Unemployment in the US

[wade]

Unemployment was never meant to be an alternative income. That is what is has become. It was supposed to be just enough to tide you over until you find another job. As it is now you can extend it out to almost a year.

I know a lady, mid 50s, worked all her life, lives alone, professional woman. She got fired and lost her job. She has been on unemployment for 3 months now and is not looking for work. She said she wants to spend the spring months working in her garden and she sees no hurry to rush into a new job. She is not a dead beat but she is working the system. If you make Unemployment desirable enough there is incentive to work.

 

[starsevol]

I agree that people with experience & education are not going to want to take a McJob. But if their previous "career" is in an industry that is GONE, they may need to take a McJob while they figure out what training to get or what direction to go. I don't think the unemployed are generally moochers. Some small number probably are, but it's NOT many.

I would have been very happy to see an extension to unemployment that did NOT increase the deficit get passed. The Congresscritters should have CUT SPENDING somewhere else, because unemployment benefits are actually, IMHO, one of the BEST spending things the government does. By definition, it goes to people who were working and who are looking (at least somewhat) for work. They paid taxes before, and they will pay taxes again once they get a job. So cut some of the earmarks and pork and spend that money on extending unemployment.

What SHE said! Sometimes even if you have the best education and the most experiance in your chosen field, you have to do whatever it takes to feed your family and pay your bills...and when it's a McJob or nothing, you take the McJob!

And like Betsy, I can think of many OTHER things that I would rather see cut than unemployment...

 

[starsevol]

Unemployment was never meant to be an alternative income. That is what is has become. It was supposed to be just enough to tide you over until you find another job. As it is now you can extend it out to almost a year.

I know a lady, mid 50s, worked all her life, lives alone, professional woman. She got fired and lost her job. She has been on unemployment for 3 months now and is not looking for work. She said she wants to spend the spring months working in her garden and she sees no hurry to rush into a new job. She is not a dead beat but she is working the system. If you make Unemployment desirable enough there is incentive to work.

I also know someone....my cousin's husband has been with the company for 10 years. The higher ups changed his schedule and he was unhappy because his new schedule would have cut into his "family and community service" time. He voiced his dissent, and was promptly let go.
He and my cousin are delighted, the company gave him a "package", and the very first thing they are doing is taking a vacation to New Hampshire.
They have 2 kids.....

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Unemployment was never meant to be an alternative income. That is what is has become. It was supposed to be just enough to tide you over until you find another job. As it is now you can extend it out to almost a year.

I know a lady, mid 50s, worked all her life, lives alone, professional woman. She got fired and lost her job. She has been on unemployment for 3 months now and is not looking for work. She said she wants to spend the spring months working in her garden and she sees no hurry to rush into a new job. She is not a dead beat but she is working the system. If you make Unemployment desirable enough there is incentive to work.

I also know someone....my cousin's husband has been with the company for 10 years. The higher ups changed his schedule and he was unhappy because his new schedule would have cut into his "family and community service" time. He voiced his dissent, and was promptly let go.
He and my cousin are delighted, the company gave him a "package", and the very first thing they are doing is taking a vacation to New Hampshire.
They have 2 kids.....

These are individual cases of either people who have enough saved up to coast on for some time or people who are short-term thinkers. That was NOT how my family reacted to my mother's unemployment and it's not how they reacted to mine, either. I've applied everywhere within 30minutes of driving that will hire under 18 since January and not even gotten a call back, so now I'm starting to drive out further for work. I have little reason to believe, given the economy in the state it is and with such high unemployment, that your anecdotal strawmen are the majority, and even if they were, wouldn't it be worth it to you to extend unemployment for the families who are scrounging together every penny to stay afloat even if 5 other people use it to take extended vacations? Would you shut down a soup kitchen that was sucking up government funds because out of 100 starving homeless people, men women and children, 300 people looking for a free lunch showed up?

 

[ceduke]

These are individual cases of either people who have enough saved up to coast on for some time or people who are short-term thinkers.

You are an individual case as well. What makes you think you represent the majority if you dismiss other individual cases as exceptions?

 

[starsevol]

These are individual cases of either people who have enough saved up to coast on for some time or people who are short-term thinkers. That was NOT how my family reacted to my mother's unemployment and it's not how they reacted to mine, either. I've applied everywhere within 30minutes of driving that will hire under 18 since January and not even gotten a call back, so now I'm starting to drive out further for work. I have little reason to believe, given the economy in the state it is and with such high unemployment, that your anecdotal strawmen are the majority, and even if they were, wouldn't it be worth it to you to extend unemployment for the families who are scrounging together every penny to stay afloat even if 5 other people use it to take extended vacations? Would you shut down a soup kitchen that was sucking up government funds because out of 100 starving homeless people, men women and children, 300 people looking for a free lunch showed up?

In my case my cousin and her husband are paying a mortgage and have recently taken out a loan to redo their kitchen. She makes very little money babysitting. They are short term thinkers.

Why do you think you can't find a job? Might it be that busnesses aren't hiring because they can't afford to hire? And how would adding to the long-term tax burden help that problem?

And no, it would definately NOT be worth it to me to extend unemployment to benefit one family if 5 others use that money for extended vacations. Not worth it at all....

 

[starsevol]

You are an individual case as well. What makes you think you represent the majority if you dismiss other individual cases as exceptions?

What SHE said!!! ^^^^^

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

In my case my cousin and her husband are paying a mortgage and have recently taken out a loan to redo their kitchen. She makes very little money babysitting. They are short term thinkers.

Why do you think you can't find a job? Might it be that busnesses aren't hiring because they can't afford to hire? And how would adding to the long-term tax burden help that problem?

And no, it would definately NOT be worth it to me to extend unemployment to benefit one family if 5 others use that money for extended vacations. Not worth it at all....

People are always going to find ways to abuse the system, no matter what. Blocking it and putting barriers against it will only make the liars get better at lying and hurt the honest families. You can be butthurt all you want about people doing it and I don't blame you, it steams my broccoli too, but it ices my cupcakes more when people assume that everyone who is unemployed is just like their lazy/dumb/short-sighted/whatever negative adjective you wanna put in brother/cousin/friend/friend of a friend/etc and wants to punish them... without realizing that it punishes the people who need it, too. In a perfect world we wouldn't even need unemployment, because everyone would have a job that makes them happy, but we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a violent, dirty, scummy world where the good people get stepped on and the bad people just learn to dodge the clumsy feet of Washington, and everyone's just trying to get by how they can.

And yeah, I understand the reason businesses aren't hiring, but they aren't going to even think about it until some more money starts flowing into the economy, which will only happen when people can afford to spend the money on things other than food and gas and electricity. The problem is where the money comes from. And maybe I don't know how to figure that out, but obviously neither does anyone else in the country, including our politicians regardless of political agenda.

 

[starsevol]

Who says I'm "butthurt"? (charming little expression btw, real classy....)

Based on what I know of the economy, and running a business, I have no problem with unemployment not being extended. I would prefer cuts in other areas, but a savings is a savings. YOU appear to be the one who is "butthurt" by this cut, not the rest of us.

 

[TandJ]

You are an individual case as well. What makes you think you represent the majority if you dismiss other individual cases as exceptions?

Indeed she is an individual..

Heck, I know a guy that makes as much money as me on a regular work day that dives through trash cans for recycables.. Not a bad way to pull in an extra $500 to $750 a week tax free.. Theres obviously a humilty problem isn't there..

 

[tsst]

... political agenda.

Some interesting quotes to ponder. The bold one seems particularly appropriate to this discussion.


"A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues."

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people."

"Character, in the long run, is the decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike."

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

"Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

"I think there is only one quality worse than hardness of heart and that is softness of head."

"It is difficult to make our material condition better by the best law, but it is easy enough to ruin it by bad laws."

"It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things."

"Rhetoric is a poor substitute for action, and we have trusted only to rhetoric. If we are really to be a great nation, we must not merely talk; we must act big."

"The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his own weight."

"The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants."

"The only time you really live fully is from thirty to sixty. The young are slaves to dreams; the old servants of regrets. Only the middle-aged have all their five senses in the keeping of their wits."

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life."

"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer "Present" or "Not guilty." "

"With self-discipline most anything is possible."

 

[wade]

I think we all tend to look at the world from our own perspective and find it difficult to see it from others. I’m an employer so I’m the guy who pays for unemployment. I’m the one who funds the system to help others survive when they are not working. Normally I don’t mind that. I except it as part of the cost of doing business. I have laid people off who have gone on unemployment. They usually don’t stay there long and find work somewhere else. Did you know that when one of my employees files for unemployment, my unemployment rates go up and I have to pay more? Did you know that employees don’t contribute to unemployment, it all comes out of the employer’s pocket?

Lexie, you said that you mother gets “250 a week on unemployment, that’s 500 a month.” Should have stayed in school. Did you know that is a lot less than minimum wage? If your mother has been unemployed for 2 years, just think of how much money she could have had if she had gotten a McJob.

The thing I see is that jobs a tough right now. If you are going to be real picky you probably won’t find a job. If you have a bad job history and can’t get a good reference from former employers, you probably won’t find a job. But I truly believe that if you are of average intelligence and don’t have tattoos all over your body and don’t have your face full of nails and spikes, you can find a job and can feed your family if that is what you really want to do.

My industry has been clobbered by the economy but I still hire new people from time to time. My wife is a banker and she is always looking for new tellers. She starts tellers out at $10/hour. That’s a lot better than $500/ month. There are jobs out there, they just may not be your number one career goal.

 

[wade]

Did you know that as an employer after I pay into unemployment for years and years and then run out of work that I am not eligible for unemployment.

 

[wstphal]

And yeah, I understand the reason businesses aren't hiring, but they aren't going to even think about it until some more money starts flowing into the economy, which will only happen when people can afford to spend the money on things other than food and gas and electricity. The problem is where the money comes from. And maybe I don't know how to figure that out, but obviously neither does anyone else in the country, including our politicians regardless of political agenda.

You're right about the politicians not figuring things out. But the money thing has to be a little bit obvious -- the government needs to spend money on IMPORTANT THINGS not unimportant things. Umemployment is, in my mind, one of the MOST important things. But money is NOT infinite, not even government money. Government money comes from you, your dad, your mom, me, Wade, Chris, Beth, and everybody else who is working or has worked. So if unemployed people need unemployment benefits extended thru the use of Federal tax money, the Federal government needs to cut SOMETHING ELSE.

I have said a number of times that I think unemployment benefits SHOULD HAVE been extended. I am not trying to take food out of your mouth, or hurt your mom, or anyone else unemployed you know. I just know that government money does NOT grow on trees or mysteriously appear out of thin air, it comes out of OUR pockets, and I'd to see it spend wisely on things that really help people, and unemployment benefits are actually one of the best.

I am sorry you think the rest of us want to take food out of the mouths of starving unemployed people.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

I think we all tend to look at the world from our own perspective and find it difficult to see it from others. I’m an employer so I’m the guy who pays for unemployment. I’m the one who funds the system to help others survive when they are not working. Normally I don’t mind that. I except it as part of the cost of doing business. I have laid people off who have gone on unemployment. They usually don’t stay there long and find work somewhere else. Did you know that when one of my employees files for unemployment, my unemployment rates go up and I have to pay more? Did you know that employees don’t contribute to unemployment, it all comes out of the employer’s pocket?

Lexie, you said that you mother gets “250 a week on unemployment, that’s 500 a month.” Should have stayed in school. Did you know that is a lot less than minimum wage? If your mother has been unemployed for 2 years, just think of how much money she could have had if she had gotten a McJob.

The thing I see is that jobs a tough right now. If you are going to be real picky you probably won’t find a job. If you have a bad job history and can’t get a good reference from former employers, you probably won’t find a job. But I truly believe that if you are of average intelligence and don’t have tattoos all over your body and don’t have your face full of nails and spikes, you can find a job and can feed your family if that is what you really want to do.

My industry has been clobbered by the economy but I still hire new people from time to time. My wife is a banker and she is always looking for new tellers. She starts tellers out at $10/hour. That’s a lot better than $500/ month. There are jobs out there, they just may not be your number one career goal.

Wade, I don't know what minimum wage in Utah is, but here it's $7.25/hr, and I easily made $500/month working part time with very few hours at my last job. If I were on my own, I'd be cutting it extremely tight on those wages. Assuming I could find a VERY low-rent apartment somewhere, I might pay $300 a month for rent. Now I have $200 left. Next I have to pay for my car insurance and thankfully, since I inherited it paid-off from my great grandfather, no car payments, $125. Now I have $75 left to buy food and gas, and if I get in an accident or need to go to the doctor/hospital, I'm out. I'm done. But obviously in that situation, the solution would be to get a full-time job, or pick up more hours. But with unemployment you can't do that. Obviously working any other job would pay you more; that's the point. I never said unemployment paid enough to match a job, and as well it shouldn't. Which is exactly why we've been searching for such a long time, instead of sitting on our butts and pretending we're on vacation. As an employer, when you or your wife opens up a position, how many applications do you get? 10? 50? 100? All of those people need that job equally bad, but you can only hire one. So for every 5 positions available, 5 people get in, and 495 walk away to the next opening. You can multiply the number of applicants exponentially the fewer requirements in terms of education and training the job has.

 

[Lucille]

The thing I see is that jobs a tough right now. If you are going to be real picky you probably won’t find a job. If you have a bad job history and can’t get a good reference from former employers, you probably won’t find a job. But I truly believe that if you are of average intelligence and don’t have tattoos all over your body and don’t have your face full of nails and spikes, you can find a job and can feed your family if that is what you really want to do.

I agree. You may have to work at a job that does not appeal, or you may have to move, but there is work to be had. And you may consider moving, because some states have much more opportunity than others.



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