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Taken a turn for the worst. I need help/advice..

enigma said:
i myself would discount the feeding idea. when it comes to royals in particular, we would all have umpteen snakes dying on us if this were the case. even royal hatchlings can be hard to get started eating.
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i didnt say at any point it was his eating.... the vet mentioned to ME monday it could easily have contributed to his inability to shake things off.... even though on baytril etc.... thats al i said... PERHAPS ( like the vet said.. ) it was a factor..

I would hate to agree or disagree at any point with this... I am not a qualified herp vet.. so im not discounting a single thing as I dont have the expertise to be sure enough...

I am suggesting it could have been ONE thing or many .. like a domino effect.. thats all..... is that a terrible thing to do????... it was actually only what the herp vet said anyway....:shrugs:
 
diamondlil said:
I know how that can happen, my friend's red setter went away for heart tests and came back with no real answers and kennel cough which spread to her other dog and brand new puppy! Then she had to pay for the treatment for the kennel cough which had been caught at the vets!
Anyway, is your daughter's royal improving yet?
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well heres the interesting thing...

I personally feel they both are :) which is fabulous...

however im not counting my chickens before they are hathced.. i would be far more confident of their final outcome if i knew what this was...

all i can do is hope or pray they make it...


windsor is not here now... so we probably wont ever know the reasons... highly frustrating... its not appropriate i dont think to count anything out... even the vet said this....

as i said all i was doing was surmising and wondering not making a definitive reason...

thanks for asking lil:).. its easy to forget there are stil TWO snakes .. of mine and one of elles trying to make a recovery here...
 
what i meant was, snakes especially royals, can go months and months without eating. they slow bodily functions down which allows them to do this. so eating wouldnt be a factor. i have had youngsters who have to be force fed because i didnt want to lose them, today they are big strapping snakes. so feeding wouldnt come into it really. sporadic feeding is how snakes work!!!
 
enigma said:
what i meant was, snakes especially royals, can go months and months without eating. they slow bodily functions down which allows them to do this. so eating wouldnt be a factor. i have had youngsters who have to be force fed because i didnt want to lose them, today they are big strapping snakes. so feeding wouldnt come into it really. sporadic feeding is how snakes work!!!
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OK i wil let the vet know.... HE suggested it.. NOT ME... he MUST be wrong... I shall let him know tomorrow.. thanks for your info :)
 
klootie said:
if i asked my vet every single question everyone wanted an answer to i would need probably TWO full appointments.. costing me a further £70 ( $160)
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There are many questions I'd like to ask the vet who treated Windsor (obviously, as his previous owner, with the repeated and clear implication on this forum and privately that his illness came from me and my collection, or my husbandry of the snake during his time here). I would be more than willing to pay consultation fees to see him to ask these questions, if I am allowed to speak to him especially regarding Windsor's case for answers. I can only hope that this is allowed at some point, because there ARE a lot of points that have been made that I would love to clarify, if only for furthering my own knowledge.

Personally, if I was specifically told tests would be carried out before antibiotic treatment and they were not, I would refuse to pay for them if no results come back as they're pretty much useless after antibiotics have been administered.
 
diamondlil said:
I thought it was the black milk, the royal and the carpet? There hasn't been another lost?
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if u re-read i said.. two of mine and one of elles... sorry if that info got a wee bitty lost in the post

xxxxx

right bed time for me...... getting late over here folks xxxxxx :wavey:
 
no problem. i only mentioned it as i asked my vet about this while speaking to him on phone. he is a top rep vet. has worked with snakes in africa, and travels the country to differant zoo's working on their animals and reptiles. HE would discount sporadic feeding.
 
toyah said:
There are many questions I'd like to ask the vet who treated Windsor (obviously, as his previous owner, with the repeated and clear implication on this forum and privately that his illness came from me and my collection, or my husbandry of the snake during his time here). I would be more than willing to pay consultation fees to see him to ask these questions, if I am allowed to speak to him especially regarding Windsor's case for answers. I can only hope that this is allowed at some point, because there ARE a lot of points that have been made that I would love to clarify, if only for furthering my own knowledge.

Personally, if I was specifically told tests would be carried out before antibiotic treatment and they were not, I would refuse to pay for them if no results come back as they're pretty much useless after antibiotics have been administered.
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Im not refusing to pay for anything... I am annoyed yes..... but I have still paid... they KNOW im not happy.. they realise it was a mistake....

I have never said the ilness came form you.... .. what I said is what the vet mentioned perhaps the problem with windsors eating contributed.. .. .... windsor not eating could only have been his issue... if he was not happy then maybe he was a very very sensitive snake... i know some are more sensitive to changes and temps and movement than others...

I know i discussed with you when u asked me honestly about the temps in your house i said i felt it was cool.. i only answered honestly and did not have a dig at your husbandry...

I see you have now installed a heater in your rep room which is fab... :)

who knows why it happened... i dont.. and as far as I know al your other animals are in prefect health so if its only windsor that got unwell which it seems to definately be then I wouldnt worry about your temps or husbandry..

maybe a sensitive snake ( IF windsor was this) might have needed something none of us could provide.. who knows...

I might have tried changing temps both ambient and contact.. moving him rooms... and a million other things and id stil never have gotten him to eat..

IM sure you did everything possible in your power and more when you had him... we al do things differently... ive made plenty of mistakes in retrospect i realised...


even if we never admit them publically im sure within rep keeping and LIFE in general we ALL make mistakes we learn from...

thats the beauty of self awareness and willingness to be vurnerable
 
enigma said:
no problem. i only mentioned it as i asked my vet about this while speaking to him on phone. he is a top rep vet. has worked with snakes in africa, and travels the country to differant zoo's working on their animals and reptiles. HE would discount sporadic feeding.
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IMG]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/stramash/windsor/DSCF5070.jpg[/IMG]

this was the pic of windsor toyah took during the summer.... end of maybe July i think...

bear in mind this was not him at his lowest weight...

I have shown this pic to other keepers and breeders interested in this situation and they have said... he does look really quite poorly :(

So does your vet who COMPLETELY DISCOUNTS PROBELM FEEDING.... think this snake would not have been more susceptable to disease or ilness...

if so thats VERY interesting...

so it seems to me then.. that even the specialists cant agree.. if THEY CANT what in hell chance do we have really....


so this time realy nite nite LOL
 
oop sorry

pic is here


DSCF5070.jpg
 
klootie said:
I have never said the ilness came form you....
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No, I know you haven't, Lynn.

klootie said:
I know i discussed with you when u asked me honestly about the temps in your house i said i felt it was cool.. i only answered honestly and did not have a dig at your husbandry...
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I know most of the flat is cool, and that is why we don't keep snakes in most of the flat - I couldn't stand the whole place being the same ambient temperature as the snake room. It's not really anything to do with animal husbandry, unless you think the kitty cats are too cold!

As I said, the snake room was always fine for the snakes we had, until the beginning of September when the weather changed, when we added another heater into the snake room, on top of the central heating which has always been on in that room (and only very rarely in the rest of the flat).

Again, I just hope that I have the opportunity to discuss this all with the vet involved at some time, at my own cost, with copies of the reports and details of tests done on Windsor.
 
toyah said:
No, I know you haven't, Lynn.



I know most of the flat is cool, and that is why we don't keep snakes in most of the flat - I couldn't stand the whole place being the same ambient temperature as the snake room. It's not really anything to do with animal husbandry, unless you think the kitty cats are too cold!

As I said, the snake room was always fine for the snakes we had, until the beginning of September when the weather changed, when we added another heater into the snake room, on top of the central heating which has always been on in that room (and only very rarely in the rest of the flat).

Again, I just hope that I have the opportunity to discuss this all with the vet involved at some time, at my own cost, with copies of the reports and details of tests done on Windsor.
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AWWWW no kittys were fine LOL

but i think i remember you asking me if i thought the snake room was chilly.. to which i am sure i said this.....


well yes it was .....but you have them all on heat mats...

I also metioned Scott my ex-partner felt this too...

But hey ho.. maybe were just very over-sensitive to temps

GOD DID I POST AGAIN.....

i said nite nite ages back...


im so inconsistent!!!!!
 
he completely discounts it as contributing to the ri. in actual fact an ri can cause non feeding, but non feeding cant cause an ri. to be honest he is the best in his field. and has my total 100% trust because of what he did for a snake of mine.
 
klootie said:
this was the pic of windsor toyah took during the summer.... end of maybe July i think...

bear in mind this was not him at his lowest weight...

I have shown this pic to other keepers and breeders interested in this situation and they have said... he does look really quite poorly :(
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That photo was taken on the 29th May according to my records - and would have been almost exactly at his lowest weight, as I had only assist fed him once at that point. It is a quick snap in poor lighting of a snake that was asleep, when I'd just lifted his hide up to take a photo of him - not a photo where I'd woke him up, got his attention, posed him a bit, showed him off at his best.

I'm sorry, but anyone who claims to be able to judge his health and condition from one photo of that quality, is, and I say this with the upmost respect to the people involved, talking out of their arse, or simply saying what you want to hear.

For an actual third party thought on his condition during July, or thereabouts ... two well respected and experienced royal python breeders saw him during July, and agreed that he looked fine, and with enough excess body weight that I should stop assist feeding him, as he would eat on his own when he was hungry enough. I have to comment that they decided this by handling and looking at him, not by having a quick glance at one photo online!
 
to be honest, he looks good in the picture. he looks in quite good condition really. i have seen snakes lots worse than this.
 
Hang on though, surely all this is conjecture, without results from the vet's autopsy?
In any case, temperature at Toyah's,and the feeding issues are by-the-by, because he had no RI symptoms until he'd been back with Elle for 2 months?
 
thats right. i dont know what the game is here, but he was at elles for a few weeks before he got this ri. she says he was given antibiotics for a week, then taken to vet. my understanding is an ri is extremely serious, and the rep should be isolated right away, and taken to vet right away. snakes only have one lung that really works, so it should be treated by an experienced vet as soon as symptoms are noticed. not a week later.
look at the picture above, does that snake look ill to you, cause he sure as hell doesnt to me. and that was taken by toyah.
 
Honestly, I have no boid experience, and thankfully no RI experience (yet, fingers crossed),but from what I've read it usually progresses very fast from an initial problem, even from a fault in heating for a couple of days. Would that be right?
 
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