Snake carrying slugs, when do I know if they are "stuck"

[porreij]

I have been scouring the internet for months looking for how to care for my egg filled snake (though not all of that time did I know she had eggs). I got a six year old corn snake in January and I'm a new snake owner.

Snake was already kind of obese looking when we got her, she ate normally, was averagely active. She had her first shed with us in February and it was perfect. Than all of a sudden February 25th or so she becomes very very very active. I didn't know to check for eggs. She stopped eating and started damaging her head by smushing it up against the glass of her vivarium.

Three weeks ago I brought her to a vivarium to get looked at and they felt all her eggs, which are infertile obviously. I already knew infertile eggs can sometimes pose a problem with snakes and he said I shouldn't worry, just set up her humidity box. He knew her timeline and didn't seem concerned.

I immediately made a humidity box with sphagnum moss but she wouldn't go into it, just around it and over it. So I made a new one that she could enter from the side, not the top. She went it and out of it a few times for a week an a half.

Then things changed. She stopped being active and spent a lot of time in her hide. She pooped. (or it was a squished egg? It had the consistency of her poo but was lighter in color). She ate her first meal in two months. She pooped a few days later, but mostly was inactive in her regular hide. The day after her poop, I took out the humidity hide, like I do every 3-4 days, to rinse the sphagnum and resoak it so the water doesn't become stale or moldy. She went all in immediately and has been in there for 40 hours.

Is she trying to lay? I don't know what to look for, I don't know time lines on when snakes lay to know if she's having trouble. Her cochlea does not seem bulbous or obviously impacted like a lot of the videos show (when they are manually helping to remove stuck eggs).

Questions:
Do pre lay sheds only apply to fertile eggs? All these forums talk about looking for that pre lay shed, but I gather not all snakes do that. Mine hasn't.

If she is having problems with laying her eggs, would she still be pooping? I got two poops out of her over two weeks. Her eggs are definitely not squishing her digestive tract.

What is a time line for laying her eggs? Am I past it? I'm aware of the seriousness of blocked eggs, but I don't want to stress out my snake driving her an hour to a vet when at the moment she's probably trying to get her zen on to push those non babies out.

Why aren't there more bits of information on people with snakes that produce slugs? Everything seems to be geared for fertile eggs or doesn't discuss how time lines and specific things to look for. All I read is "an xray will let you know if they are blocked". I'm not getting my snake xrayed every year in the spring. Any good resources would be amazing. Thank you.

 

[Nanci]

How many days ago was her prelay shed? Sometimes slugs are different. The snake may drop one or two, here and there, over the course of a couple weeks.

Make note of this date, and next year, maybe starting in January, I'd cut back her meals to a small to medium mouse every two or three weeks. It's theorized that the amount of food fed can influence double clutching, (either way) and it may help keep her from growing slugs.

Sometimes a snake will ovulate, and you can feel egg bumps, and she may go off food, and you wait and wait, and then the "eggs" reabsorb and disappear. I have eggs in quotes because I don't know if there are actual eggs, or just enlarged follicles with- I don't know. I don't know the physiology of how it works when eggs don't actually get laid.

There probably isn't a lot of information about slugs because it usually comes as a surprise, and goes so unnoticed that the first thing an owner knows about it is they find a clutch of slugs in the water bowl, or buried in a corner.

 

[porreij]

Hi Nanci, thank you for responding!

You asked about her pre lay shed. Please explain when pre lay sheds occur. She had one in February before she was very active and stopped eating. From what I read snakes have a pre lay shed and then lay their eggs within a few weeks of that. So I wouldn't qualify her February shed as her pre lay shed. There has not been a shed since.

She is actually going pale at the moment while in her humidity box. I'm becoming slightly relieved that THIS is her prelay shed and she will pass, reabsorb, do something with those eggs/lumps in her. I have people in other forums telling me to take her to a vet immediately, others saying she's fine. I have no idea what to look for. At the moment, she doesn't seemed stressed, she's pooping just fine. If you have any obvious things to note on what indicates I should absolutely take her to the vet, that'd be really helpful. Thank you.

 

[Nanci]

Another thought- you've only had her since February. You don't know the eggs are infertile. She could have retained sperm from last year. She could have been housed with another snake prior to you acquiring her. Wouldn't that be a surprise!

It doesn't hurt to have a vet just look her over. But I wouldn't worry until there are signs of trouble. If she is straining to lay, and nothing is happening. If she prolapses an oviduct. If she stops eating and pooping.

 

[porreij]

Thank you for letting me know what to look for! She ate and pooped within the last week, so far so good on that front. Also, she's in the blue right now! Full on. Still in her humidity hide. I hope this is a good sign. I actually wish I had fed her more when she got her appetite back because I don't know how long she's going to stay in that humidity hide. This is normal though, right? The vet I trust is about a 40 minute- 1 hour drive away, feels wrong to remove her from her hide while she's in the blue to be handled a bunch so I will if I notice signs of trouble like you mentioned.

And no, she wasn't bred. I bought her from a family that couldn't care for her anymore. Her primary care giver was a child (with the help of the parents). Her viv was gross and they kind of neglected her. I'm very confident these are infertile eggs. If they are fertile, I already know how to tell the difference and what to do with them because I watched heaps of youtube videos to get an idea of this process.

I DID have the vivarium where the family bought her from (where they have their own vets and do breeding of snakes on site) examine here three weeks ago. They said to not worry, helped me build this humidity hide, and told me what to look for when she expels the eggs. He also warned me she may reabsorb them. He did not xray her or tell me about prelay sheds though, and didn't think I should worry about the eggs getting stuck acting as if that isn't as common as I made it sound. :/ The internet says otherwise. This is why I am on the forum. You've been a big help. I appreciate it.

 

[DollysMom]

I think that like many problems you hear about them out of proportion to the actual number of occurrences. After all, people are going to post about their problems. So relax a little.

It sounds like you've provided her with what she needs and that she's taking care of herself. I'm glad you have a vet who can help when needed, but odds are she will lay the slugs or eggs without trouble. If she does have trouble you know how to recognize it and to get her help. It seems you have all bases covered.

Keep her temps good, her water fresh and relax a bit.

 

[darrolldavis37]

hey guy's i have a question how do you prepare yourself for the next breeding seasons if the first time breeding was all slugs?

 

[Nanci]

hey guy's i have a question how do you prepare yourself for the next breeding seasons if the first time breeding was all slugs?

I would recommend using a male that is proven fertile. My vet says that if a snake lays slugs, generally it is the female's "fault," which I didn't think was true, at least in my case, at the time. I bred the same male, the second year, to the same female, and a second female, and both laid slugs (well actually the new female laid slugs and some retained sperm eggs which hatched deformed babies...) and concluded it was the male. The original female was bred to a proven fertile male a few years later, and slugged out again. So three times infertile for her, and she was retired into a pet home.

You can look at semen from your male under a microscope. I attempted to do this- but I couldn't get the slide prepared correctly. Possibly my vet could have helped, had I brought the breeding pair into the office, to collect semen and have the vet look at it.

At any rate, using a proven fertile male would rule out infertility in the male, and if you still got slugs, you would have to consider the female was the infertile one.

You can also look at your mating schedule. What works for me is, start putting the pair together after the female has her first shed, in the new year. It hasn't mattered for my males at least, what part of the shed cycle they are in. Most of my males will breed when blue, if the female is ready.

I save the female's shed, and put her together with the male every Sunday evening, until they breed. I lightly mist the breeding bin, which is bare, except for the female's shed, which I also mist. If there's a rain storm during the week, I might try that night instead. But generally, just put them together every Sunday till they breed.

After they breed the first time, I put them together every other day, for five successful breedings, or until the female refuses twice in a row. Sometimes I only get one or two breedings, but usually, once she accepts the male, she'll go for four or five times.

I also might try feeding the female a little more heavily coming up to the breeding season, just to signal to her body that the food supply is excellent, and she is safe to reproduce.