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Nova_C said:
That 'type' of crime? How do you mean?

Or are you saying anyone who ends up on the sexual offender registry should be permanently ostracized and not allowed to recover their life?
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Oh absolutely not, Nova. There are too many people on the registry for the wrong reasons. This man, however, was released back into society after being jailed for this once, and look what happened. Chemical castration and proof positive that he's a menace to children should be enforced...however, in this case, I think the DP is too kind. He deserves life in general population.

In no way am I talking about the 18 year old who had consensual relations with his sophmore girlfriend or anything of that nature.
 
LBoz said:
In no way am I talking about the 18 year old who had consensual relations with his sophmore girlfriend or anything of that nature.
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So where's the line? At what point does a sexual crime deserve permanent mutilation?
 
LBoz said:
Chemical castration and proof positive that he's a menace to children should be enforced...
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The trouble is, chemical castration, or surgical, has only been shown to prevent future crimes in perpetrators who have come to realize they were doing harm to their victims and WANT to stop acting on their sexual impulses towards children but don't think they can. This is a small percentage of the child molestors.

There appear to be a few of them it works for, and I think it should be available to those that fit the parameters.

For the criminals who want to keep right on committing these crimes, they just do other awful things to their victims.
 
LBoz said:
in this case, I think the DP is too kind. He deserves life in general population.
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I agree whole heartedly with this, but in most cases these sickos end up together in there own prison blocks because everyone knows what will happen to them in general population. So, these sickos get extra protection in prison too. I don't get it?
 
Nova_C said:
So where's the line? At what point does a sexual crime deserve permanent mutilation?
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Where do we draw the line?? Have you read the OP, Nova? Crimes like THAT are what I'm discussing here. Like I said, and this is only MY opinion which is absolutely biased because I'm a parent, and secondly because I'm human, people, male or female, who commit crimes against children, in my book, deserve NOTHING when it comes to civil liberties. I don't care if they're tossed into a gutter to rot like this particular man did to this innocent FIVE YEAR OLD CHILD. I don't care if he's raped and murdered in prison, I don't care if he's tossed into a rendering plant and turned into glue/dog food/lawn mulch/soylent green for 3rd world countries....I don't care, as long as he's off the streets and unable to turn around and commit the same crime for a THIRD time.
 
Here's the line.

I'm not a little guy.

Succeed in committing a crime where I am the victim, no need for your death for the crime. I AM able to defend myself.

Hurt a KID in a predatory or sexual nature and you should be dead. Kill a KID and you should be dead QUICKER.
 
Nova_C said:
So where's the line? At what point does a sexual crime deserve permanent mutilation?
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Nova_C, I have drawn the line for you. Everything north and east of the red line as indicated by the red arrows you can rehab and release into society all you want. South and west of the red line as indicated by the blue arrows punish to the full extent of US law for cases like this.
 

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So when someone turns 18, crime against them is suddenly less significant?

Hurt a KID in a predatory or sexual nature and you should be dead. Kill a KID and you should be dead QUICKER.
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A lot of women are preyed upon a lot more brutally than children. Are we not horrified just as much? Is it not just as terrible a tragedy?

And does this mean any crime perpetrated against a child deserves the death penalty, regardless of circumstance?

LBoz said:
Like I said, and this is only MY opinion which is absolutely biased because I'm a parent, and secondly because I'm human, people, male or female, who commit crimes against children, in my book, deserve NOTHING when it comes to civil liberties.
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What are you implying by the bolded?
 
tsst said:
Nova_C, I have drawn the line for you. Everything north and east of the red line as indicated by the red arrows you can rehab and release into society all you want. South and west of the red line as indicated by the blue arrows punish to the full extent of US law for cases like this.
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I'm getting a little tired of this. I brought up the differences between the countries because it illustrates that capital punishment isn't necessary to reduce crime rates. If you want to continue down this road, that's fine, but it's juvenile and contributes nothing. If contributing nothing is what you want to do, why even post?
 
I can't edit the first post above, but I meant to say any violent crime against a child as it's clear we're not talking about stealing lunch money.
 
Nova_C said:
I'm getting a little tired of this. I brought up the differences between the countries because it illustrates that capital punishment isn't necessary to reduce crime rates. If you want to continue down this road, that's fine, but it's juvenile and contributes nothing. If contributing nothing is what you want to do, why even post?
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What you fail to realize is the "differences" between the countries makes comparing these issues impossible. You consistently try to draw comparisons between the US and Canada on many topics and the differences are such that those comparisons are render to very little validity. On par with my hyperbole.
 
tsst said:
What you fail to realize is the "differences" between the countries makes comparing these issues impossible. You consistently try to draw comparisons between the US and Canada on many topics and the differences are such that those comparisons are render to very little validity. On par with my hyperbole.
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Actually, you know what, I agree.

So I better never again have to defend Canada's health care from demonization in any more US health care threads.
 
Nova_C said:
Actually, you know what, I agree.

So I better never again have to defend Canada's health care from demonization in any more US health care threads.
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I believe it was Danielle that pointed out countless times to you in that thread that our systems were too dissimilar also. :shrugs: I don't recall everything with my age increases comes memory decreases. But wasn't it a member of our gov/UHC supporting congress or senate that brought up how great the Canadian system was and members here simply pointed out that it was not as great as some were leading us to believe. But alas UHC is for another thread.

Feel free to debate against CP and many, including I, will debate. But drawing the conclusion that since it works in Canada it must work in the US just doesn't apply in most cases.
 
tsst said:
Feel free to debate against CP and many, including I, will debate. But drawing the conclusion that since it works in Canada it must work in the US just doesn't apply in most cases.
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Canada was illustrative - the main question I've been asking an no one has answered other than vague assumptions is, what is the actual effect of Capital Punishment on violent crime?

See? No reference to anything but the issue at hand. No misdirection, only a real question about the thing you all support so vehemently.
 
Nova_C said:
Canada was illustrative - the main question I've been asking an no one has answered other than vague assumptions is, what is the actual effect of Capital Punishment on violent crime? ...
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Simple. It eliminates that criminal from repeating crimes. One less criminal!
 
Nova_C said:
How do you know they'd repeat crimes?
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Criminal records. Some records are are unbelievable and as long as the criminals arm.

Nova_C said:
Also, that didn't actually answer the question.
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Huh? You asked ...
Nova_C said:
... what is the actual effect of Capital Punishment on violent crime?...
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To which I stated - 'Simple. It eliminates that criminal from repeating crimes. One less criminal!'

Were you meaning is a deterrent effect?
 
I mean, currently the cost of executing someone runs in the tens of millions.

http://www.flanews.com/?p=4210

Leaving aside the morality of capital punishment and the likelihood of executing innocents, is capital punishment worth the cost? That is, in a society as obsessed with crime as the US seems to be, as well as the finite nature of tax dollars, is capital punishment even a good use of that money to reduce violent crime, let alone the best use?
 
I'm just curious Nova_C, what would do you think should happen to the man that raped and killed that five year old girl? Not cases like his in general - just this man specifically. I notice that you are quick to post about CP, sexual offenders and criminals, but you haven't said anything about the original post dealing with the child.

I'm actually really just curious - not looking to flare tempers higher than they already are.
 
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