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The humanity of shoebox keeping?

You accused a bunch of people of attacking you... but you're being very passive aggressive (such as telling us to take a biology course or start dressing our snakes). And I don't think that you're doing wrong by your animals... I just think that maybe their like vines and other things.... and some of what I was saying isn't really based on snakes... yes I think they have lesser brain function and are therefore less likely to feel emotions. But I think in general animals can feel things like fear, depression, excitement... and to me those are (although basic) emotions.
 
Well it also can depend on hte snake. My corns are really not that well smart. They don't do a who lot. But my asian rats are like children. You have to pamper them or they crash and burn.
 
I don't believe anyone is directly attacking you. You pointed out two examples saying someone (probably me) said you fed too much and kept them in too small a tub. I did not specifically say anyone feeds too much...just that we as keepers tend to feed more than a snake would normally in the wild. They are biologically and pyhsiologically geared to having periods of no food on their stomachs. Just as horses are geared to having food on their stomachs all the time. When we feed weekly, we feel better...the snake may not. And what exactly is "growing normally"? Snakes in the wild grow much more slowly than our in captivity. They generally are much lighter in weight as well. When I started breeding green tree pythons, I was told that the ultimate breeding weight was 800-1000 grams. I feed every 2-3 weeks as I experienced a prolapse in one of my animals. Even at 5 years old, she wasn't 800 grams and there was no way she would be unless she was fat. The average weight of a wild caught gravid green tree python? 500-600 grams! Who decided that a chondro should be an 800 gram fat pig??? We did...and now we think that is "normal". My 4 year old corn weighs just over 300 grams and is being bred for the first time. If I had fed her weekly, she would easily have been at 300 grams at 3 years old or sooner. However, I think overall that waiting and allowing maturity beats out a fast breeding schedule. Is it wrong to breed earlier? Probably not. Do snakes do it and still live long lives? Sure. Do I feel it's in MY animals' best interest? Not anymore. I'd much rather wait now that I've studied more about snakes in the wild and what I'm seeing of adults in the wild. I personally don't think they have an emotional experience as far as housing them, but I do think they can be enriched in a habitat that allows them more space and stimuli. That has nothing to do with emotion, it has to do with what will help an animal live a more fulfilled life according to it's needs as a species.
 
I don't know wether snakes feel emotions. Probably not like mammals do no.
I tend to consider feelings like "feeling comfortable" or "not being at ease" an emotion. Maybe I don't have the same definition for emotions as some.

As for the vines and stuff, what it *can* do, is give your snake some exercise. Especially when you change them once in a while. They do roam around more when the enclosure is rearranged, so I guess that to be a positive thing for the animal.
Out of 15, I have only one that is almost always in the same spot. So I like to give them the opportunity to crawl around, just in case.

Do they like it? I think so, but who could ever be sure.
Are snakes in tubs worse of? Only when they have an irresponsible owner. No fault in the tub I believe.
I think giving them more space makes a difference to the snake, but is in no way a basic need, as there are many people who keep them in tubs and have beautifull, healthy, thriving snakes.
 
wade said:
Enjoyment requires a certain amount of intelligence. I don't think snakes are smart enough to enjoy themselves. I don't think they are smart enough to be bored. I think they know when they are hungry or cold and that is about it.
Click to expand...

I'm with you wade, but I'd like to add horny with males in the spring. Nothing like a twitchy male trying to hump your arm. lol

Just in case I'm wrong I let my snakes watch Barney from their tubs.
 
Michael823 said:
No one can say with certainty that snakes don't have emotions, ...
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Yet. Snakes DO have the brain structures that in mammals are used for the most basic emotions like fear & hunger. Neurobiology calls these structures the "reptilian" brain because the mammal brain is like an onion, with evolutionarily newer structures layered ON TOP of evolutionarily older structures.

Functional MRI of the brain allows the researcher to see what part of the brain is active under a particular condition. Sooner or later someone will apply fMRI to snakes, and one of the questions that has to be asked is whether the reptile brain shows the same activation pattern as the "reptilian" part of the mammal brain under similar circumstances.

If those studies get done, and I bet they will, we will be able to say with certainty that snakes have brain activity patterns that indicate they probably do have emotions.
 
You of course realize that onion.com is a whole spoof thing right? It's hilarious of course! I think I'll go show my snakes pictures of them being born, growing up, screwing another snake and then dying. I think that I can do it given time....who knows...if they die, I'll have had success!
 
Nu uh.....I read about it in the news...it must be real....I loved the part about "we were going to get a lock for the cage...I mean a door and then a lock"
 
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