Clint Boyer said:
Joe, I agree for the most part but the knife cuts both ways. If there is no proof that they are pure, then there is no proof that they aren't pure.
I was told at one point (from a very reputable breeder) that before there was a market for corn babies that most were released into the wild, including the fabled "hunt club" area.
My point being, if you can't prove purity in any way then even hunt club snakes should be suspect.
There is absolutely no way for the purists view (right or wrong) to be maintained. Attempts can be made to the best of thier ability but proof, well there is none. Even locality isn't proof.
I can certainly see your point.
I think the idea of what constitutes a “Pure” Corn is different to many groups of people. We base a lot of our opinions on taxonomy studies that establish our subspecies. Many studies are done to get a name for themselves and eventually are changed by somebody else. It seems as if our Elaphe guttata guttata is no more and has been replaced by a new paper which as been accepted by those who make these types of decisions. I can not tell you how many subspecies names have been changed since I have been in this hobby. If they can be changed so easily, perhaps the study that established them in the first place was flawed. Intergrades is a gray area, that would be considered a hybrid if done in captivity.
A wild caught snake is a wild snake, that has been bred in the wild and its “Breeder” is “Mother Nature”. As soon as we take these wild snakes into captivity and we become the breeder, they are being manipulated by different factors and in time, they are not exactly like their wild counter parts. Every year, I select which snakes will be paired and which snakes that I hold back for future breeders. My guidelines as a breeder are completely different than Mother Natures.
Captive bred snakes should not be released into the wild in my opinion, but more importantly, in the opinions of scientist, who may have a voice in legislation that controls our ability to legally keep reptiles of any kind in captivity. It would be very easy for someone in a position to make recommendations to a legislative body, to use the release of captive bred snakes into the wild as a reason for us to not have them at all.
There are many types of proof. Statements are accepted as proof. These statements have to be weight as to their credibility. Statements can be about what people have done themselves, what they have witnessed and even what they have been told. Certain facts can be considered as proof. There are hundreds of threads on this forum that can be offered as proof of the obvious avenues of hybrid blood being introduced into the captive population of Corns. Every Snake Show that I have ever been to, has tons of proof, that this is occurring on a very regular basis. I have seen and know of many people that will sell a Creamcicle that looks like an Amel as an Amel. I have seen Wholesalers mix Creamcicles and Amels together and sell them as Amels to Pet Stores. The same exact thing happens with Hybrids and Normals.
The Ultra line has a lot of proof, but it came out at a time when people had already accepted that they were pure and invested a great deal of time into projects created with them. The Gray Rat Hybrid issue is not a new one. This has been a constant companion with this line for many years. Andy Barr bred a great deal of Hybrids. He sold most of them as hybrids, but also sold many of them as pure and it was later found out that they were actually hybrids. One of our most honored members, was sold Pure Corns purchased from Andy that were not pure at all. There are many Ultramels, Ultra Ghost and Ultramel Ghost that can be traced back to Barr and his hybrid line that contains the Ultra gene. A great deal of them, actually most of them, have been bred into our captive population of Corns from coast to coast. Some people try to say that theirs may not be a part of Barr’s Hybrid Ultra line, but how can anybody tell a pure Ultra from a Hybrid Ultra several generations later. They can not. The same is true with all other morphs of Corns so they get mixed together.
Just because a Corn is not sold as a hybrid is no proof that it is pure. You have to look at the entire pie and when you put all of the proof together it points very sharply at a great deal of hybrid blood in our captive population of Corns. I have never personally contributed to this, but I know that this is the status of our captive population and I accept it, and like Serp, I don‘t care. It is totally beyond our control. We are in no way trying to duplicate Mother Natures breeding goals. We can only work with what we have.
If you put a teaspoon of Indian Ink in a swimming pool, it will disappear in a short time, but it is still there. I see very strong proof, that many teaspoons of ink are being put into the pool all of the time, and it can be seen for awhile, but it also soon disappears. There is a lot of proof, it just depends on which proof some people select to accept and which they select to be false to help support what they want to be true.
