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Tree Boas and Pythons

Jadie.Glitch

Jadie.Glitch

:) colubridstudios.com :)
I think we've fallen in love with them... I don't want to breed, but I think we do want to get at least one tree-dweller one of these days. I got my husband a baby ball python a couple years back, but he didn't realize he wasn't going to get so fat and wormy, and he's not quite what he was looking for. He's always going to be our Fushigisou though, but he's mine now and I think I want to get my husband something a little fancier looking (and if he loses interest in that then guess who has a new Tree Boa or Python.. that's right, me! :D It's win/win)

Now we can't get one for quite awhile due to financial issues we're trying to remedy right now (we almost got completely out of snakes due to this but things are looking up), but I want to learn everything I can about them before-hand so we know if we're making a smart decision in getting one or not.

Question #1: Why do I keep seeing so many different shades of Green Tree Python? Aren't they supposed to be green? :shrugs:

Question #2: We're going to be making an arboreal viv for it, but does this need to be a screened-in viv, or can it be metal and glass (with vents of course)

Question #3: Which is a better choice? I'm leaning towards the Amazon Tree Boa (Garden Phase, maybe?)

Question #4: I don't think we want to spend more than like $250 shipped for it; any suggestions on morphs to look for?

Question #5: The smaller the better, are they all approximately the same size, or are there smaller varieties?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions along the way...
 
Green Tree Pythons undergo a ontogenetic color change as they mature. Hatchlings start out as either yellow or brick red with various shades in between. When they reach 3-6 months, they start turning green. The time it takes to turn completely green, or whatever combination of colors, varies depending on the individual. :}

Also, supposedly, Green Tree Pythons actually don't have any green pigment. It's a combination of blue pigmentation in the skin and a yellow reflective, translucent layer of pigmentation over that. That's why you see blue, yellow, and combos of these colors with green.
 
I am no expert, but have kept a Green Tree Python... If it's okay, I'll first answer each question and then toss a few things to consider...

1) Well, you're right... but there are several things to consider: locality- the locality from which the snake came effects pigments- usually, the climate and ecological environment can cause the same species develop in slightly different ways to be best suited for their environment.

Also, breeders tend to prefer one look over another, and line-breed good looking animals, repeating the process over several generations ensures the accumulation of enough genes to produce a certain "look".

Lastly, diversity is one of God's/Nature's gifts :)

2) Actually, for a GTP or any other arboreal snake I would advise -not- going with screen vivs- glass would be perfect. Most arboreal snakes, especially Green Tree Pythons and Emerald Tree Boas, require high levels of humidity- something which can only be obtained(easily) properly in plastic/glass vivs.

3) Amazon Tree Boas are a wonderful choice- they are the least sensitive to humidity changes, and are generally more sturdy. You do need to know however that arboreal snakes tend to be high-strung, and are a bit notorious for being aggressive. Most of them are not your typical "on hands" snake either, they are more clingy...
It's a matter of taste, of course.. and very few snakes can compete with how spectacular they are visually.

4) I think sticking to Amazon Tree Boas is indeed most relevant in that case... high-quality Green Tree Pythons and Emerald Tree Boas usually cost more than that(last time I saw). As for morph... just seek out until you find something you like... currently there are two known morphs- Candycane and Tigers, which cost way more than that. The beauty of Amazon Tree Boas is however that the pigment is quite random and therefore it is possible to get amazing "normals" quite cheaply.

5) They are all relatively small, Amazon Tree Boas being the most slender and smallest of the "classical arboreals".

6) Green Tree Pythons start out as either maroon or yellow, in some lines, maroon babies cost a tad more... but it usually doesn't indicate -that- much.
You can't really tell which of the parents they will end up like... after all, 50% of each parent now resides in each offspring.
Females will usually become blue during mating season... it is due to hormones... very few GTP's end up being blue all the time... those few that do remain blue cost -allot-.

Now... taking on an arboreal snake means you are taking on an animal that is more dependent on you than most snakes are- they will -need- your care and alertness- humidity regulation is essential, and means you will need to be there to do so by misting (making vacations an issue sometimes- though you can set up some electrical humidity regulation system- but it's not too cheap).
They are different from more classic snakes... their behavior is slightly different, they can be aggressive, and holding them is quite a different experience.

I suggest you go out and try to get hands on experience before making the choice.

This is not said in order to deter you- just trying to save you unneeded frustration in case your mind isn't entirely made up. I have had a GTP... for a year, and it was a unique experience... but I sold her... keeping her required far more regulation and maintenance, she was aggressive- and even though I -could- hold her... I always had to be on my toes.

I suggest you go out and try and see if you can visit a breeder- try holding neonates and adults...

and read caresheets.

Once you choose one species over another, it will be easier for people to help you.

Good luck!
 
ALL awesome advice and things are a bit more clear now.

Kokopelli said:
This is not said in order to deter you- just trying to save you unneeded frustration in case your mind isn't entirely made up. I have had a GTP... for a year, and it was a unique experience... but I sold her... keeping her required far more regulation and maintenance, she was aggressive- and even though I -could- hold her... I always had to be on my toes.
Click to expand...

Meaning once you had her on you she'd still try to strike??? I've never experienced this with my other snakes so I guess I never considered the possibility. Sometimes my snakes will strike when I reach my hand into the viv, tub, or the feeding box, but AS SOON as they know it's me or I have them in my arms their whole demeanor changes and they aren't cranky anymore.

We're you meaning that she'd strike you even while holding her?
 
Yes, even when I held her, I had to be cautious.
It's not to say that she was mean... but I like being casual with my snakes(yes, even kiss them on the top of their head)- with GTP's and Amazon Tree Boas... well... I am more likely to be kissed by teeth in return... it makes sense, these are fragile animals that need to deal with quite a few predators...

This isn't -universal-... but most breeders I spoke with agree that there's a general slightly higher tendency for aggressiveness among these species- but there -are- docile snakes out there of that species... they are simply not as common as docile cornsnakes for instance.

My heart belongs to Boa Constrictors- I simply find them to be the perfect snakes for me- good size, wonderful temperament and a joy to handle.
 
As always, FANTASTIC advice and answers Oren. I'm glad I read that before I started typing up my own, as I don't think I have anything to add...

And yes, Oren is correct. The GTPs, ETBs, and ATBs tend to be aggressive critters and are generally considered 'display only' animals. I have an ATB (I'm actually looking to sell her...I was going to respond to your want ad, but then wasn't sure how you would feel about a cranky snake) who is very grumpy. She can be held, but I usually don't handle her outside of moving her to clean her viv. When I do handle her, I start out wearing leather gloves to get her out, and then occasionally take them off, depending on the nature of the handling (stuck shed, just a 'social' visit, etc.). I have to be VERY careful not to make any sudden movements, as that would be a guaranteed way to get tagged (and they have rather large teeth for their size, although it doesn't hurt too bad).

Also, handling for these guys can cause undue stress. They are, for the most part, a lot easier stressed than a corn or a king. They much prefer to just be left alone and given the proper care.

Like Oren stated, none of this is to discourage or deter you, just ideas to think about. If you're okay with just having a display critter, then go for it! :)

Edit: Oren, you type too fast! You managed to sneak in another post before me! Yet more great advice, I like what you said about being 'casual'. I'm the exact same way, which is why I, too, prefer my Boa constrictors. :D
 
Hmm, those are all good points to think about. I will pass this information on to the hubby and see what he thinks.

I think he's looking for: something beautiful, that stays small, and tolerates being held. I know someone is going to pop up and say "Oo a corn snake!" but for some reason they just don't do anything for him.

Personally I'm not deterred at all, in fact I'm actually more interested. I always feel guilty not taking all my snakes out to play and stretch out and it can become tedious. The thought of a beautiful animal that wants nothing more than to sit on their stick and be left alone is appealing to me, but I know my husband wants something handle-able.

Any suggestions?
 
Jadie.Glitch said:
but I know my husband wants something handle-able.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Dwarf/island locality boa?? Caulker Cay, Crawl Cay, etc.

That's a Caulker Cay in my avatar. He was about 6 months old in that pic. Now, at 9 months, he weighs a whopping 80g and shouldn't be much more than 3-3 1/2 ft as an adult.
 
Very interesting reading about these guys. They're definitely beautiful!

How do they compare in size to a ball python?
 
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Jadie.Glitch said:
Very interesting reading about these guys. They're definitely beautiful!

How do they compare in size to a ball python?
Click to expand...

They are usually bigger... though Caulker cay's and Corn Isle Boas are around that size... I prefer them a tad bigger than that.
 
Hmm, we were hoping for thinner, but that is all a ton of awesome info! I've got my homework ahead of me :D. I'll post on this thread when we decide what we're doing.
 
Jadie.Glitch said:
Hmm, those are all good points to think about. I will pass this information on to the hubby and see what he thinks.

I think he's looking for: something beautiful, that stays small, and tolerates being held. I know someone is going to pop up and say "Oo a corn snake!" but for some reason they just don't do anything for him.

Personally I'm not deterred at all, in fact I'm actually more interested. I always feel guilty not taking all my snakes out to play and stretch out and it can become tedious. The thought of a beautiful animal that wants nothing more than to sit on their stick and be left alone is appealing to me, but I know my husband wants something handle-able.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
If you want something thats beautiful, stays small and tolerates being held... And ... Arboreal... great display snake.... And.... Humidity isn't an issue..... Jungle carpet python....
Obviously this depends on what you mean by 'stays small'
 
Stays small: close to the length of a Ball Python, close to the thinness of a Corn Snake. We were thinking Amazon Tree Boa (I know they're longer than a BP but they're also skinnier than a Corn Snake so it kinda balanced out), but want more of a handle-able snake as opposed to a display piece.
 
Jungle Carpet Pythons get much bigger than an ATB or corn snake. They are great snakes but they will get 8 to 10' long and as big around as my arm, and I'm a big guy.

ATB would be a great choice as far as the size you are after but they will never be a lap dog. They will be nippy.
 
snakewispera snr said:
Irian Jaya carpet then...... And jungles are fairly small Wade...
Click to expand...

Mike, I know the Welsh are prone to brag about size, but what do you consider small. I had a female JCP that was 10' a might have weighed 40 poiunds. I thought she was big. Of course that is by my standards.
 
wade said:
Mike, I know the Welsh are prone to brag about size, but what do you consider small. I had a female JCP that was 10' a might have weighed 40 poiunds. I thought she was big. Of course that is by my standards.
Click to expand...

I must admit that I agree with Mike, Jungles 'tend' to be a relitively small species of carpet which average about 5-6 ft. However they are probably larger than what the OP was wanting.
I would be amazed to see a 10 ft Jcp, is it possible that it was actually a JCP X CCP?

Onto the OPs question, ATBs I believe are 'supposed' to be the most aggressive out of those you listed. ETBs have the biggest teeth and are larger but I believe 'can' be slightly less aggressive, especially the Basins. I would have thought however that you would not be able to pick up any type of ETB for that price, I'm not sure of GTP prices over there but I would think that they cost a bit more than that?

If your looking at arboreals then there aren't many types of true arboreals that are around, especially that have easier maintainance.
 
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