pearl Merle Burmese or something equally rediculous, or breed ONLY for health and longevity as outcross stock. But you would need about 6 years to verify longevity of the line.

My biased, cynical, grumpy, annoyed out of the business opinion.

 

[ceduke]

My experience with the pet rat community has been similar. It's full of snobs (not everyone of course, but enough to make the forums not fun) and too hard to get the "serious" people to help out a newbie.

 

[Darcpixie]

Btw, Beth, mammory tumors would have been easier to stomach. Lung and kidney tumors, especially as a kidney tumor came one month after weaning her litter, were terrible.

 

[starsevol]

There is so much inbreeding between breeders, though, Beth, that I worry about their health.

Honestly, this isn't like corns. They ARE communal. Require it. If you want to breed, for a specific purpose, you CAN keep all the males together and all the females together, in two big Martins cages (love those!) without problems. It's not like corns where seperate caging is required. And given that it is recommended for a first litter for the female to be between 6 and 12 months, your window is SO small to get a good male.

My only real solutions would be to ONLY breed the superfancy, dumbo pearl Merle Burmese or something equally rediculous, or breed ONLY for health and longevity as outcross stock. But you would need about 6 years to verify longevity of the line.

My biased, cynical, grumpy, annoyed out of the business opinion.

Oh, I love Martins cages too!!
My 2 baby boys are in a 695 right now. The 2 girls (which I didnt expect to have) are in a Marchioro, but they also have a wheel. And I have a "my first home" or something like that from Petsmart that I use as a hospital cage that is currently housing my 2 old men. One of whom will be leaving me any day now.

 

[starsevol]

Btw, Beth, mammory tumors would have been easier to stomach. Lung and kidney tumors, especially as a kidney tumor came one month after weaning her litter, were terrible.

Yes, you are right. That is horrible. My experiance is mostly with mammory tumors. Spaying can help prevent both those and pituatary tumors, but my vet charges $200 per rat. I will be checking with a few more vets in the area when the time comes...

I am so sorry about your girl...that is really really hard.

 

[Darcpixie]

Beth, lol most of the rescue males were actually crazy. Bruxing, then biting through your finger. I had 4 male groups after a while, one with 3older males, one with a single giant grump, one with a male, his son, and an older decrepit male, and my 2 good freeroaming boys. They got along great with everyone, and would even come cuddle at night.

I had a GIANT cage with 15, yes, 15 females living together happily. I love females. They are HILARIOUS.

*sigh*

If only I could get some nice Fawn or Havana Agouti or Mink kiddos again. Oh well.

 

[Darcpixie]

I had a RUUD and two 695's and the big white cages from petsmart, the ones for hedgies. And some converted my first home ones. There are these great wire levels with a ramp you can buy seperately and add to those.

 

[Darcpixie]

Thanks Beth. It was the size of a ping pong ball. I had her necropsied, as she died within 24 hours of showing symptoms.

I believe Toyah breeds rats in the UK, hopefully it's better there LOL!

 

[starsevol]

Beth, lol most of the rescue males were actually crazy. Bruxing, then biting through your finger. I had 4 male groups after a while, one with 3older males, one with a single giant grump, one with a male, his son, and an older decrepit male, and my 2 good freeroaming boys. They got along great with everyone, and would even come cuddle at night.

I had a GIANT cage with 15, yes, 15 females living together happily. I love females. They are HILARIOUS.

*sigh*

If only I could get some nice Fawn or Havana Agouti or Mink kiddos again. Oh well.

I have only had 2 rescues. One was a black hooded male "Art Vandelay". He did bite and I could never introduce him to other males. I wouldn't say he was completely nuts though, he and I developed an understanding. And I adopted a pew spayed female "Bobbiesue", she was a sweetheart. A little standoffish but really sweet in her way.

I have mostly had males. 3 from a well respected breeder, the male and female rescue I mentioned, a female that was dropped off at my shop because the snake wasn't hungry and the kid knew i kept rats, and the rest were "just" feeders....
Since one of my males is about to leave us, last month I got 2 new feeder babies. I had wanted 2 males, and thought they were 2 males, but they ended up to be a male and a female.....so...of course I had to get another male and female so no one will have to be alone.

Right now I have 2 17 month olds Roosevelt (blue hooded) and Winchester (black hooded), Winchester is about to leave us though.....
And the babies, Marshmallow (pew female), Ruger (black female), Luger (black hooded male) and Remmington (pew male).

Of course my husband imposed a 3 rat limit years ago....well...

 

[Sinsational]

My husband and I currently have 8 rats. 3 males and 5 females. The females are
about 5 months old from a BYB -
Katie-Dumbo, Rex, russian blue cap with white kiss mark.
Roxie (sister to Katie) Rex, Standard ear, Charcoal cap with white kiss mark
about 3 months old from a live feeder store
Eden - very light tan self with either black eyes or ruby. Std ears and coat.
Peaches - a tan hooded std ear and coat
and about 2 months from live feeder store
Violet - Russian Blue? The blue looks almost agouti with darker guard hairs. Hooded. Std ears and hair.

And we have 3 boys that are
4-5 months
Chance - Black Blazed veriberk std ears and hair. Bred by a friend who breeds feed and pets.
Ace - agouti veriberk from petsmart
and
3 months old - Hunter -beige hooded std ears and hair. We got him from a pet store in the area that buys from home breeders only, no mills.

I love my rat babies!