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Taken a turn for the worst. I need help/advice..

Perfectly said Lynn. And I am guilty of everything you mentioned... we all slip up and we all make mistakes.

Perhaps we both posted emotivley, but like you said, if this amounts to nothing more than a bacterial RI then at least people had their butts kicked in regards to how important hygiene procedures are - including myself.
 
Just to note

it would actually have been inpossible for me to practice bad hygiene and qaurentine preocedures at other keepers homes or outdoor units. IF they had not allowed it..
if they wished for colections to be copmpletely safe why were snakes passed aorund between lots of various people with no hygienic hand washes...

i am to blame for letting that happen at their houses.. but so are THEY.....
were all guilty

Im sick of the ...shock.... horror.... NEVER ME attitude,,, quite frankly it stinks..
 
This thread, while bittersweet, is loaded with good information.

So please pardon me in advance for asking:

Why is this a "sticky" in the "General Chit-Chat" forum? Simply because the snake in question was a BP?

I don't mean to stir a turd, as it were, I'm just conflicted with all the relevant information on health issues and its "rank" as a sticky in a sub-forum which is "general" by definition. :shrugs:

regards,
jazz
 
Susan asked me if she could sticky it as she felt the information was good. I had no objections, but perhaps it shouldn't be stickied for too much longer.
 
klootie said:
I KNOW.... thats the weird thing nerys.. i actually said almost identically what you did...

this is what i said in the RFUK thread.,.. yes?? if you go and re-read it i stated simply what youre now saying in this thread... way back near the start...

I can trace snakes between houses and keepers as to who they may have been in contact with.. MAY being the operative word...

Meetings where snakes were passed aorund and hand wash NOT always used.. meetings where snakes were handled and quarentine proceedures etc not followed.. i didnt know at the time what proper quaretine preocedures were exactly,, my fault most certainly as i have only been keeping a year.. BUT surely these others knew.. or at least some of them...



ive been at peoples houses and sheds who have happily let everyone there handle various snakes that have only been with the, a short while.. im not saying thats a terrible thing to do.. its JUST a stupid thing and careless and we dont always think.... but trust me i wil overthink every single thing from now on...

so whos to blame... ALL OF US.... not everyones collection wil suffer of course... but that doesnt mean they we are all practicing perfect hygiene and quarentine...

if people start pretending they were and they think they can prove that by saying but none of my snakes are ill...then frankly i give up.. justy because snakes are not ill does not mean a person practices perfect hygiene and quarentine EVERY TIME...


even a fabulous keeper and breeder this year was caught out with the infection of mycroplasma in her collection.. and she is scrupulous so i have been told.. and fully believe... so if people as careful and experienced as her can be caught out then its easy to see why newer keepers can...


im sick of people looking outwards just now... we need to look inwards.. that was what the RFUK thread was about... i said IF i have inadvenrtantly passed something on i will take responisibility... others did not take this view.. they protected themselves.... . when actually i saw with my own eyes times WE ( not just I) did not practice perfect hygiene and we could have passed things beteen us.. they did not impress upon me to clean hands every time.. they did not clean their own hands when going from snake to snake.. i thought this initially was the norm... i was SO wrong.... just because a WC animal or a CF animal SEEMS ok doesnt mean its a good idea to take it round meetings and houses... JUST because YOU THINK everythings fine..

if all this did was give the Uk one big wake up call ..then thats fine...




Windsor elles snake got sick and was euthanised... the vet SAID he FELT it had to have had the infection longer than elle had had it back from its previous owner.. then my python got sisk after being near windsor... my python had been in a n outdoor heated unit before he went to elles with a guy i know had also been at all the snake meetings and breeders houses too.... who the heck knows how it started..... wil we ever know.. we wil know the cause but maybe not the place it began... and saying al that it COULD be co-incidental and all these animals have RIs that are totally unrelated .... ...

IF another snake that had indeed been in contact or near someone or a persons hair or clothes or whatever... then that makes me think.. its so easy to spread then isnt it????? as I have seen many occasions in hindsight this could have been the case... anyone at any stage of handling if they hadnt changed clothes.. washed hair etc could have passed it from snake to snake.... so its noones fault,..... its everyones... if you dont protect your own collection and keep it safe thats the owners and breeders repsonsibility too.. if we take animals to meetings and other rep keeprs are there... then it might be passed that way...

Im admitting my faults... saying whati have doen wrong in orer to LEARN not to blame.... how i am viewed for this is irrelevant as if it means MUCH better rep keeping on my part then that can only be positive...

the negatives in this sitation to me do NOT outweight what positives there are....

Monetarily i can see there may have been losses in collections being sold at the moment.. but how many more people are now giving themselves a kick up the backside about thier hygiene and quarentine practices...





BUT SO many breeders right now are saying YES we can categorically say weve never handled snakes that way...... yet ive SEEN it with my own eyes.. im not hiding i have done this too.. i am regretting being so stupid and feel terrible.. but im being brutally honest..... ...unlike so many



people saying things like..

"OH i dont need to quarentine I KNOW the snake came from a reputable source".. reputablwe is one thing.. 100% safe from any infections is another... and noone MEANS to pass things on.. it just happens...

quite frankly.... i had NO ill snakes in my collection until 6 days ago.. NONE..

as soon as i knew i had i went public..

I regret the upset it has caused,, i regret posting emotionally.. i regret not being perfect in every post..

I do NOT regret having said what i have about hygiene and quarentine procedures...
Click to expand...

I applaud your honesty and perspective. There are a lot of B.S.-ers out there when something goes wrong or when there's a risk that something has gone wrong. All of a sudden everyone is pointing fingers and claiming perfect past performance. You see it all the time. I don't buy it.

When certain pathogens don't manifest themselves symptomatically for years, how the heck can you ever properly quarantine? One area of snake keeping/breeding that I notice a lot of "look the other way" or "head in the sand" attitudes about is breeding loans. Then there are the shows/expos, followed by the visits to the local pet stores.

I dunno. Cryptosporidium is a big scare here in the U.S., and I've seen some pretty unrealistic attitudes toward it. Some of these things are just risks that you have no choice but to assume if you're going to be active in the hobby. To pretend otherwise is silly.
 
Nobody wants to be brave and take the fall, Dean. It's very hard for some people to admit they screwed up. Keeping the truth to yourself only leads to more finger pointing and could potentially harm everyone else in the community.

Theres lots of secrets and double crossing out there. I finally realised just how bittersweet the hobby is.
 
Tula_Montage said:
Nobody wants to be brave and take the fall, Dean. It's very hard for some people to admit they screwed up. Keeping the truth to yourself only leads to more finger pointing and could potentially harm everyone else in the community.

Theres lots of secrets and double crossing out there. I finally realised just how bittersweet the hobby is.
Click to expand...

so in that case Elle, i assume you WILL be making the results of the PM publically available online?

after all, it is your snake and your information, no-one can sue you for doing that, and yes that comes from legal advisors..

currently you are saying you will only show people face to face..

now why would we want to come and see you face to face... bearing in mind you have, in your terms, an infectious RI present in your collection.

i can see the sympathy over here is with you for being "open honest and upfront" but in reality this is not exactly the case is it.. and its certainly not how its viewed in your home country - which is were its affecting afterall.

the majority of the UK is currently bricking itself for no good reasons, people are refusing to buy new animals, or go to shows, because YOU have scared the pants off them all.

i would ask that people on here, also read the thread on the UK forum i posted a link to earlier.. if you do not have a balenced view, how can you comment?

N
 
Are you not going to give the results on here, Elle? No-one can stop you from scanning the report on your own animal and making it public.
If people are threatening you, you can show any written threats to the police. In fact they are bound to act upon any spoken threats too, you can't let people get away with that sort of behaviour.
 
diamondlil said:
Are you not going to give the results on here, Elle? No-one can stop you from scanning the report on your own animal and making it public.
If people are threatening you, you can show any written threats to the police. In fact they are bound to act upon any spoken threats too, you can't let people get away with that sort of behaviour.
Click to expand...

I sincerely encourage you to make any information which may be important public. Yes, people may be freaking out. However, I firmly believe that the responsible use of information is never a bad thing. I hate to use a nerdy analogy, but here goes: If your laptop won't turn on, you'd want to know if it's your battery or your harddrive. :shrugs:

Do what you think is the appropriate thing.
 
Nerys,

as one uk member to another, why are you so intent on kicking two ladies that are so wrapped up in grief at present, due to watching beloved pets dying. they are part of their families for goodness sake. do you expect them to be thinking straight? all they can see is pain, sorrow and heartbreak, and felt they needed to warn others in order to hopefully avoid others going through the same thing if possible.

Now they have you and others shouting from the tree tops, and condemning them for not keeping quiet. how dare you? who do you think you are? lets have the truth shall we? you have caused a lot of the problem nerys. you brought your friend casey into it all in the first instance. you asked her to speak out, not the other 2. now your friend needs to prove the facts too, thanks to you, not anyone else.

Have you had die offs in your collection nerys that you kept quiet about? is the worry of losing business eating away at you nerys? you are certainly not showing any caring feelings for the owners and their poor suffering animals.

You accuse these 2 of having a big mouth, but what about yours?
you said you are a courier for animals including reptiles, on the side, and got in very quickly that it was not your company that is involved here but another, which you promptly named without a care. out to ruin them to nerys? 2 much competition for you maybe? who should be keeping quiet nerys. look to yourself quick. you are the biggest stirrer on these threads, and what you are accusing others of, you are doing more of yourself. I guess the thought of those pound notes slipping from your fingers is 2 much to bear ay.

even if this turns out to be an ri infection.it is not the norm. it is still as infectious as a virus and a killer as well, so just as deadly, and needs to be known about. from your own words, and knowing that we have lots of viruses in the uk, you have said that you will need to look at your methods of safeguarding peoples pets when transporting them. that means that until now you have been very lapse, and knowing what you do, that is a disgrace. everyone please take note there.

Perhaps you should also be warning people instead about the nasty virus that attacks Australian species of pythons, and the adenovirus which is another deadly virus which as invaded many countries now including the uk and the good old usa, and is affecting lots of snake species as well as lizards, but then if you do that it will possibly hurt peoples pockets ay nerys.

tanya.
 
Sorry but I thikn that is well out of order! Have you read the Uk thread in it's entirity?

Lynn (and I am FRIENDS with Lynn and love her to bits) and Elle have stated openly in public that there is apossible problem wih the said virus. What has annoyed people on the UK thread is that Elle has blatantly refused to publicise any information form the vets unless people go to her face to face.

I understand Lynnh as stepped out for a break due ot the pressures form various people, none of which are actually called Nerys that I know of, from threatening PM's and emails.

In all of this, Nerys has tried her best ot publicly calm people and put a reasonable explaination forward to alleviate people's fears. By her speaking to Casey and relaying information about Casey's recent vets visit and reports, she has done a damn sight more to make people understand that this could be a basic problem than most others who have been active on the threads. and I owuld imagine, that being an adult, Casey would be able to tell Nerys she didn't wantt o become involved - had she got access tot he net, I ams ure she would have freely posted up any helpful info she had to aid towards calming people.

Many people see Nerys nad a fair few of the other posters on the UK thread as highly esteemed reptile keepers who base things on fact, offer good solid advice and information wherever they can and they deserve a to be respected for not bulls**ting people at every turn.

I genuilnely hope that Elle decides to publicise the conclusion from the vets about her snake and that from that, Lynn manages to get her little girl's python and her other snakes well again but more than naything, I really hope that this hasn't knocked the reputation and confidence of some fo the UK's breeders.

(o this is my fist post btw so hi Cornsnake.com lol )
 
Rivier and Noir. I am not sure if the others are showing symptoms - I think I'm seeing things.

However those two deffinatley have something going on, so I'm taking no risks and having them admited straight away.
 
It could end up costing allot of money too because you have a very nice collection and i bet it stands you at a few quid.
 
what a load of twaddle!

Tula_Montage said:
Nobody wants to be brave and take the fall, Dean. It's very hard for some people to admit they screwed up. Keeping the truth to yourself only leads to more finger pointing and could potentially harm everyone else in the community.

Theres lots of secrets and double crossing out there. I finally realised just how bittersweet the hobby is.
Click to expand...

so in that case Elle, i assume you WILL be making the results of the PM publically available online?

after all, it is your snake and your information, no-one can sue you for doing that, and yes that comes from legal advisors..

currently you are saying you will only show people face to face..

now why would we want to come and see you face to face... bearing in mind you have, in your terms, an infectious RI present in your collection.

i can see the sympathy over here is with you for being "open honest and upfront" but in reality this is not exactly the case is it.. and its certainly not how its viewed in your home country - which is were its affecting afterall.

the majority of the UK is currently bricking itself for no good reasons, people are refusing to buy new animals, or go to shows, because YOU have scared the pants off them all.

i would ask that people on here, also read the thread on the UK forum i posted a link to earlier.. if you do not have a balenced view, how can you comment?

N
 
Elle, reading the linked thread, I can see that you are under attack to an extent. I have to ask though, unless you do make the test results as public as the threads about the possibility of outbreak, how will the attacks end?
If the results turn out positive there are huge implications for this county's herp community. If they are negative then you will still have raised important issues like quarantine, hygiene standards and transporting and trading herps safely.
 
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