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Snake seeing reflection???

Minderlynn

New member
So, today was feeding day. Everything went normally. Got Simbi out of his cage, put him in his feeding bin, gave him his pink, he swallowed as if he hadn't eaten in a week (he ate three days ago), all normal. I always put his bin next to his tank on the floor kinda by the couch. The lights at an angle there. I was in the couch looking over to see progress. When he had swallowed and finished pushing it down. He went into strike pose at what looked to be his reflection. I knew he wasn't looking at me because I was out of his direct eyesight. He calmed down, went up to his reflection and touched his nose to it. He then proceeded to follow it all along the container. Then when I proceeded to pick him up, he actually WENT AFTER my hand. He didn't go into striking pose or actually bite me, but he went after me!!! I put him directly under the light so he couldn't see his reflection, let him calm down and picked him up no prob. My question is: can snakes even see their reflection? And has anyone else had this experience? If it wasn't his reflection then what got him riled up? I got him a new solid container so he can't see his "twin". This was all new to me!! :confused:
 
Mine react to their reflections in the mirror...never in a defensive manor but they can definitely see it. I would guess he went after your hand because he was still in feeding mode. How soon after feeding did you try to pick him up? And on a side note...a 4 day feeding schedule is considered pretty aggressive. Feeding every 3 days isn't allowing your little guy enough time to digest before his next meal is coming.
 
I'm glad other snakes see their reflections, too. I handled him probably about 15 min after feeding. He doesn't strike his prey, just swallows. He actually doesn't even show a lump in him after 12 hours. He only weighs between 7 & 8 grams and has the past month. My vet to feed him every 3 days and if his weight doesn't increase she said we might bump him up for a bit.
 
I'm going to trust in my vet for the time being. I've read a lot about him. Every 3-4 days is the norm. I didn't actually start this thread to discuss my snake's feeding habits. He is a fine, healthy, active snake. He seems to digest in that amount of time just fine.
 
I'm going to trust in my vet for the time being. I've read a lot about him. Every 3-4 days is the norm. I didn't actually start this thread to discuss my snake's feeding habits. He is a fine, healthy, active snake. He seems to digest in that amount of time just fine.

Minderlynn, while I can understand why you would trust the word of your veterinarian, many members of this forum have been dealing with snakes for several decades, and I think they would all agree your feeding schedule is a bit aggressive. We wouldn't make such a big deal out of it for nothing, you know.
 
Lol @ the snake being afraid of its own reflection! I have one snake who'll follow my hand after she's eaten (asking for more food, I think), but I don't think I have any that get freaked out by a reflection. Or by being faced with another snake, since, on occasion, I'll take the snake I'm handling and hold it up to a tank whose occupant is out-and-about... Now the bearded dragon, on the other hand....

I have to agree with everyone else, though. Every 3 days is hugely aggressive. I don't feed more often than every 5 days, personally, and those are only the ones that're on pinks. And don't get annoyed at people pointing it out--we call 'em as we see 'em around here... Especially since you aren't making a separate thread to discuss the snake's feeding schedule (certainly a more pressing subject than your snake being bothered by its reflection, too).

What your vet says isn't always right, no matter how reputable s/he is. No one knows everything, and I'm much more ready to trust a hundred reliable sources on a reputable website than I am the one vet because "s/he is really knowledgeable." Several of my snakes would be considered "small". I have an '08 who is still only 10 grams, maybe a few more. Still can't handle more than one pinkie mouse, either way. I wouldn't dream of feeding him more often than his current 5-day schedule. When my '09s hatch out, they'll be fed no more often than every 5 days from the day they accept their first meal. Then there's the 270-gram '05 and his '05 girlfriend who just dropped 150 grams in eggs overnight (went from approx 470 to 310 grams). The male is on a 7-day schedule, and the female is only on the same schedule until she's done building back up her fat reserves a bit. And then I have a 15 gram sand boa, and a tiny '06 red tail boa... But we're talking about corn snakes.

If your vet believes you should feed every 3 days because your '08 is only 7-8 grams, s/he would probably look at my schedule and say I'm "starving" those smaller snakes, including the 20-40 gram '08s who only get fed once a week. I look at that schedule and say "she needs to be fed less often, he's a few weeks from feeding less often.. This, that, and the other would benefit from going a few extra days without this week.. " It's an opinion and experience thing. If I were you, I'd more readily listen to the corn snake-oriented forum than the catch-all reptile vet. "Every 3 days is best" is your vet's singular opinion and (likely limited) experience, "every 3 days is too often" is the combined opinion and experiences of a hundred or so corn snake keepers who've been doing this for anywhere from a year to several decades. Personally, I'd listen to the massive corn snake forum before I listened to a vet who potentially has little to no experience with snakes (after all, not all good "reptile" vets are good "snake" vets).

Oopsie! I think I ranted a bit... Sorry for the super-long post. It sort of happens when I'm up late like this. Lol =)
 
Floofy!! That's so cute! Congrats on the eggs!! I bet your super psyched. I would be.:crazy01: I've never seen/heard of a sand boa. Got a pic lurking around?
I couldn't believe Simbi freaked out!! It was SOOOO cute!! Even when he came after me... sort of. I actually wanted to people to focus on the reflection part. If I knew it would cause such controversy I wouldn't have mentioned the feeding. I wasn't sure if he could even see himself or he was just going crazy!! LOL

I don't mean to sound annoyed (I'm just an arguer by nature). I guess I should use more smileys!! ;) I believe in my vet. She seems to know her stuff. She sees more snakes than you would think. I made sure to ask. The times I've been in there she has seen snakes before me. One was a 40 pound ball python whose eye she had operated on. I want nothing but the best for Simbi (who is actually a January '09 baby). Right now, I think I'm doing the best for him. If only he could talk.... He means a lot to me, as I'm sure everybody's snake(s) does. Also, the 3-4 day feeding isn't just coming from her. I've read several books, internet sites, other threads that say 3-4 days. I've read others that say 4-5, 5-6, 6-7, etc. For the time being, he is doing just fine, so I'll keep him on his regular schedule. I think it's more up to the owner and how the snake reacts to the feedings. He's never missed a feeding and poops regularly (sometimes on me :puke02:). I'm not worried about his feeding schedule. Hence why I have not made a thread about it. I will discuss everyone's opinion with my vet and see what she has to say. For now, he's happy, healthy, fiesty, and active. :cheers:
 
I didn't mean to open up a can of worms here...I swear! And I think you are better off for at least listening to other opinions on the subject. Here is a decent feeding schedule that many of us use for our little ones...
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50106&highlight=munson+plan
I would suggest looking it over and asking your vet what she thinks of the whole situation. Thanks for at least giving it a chance!

OK back to reflections ;)
 
It's ok. I appreciate the concern. I know you all mean the best. I wouldn't think you were trying to "starve" Simbi. Part of the reason I joined was to get advice. I'll definitely take it up with my vet. I copied The Munson Plan and put it on my black berry (I'm forgetful so I have to write/type everything on a list). Simbi has his own separate plastic container (complete with a hide) just for traveling. LOL, I know dumb!!:laugh: I do appreciate it. Thanks to all. I'll keep you updated on his progress. His appointment is tomorrow (another injection and spray). He'll LOVE that!!! :nope: The weather was so beautiful here in AR that I took him outside for some sun. He loved it. His eyes looked silver. So, that was really cool!!! :D
 
One was a 40 pound ball python whose eye she had operated on.

Not to nitpick, but a HUGE female ball python might weigh 6000 grams. That's just a little over 13 pounds. Your vet must really push that feeding schedule to all her clients! ;)
 
Hahaha. Thank you for that elrojo. I thought that sounded wrong but I will be the first to admit that I really don't know much about ball pythons.
 
LOL. You all seem to be anti-vet. Maybe I joined the wrong forum. I trust vets. They went to school for a reason. I'd trust a nuerosurgeon way before I'd trust some one "who has been around it, read about, and 'thinks' they know what they are doing". The python was off topic besides (not sure if it was a ball. Didn't see it) nor did I know how long it had been a patient there. You all seem to jump to conclusion without knowing facts.
 
LOL. You all seem to be anti-vet.
Because we disagree with your vet's feeding program, we are suddenly "anti-vet?!?" I think you are the one jumping to conclusions here.
Maybe I joined the wrong forum. I trust vets. They went to school for a reason. I'd trust a nuerosurgeon way before I'd trust some one "who has been around it, read about, and 'thinks' they know what they are doing".
If I had to raise a cornsnake, I'd personally trust someone who had bred and produced over a thousand of them (like myself and many others here) than someone who had been to school for health/nutrition, pathology, parasitology, anatomy and physiology of tons of animals, from furred to feathered. But that's just me.
The python was off topic besides (not sure if it was a ball. Didn't see it) nor did I know how long it had been a patient there. You all seem to jump to conclusion without knowing facts.
That was a joke. You mentioned a really aggressive feeding schedule, then followed up with a world-record weight on a specific snake species. Just trying to lighten the mood.


For the record, I'm probably the most "anti-vet" person here. They over-vaccinate and sell crappy dog and cat food, for the most part. But I know and deal with many in my line of work, and almost married one. :cheers:
 
Floofy!! That's so cute! Congrats on the eggs!! I bet your super psyched. I would be.:crazy01: I've never seen/heard of a sand boa. Got a pic lurking around?

Really? They're GREAT snakes! Tiny little fat worm-things. I don't have many (if any) good pics of my Kenyan sand boa, though. Here's a link to the best one, taken a few months ago. Kinda big, or I would've just put it directly into my post. =) And, yeah, I am excited about the eggs. Can't wait for them to hatch... In the meantime, I'm trying to convince my friends to become snake-keepers so I can pawn a couple of the corns off on them.. Lol!
(And lol @ the "Floofy" thing!)

I couldn't believe Simbi freaked out!! It was SOOOO cute!! Even when he came after me... sort of. I actually wanted to people to focus on the reflection part. If I knew it would cause such controversy I wouldn't have mentioned the feeding. I wasn't sure if he could even see himself or he was just going crazy!! LOL

I'm glad you mentioned the feeding thing. The reflection deal is pretty simple, but the feeding thing is actually vital to your snake's health (too often=fat, possibly constipated snake).

I don't mean to sound annoyed (I'm just an arguer by nature). I guess I should use more smileys!! ;) I believe in my vet. She seems to know her stuff. She sees more snakes than you would think. I made sure to ask. The times I've been in there she has seen snakes before me. One was a 40 pound ball python whose eye she had operated on. I want nothing but the best for Simbi (who is actually a January '09 baby). Right now, I think I'm doing the best for him. If only he could talk.... He means a lot to me, as I'm sure everybody's snake(s) does. Also, the 3-4 day feeding isn't just coming from her. I've read several books, internet sites, other threads that say 3-4 days. I've read others that say 4-5, 5-6, 6-7, etc. For the time being, he is doing just fine, so I'll keep him on his regular schedule. I think it's more up to the owner and how the snake reacts to the feedings. He's never missed a feeding and poops regularly (sometimes on me :puke02:). I'm not worried about his feeding schedule. Hence why I have not made a thread about it. I will discuss everyone's opinion with my vet and see what she has to say. For now, he's happy, healthy, fiesty, and active. :cheers:

It's good to hear he's doing well, but I'd still stretch out his feedings a little more. Especially if he's just an '09 hatchling... 7 or 8 grams is perfectly normal. Actually, it's usual for a corn snake to hatch somewhere between 6 and 8 grams... He certainly doesn't need such an aggressive feeding schedule at his age. Like I said, I have an '08 who's only around 10 grams right now (would weigh him now, but I'm lazy..). He hatched some time in June of last year, and still weighs barely more than your 4-month-old Simbi. He's an active, happy snake who sheds regularly and still only eats one pink every 5-7 days. Besides. I can't imagine you're able to handle him often when he's digesting all the time...

I doubt any one here is really "anti-vet". In fact, it's great that you're taking Simbi for vet check-ups! The thing is, your vet doesn't automatically know everything about your snake's species, specifically. Actually, my vet is always telling me "the internet is the best place to get information because it's so up-to-date." And a big forum like this with so many experienced members to check each others' advice is the best of all. It's hard to get duped on info when you have so many different sources and people constantly at the ready to correct any bad advice.

I have to take a stab at your neurosurgeon comparison... Though I'm too lazy to go back and quote that post, too. You would be going to a neurosurgeon for a medical procedure. Just like you would with a vet. When it comes to husbandry information, though, I'm with Elrojo--hands down, a handful of people who breed and care for hundreds of your specific snake species is going to be more reliable than any vet. Husbandry and medical procedure are two different things. Sorry to use the neurosurgeon bit against you, but I'd rather go to the neurosurgeon to get brain surgery than the catch-all surgeon who happens to be on call (forgive me if that makes little sense, I don't know a whole lot about practical medicine... lol). In other words, I'd rather go to the specialist than the generalist. In this case, the specialist is the corn snake breeder (worked with corn snakes for several years, produced and raised thousands) and the generalist is the veterinarian (cares for hundreds of diverse reptile species, doesn't necessarily know much beyond the basics about your species). Yikes. I think I took an unnecessarily long time to really get to the point there... Sorry if it's a tad confusing. :eek:

Anyway. I've learned to take my own vet's information with a grain of salt--at least, with lizards. After finding out my beardie was emaciated, dehydrated, and had Metabolic Bone Disorder, she declared the silkworms I was feeding him were an unnecessary waste of money, and crickets and mealworms (which leave bits of exoskeleton in his poop for days on end when he does get them) were just as good. She would probably have a cow if I bothered to inform her I spent the extra money to feed him calcium-rich butterworms as opposed to the waxworms she suggested to get his weight back up... Lol. My point is, the vet doesn't always know best when it comes to feeding...

And thanks for giving our suggestions a chance. A hungry corn snake is certainly better than a fat one. ;) It's like dogs... It's been proven that a half-starved dog lives longer than an obese one. Can't remember where exactly I heard that, though...

Hey, just out of curiosity: what's the injection and spray for? Mites, infection? :shrugs: Whatever it is, best of luck helping Simbi get over it. Love the name, by the way... =)
 
Kenyan's beautiful!!! (cool name too) Does look like a big worm!! LOL! We don't have much of a selection here in Fort Smith. We only have 2 pet stores in Fort Smith, 1 in Van Buren, 1 in Poteau, OK. Maybe a few more around, but none that I've heard of. Petco sells ball pythons, corns, red tail boas, kings, and garters. That's about all I've seen at the other pet stores as well.


I want a beardie SO BAD!!!! I'm soooo jealous!!!!! :cry: I'm having a hard enough time with paying for Simbi's vet bills. Do you have a pic of him? (I'm going pic nuts over your animals :crazy01:)

Maybe the neurosurgeon was a bad comparison. Humans have a doctor for just about every part of the body. If I had a dog and it had an eating problem, I would take him to the vet, not to the breeder I got him from. That's the point I was trying to make. I guess it would've been simpler to say it like that. LOL

He had mites. :( I'm not sure if they came from the pet store (I got him from the one in Van Buren) or from the bark substrate I put in there. He's getting his last injection and spray today. He hasn't had mites since his first spray and injection. :) Thanks on the name (I'm too lazy to quote, too.) His whole name is Simbi Makaya. Simbi Makaya was a Haitian serpent lao (spirit) of sorcery. I'm not into the Haitian culture or voodoo or anything. I don't do "rituals" with Simbi, either. I just happend to wiki serpent mythology and liked the sound of it. I'll update after I get back from the vet and clean Simbi's tank.
 
You're only 16 and breeding snakes?!?!?! Wow, I had a hermit crab as a pet at 16. Very low maintenance!!! That's really amazing!!! You should be very proud of yourself. I'm sure you are. You also live in my favorite state. ARGH!!! :angry01: I hate Arkansas!!!!
 
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