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she's not a she- just venting

ascottlaw

ascottlaw

Member
I thought my female amel strip was big enough to breed to my golddust. Since she is possibly het for caramel, the hope was to work toward striped goldust and butters in two or three generations. Turns out she had a hemipenis pop out when she tried to mate with the golddust. So much for the plan. Now I have 2 male striped amels that are possibly het for caramel. Aargh.
 
I hate when that happens. Happened to me, I had what I thought was a female, registered "her" with ACR, but "she" ended up being male. I had to do a name change and get a new certificate for him!
Just goes to show sexing is never 100% accurate. Buying from people who have been breeding for a while helps, but even pros make mistakes. I didn't know how to pop a snake back then but now I double check snakes when I get them.
2 male striped amels het for caramel is not so bad, better than if they were amel het for caramel stripe at least. I'm sure there's people who would take one off your hands.
 
I'm going to have to sell one of them. I've got nothing to pair them up with. All of the females are committed to other projects.
 
I hope you don't consider this a thread hijack. Please let me know if you mind, and I'll delete my post and make a new thread.

For breeders, do you offer any guarantees on the sex of hatchlings? What is a reasonable course of action if you find out from a buyer that a snake was missexed? It's especially valid in this case, since females tend to cost more.
 
Jrgh17 said:
I hope you don't consider this a thread hijack. Please let me know if you mind, and I'll delete my post and make a new thread.

For breeders, do you offer any guarantees on the sex of hatchlings? What is a reasonable course of action if you find out from a buyer that a snake was missexed? It's especially valid in this case, since females tend to cost more.
Click to expand...

I'm going to reply to this here in the hope that if it is considered a thread hijack the mods are nice enough to split the thread instead of just deleting posts :)

I find this a really interesting but difficult question, as there's so much to think about. Personally, I probe all of the snakes I sell so I can be as confident as possible that they're sexed correctly before they go anywhere - but where does my responsibility end? If a week later the snake is found to be the opposite sex, then I would replace it or refund the person, no doubt about it ...

What about a month later, two months later, six months later?
How do you even know it's the same snake?
If someone came back to you three years later when they tried to breed from the snake would you still replace or refund it, and if so how would you work out the "value" of that snake for refund purposes?
If I sell a snake, then the buyer sells it on, am I still responsible for guaranteeing the sex of it?
 
As far as a guarantee to sexing. I do it based on a time line. We've been doing this for many years now, but mistakes do happen, especially when you are sexing several hundred babies. I give the buyer the same time line for accurate sex that they have when the animal comes in. It is not a strict guide so say the least, but if several months went by, I'd be less likely to try to "fix" the problem. (As stated before, who knows if it is even the same animal) If the animal is bought for breeding purposes, I see that the buyer has some responsibility to sex the animal when it comes in. I do, no matter who I bought it from. Because I have had the same exact thing happen, waited too long, tried to breed said animal, and the animal is not what it was suppose to be. Lost money, because in most cases males are not as expensive as females, learned my lesson the hard way.
 
First, I don't think this thread is being hijacked. Second, I agree that a buyer has an obligation to confirm the sex of what they received. In this case, I was too inexperienced when I got them to know how to sex a snake by popping or counting post vent scales. I still don't know how to probe. I sent a message to the breeder (Liam Sevier) just to let him know and he was more than generous in offering to refund some of the costs. I don't blame him at all, and will add to his rep when I find him on the forums. These things happen despite the fact that everyone is usually very careful. I think most of the breeders follow a reasonable policy like the one described above or state up front that sex is not guaranteed.
 
Some great thoughts guys. I will have my first clutch of eggs VERY SOON, by the looks of it. Being a first-time breeder I am more likely to make mistakes. Of course, I can compensate for that by being overly anal. ;)

I'm considering adding to my TOS something to the effect of: "Buyer is responsible to confirm sex of any unproven animal purchased within one month. After that time period, the sale is considered fully consummated and the sellers obligation has been filled.
 
I would replace or refund a sexing error within a reasonable amount of time. I try to sex hatchlings multiple times because I know I've made mistakes. Once I've sexed a snake as male, that is pretty much guaranteed correct as popped hemipenes is difficult to mistake for anything else. Females are another story. Adding something about confirming sex to a TOS is a great idea. I need to do that one of these days. Mine is in desperate need of updating as it is.
 
Susan said:
I would replace or refund a sexing error within a reasonable amount of time. I try to sex hatchlings multiple times because I know I've made mistakes. Once I've sexed a snake as male, that is pretty much guaranteed correct as popped hemipenes is difficult to mistake for anything else. Females are another story. Adding something about confirming sex to a TOS is a great idea. I need to do that one of these days. Mine is in desperate need of updating as it is.
Click to expand...

Is the time frame too long? I was considering saying one week (because this is the length of time of my health guarantee), but some people might want time to arrange for someone else to sex the snake if they're not that experienced. :shrugs: Two weeks, maybe?
 
You could say something along the lines of that they must check the sex themselves within a week unless they let you know that they have an appt for someone more experienced to do it :shrugs:
 
Jrgh17 said:
I'm considering adding to my TOS something to the effect of: "Buyer is responsible to confirm sex of any unproven animal purchased within one month. After that time period, the sale is considered fully consummated and the sellers obligation has been filled.
Click to expand...

I think that sounds reasonable enough - any more opinions on what is reasonable and decent from the seller? Last year was my first year selling hatchlings, and I was careful to probe each one - but while I told people I was confident of their sex, I never specified a timescale for checking, it was all quite informal, but an incident has made me want to rethink that policy.

Months after I sold the babies last year, someone came back to me complaining that one of their hatchlings was incorrectly sexed. As it happens, I could be sure the snake hadn't come from me as I'd never sold a snake of that morph, so obviously there had been some sort of odd mix-up on the buyer's end (as far as I can tell they bought multiple hatchlings of the same morph from different people, and there had been confusion as to where each individual snake had come from).

But it got me thinking, if I *had* sold one snake to a person in those circumstances, I'd have no way of telling if the snake I got back was actually the one I sold, and it would be so easy to be burned in that situation by an unethical buyer ... so I think breeders do need something to protect themselves against confusion and mistakes - both their own and the buyer's.
 
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