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Very lethargic... seems near death

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Our first corn barely lasted 2 weeks. We've had this one a little longer than that, and we thought he was doing really good. very active, good climber, nice and friendly. Until last night, when we took him out and he wasn't moving. he's still alive, but the only way i can get him to respond is to flip him over so he rights himself. for the past week or so, he's been hanging out in and around his water bowl a whole lot and rarely burrowing or hidng at all. Also, we noticed the other day that he wasn't always fully retracting his tongue, instead leaving the tip hanging out. I've heard that they get pretty lethargic around molting time, but like this? I didn't expect him to make it through the night, but so far this morning, he's been around his cage a little, but still behaving the same when handled.

what's the deal?

sorry for any runons... posting from my phone.
 
What temperatures is he kept in? Do you know what the first one died of, and is this one from the same place and in the same viv?
 
Definitely not signs of a shed did you get these corns from the same place? Like Janine asked are you using the same viv as th old one was in? Is he wheezing at all, feeding?

Sounds like this guy will pass, but don't let it discourage you:) Your corn source may be the issue maybe buying from a breeder is better. Could also be your temps though I doubt it unless they are waaaay to warm, could be the guy never fed, or the cage wasn't sterile from the last one. Sorry about your luck:(
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. Don't know why the first one died. I posted here, and the general consensus was that he was too little. Yes, this is the same viv, but we cleaned it, changed bedding, etc. in between. Maybe not good enough? Both came from PetCo. I know, I know.

I checked the temps when he started acting weird and got 75 on the cool side and 90 on the warm, on top of the hide.

I'll be honest, I haven't been fully changing his water the last few times, just topping it off. But that wouldn't do it, would it?

He's been eating fine, last fed him on Thursday. Have we been handling them too much? We'll take him out for half an hour or so every day. He's about 16" long, not sure of age.

He's still alive, though. I thought he was gone today when he didn't move at all over the course of six hours. I reached in and flipped him, and he was kinda moving his head to try to turn over, but he just seemed real, real weak. So after I righted him, I looked back over and he had moved to a different spot.

Any ideas about the recent change in behavior or tongue hanging out? Is that relevant at all?
 
How are you checking temps? 90 is too hot, I try to keep my hot side around 82 degrees. I measure using a digital thermometer or a laser temp thing ( I can't remember the real name).
 
90 degrees warm side is waaaay too hot, especially if that is from on *top* of the hide. Change his water fully. Especially as he's been laying in it, it could grow some icky bacteria.
 
You mention "hide" rather than "hides" - is the only hide down the hot end? I agree that 90 degrees on top of the hide is way too hot - it will be above that inside. Also if you have one of those dial-or stick on type thermometers, these can be as much as 10 degrees out either way.

In any case, 90 degrees is a danger point for Corns, and if that's the only hide in the tank then the Corn will seek out physical safety first and will prioritise that above overheating. It's possible for them to stay in a position that's too hot for them in captivity to the point where they are harmed - they can burn themselves badly on unshielded lights because they don't move away from them whe physical damage starts to happen. Nobody knows why this is, but it does happen.

I agree that water needs to be changed fully every few days. Topping up won't get rid of any bacteria. If a snake poops, then slides through the poop and through the water bowl, you'll have all sorts of nasties start to grow in there without you ever being aware of them.

I'd say that yes, the tongue being out is a very bad sign. It's a reflex to have it inside the mouth and only stick it outside when using it. The fact that it's permanently outside the mouth would indicate to me that the snake is losing control in some way.

Please keep us posted. Sorry that you're having such a tough time.
 
I agree that the high temperature could be causing major problems. I hope you can save this little one, but consistently high temperatures can cause neurological problems.
 
I've just reviewed your thread where you asked about the death of your previous Corn - if it's the same setup, then I'm more convinced that overheating is an issue. You're using a UTH and overhead lamp, with a single hide immediately below the lamp.

Ideally you need hides in warm, cool and intermediate zones and a thermostat on the UTH to prevent overheating (these can hit 110 degrees + if just plugged into the mains). The lamp is unnecessary and will only contribute further to overheating. Even when the warm end is held at 88 degrees, most of my Corns choose to spend their time at the cool end, only venturing to the warm end for digesting or if feeling unwell - having a choice of hides is vital to enable them to thermoregulate properly.

Did you invest in any changes to the setup after the discussion last time? Re-reading, we may not have emphasised the potential problems enough and I apologise if this is the case.
 
Hey guys, I posted earlier, but it screwed up for some reason, and I don't feel like typing the whole thing over again.

As far as temps, I haven't changed anything from before. I'm now measuring 85° both on top of the hide and under it (on top of the substrate). 77° on the cool side and 72° in the water. Getting these temps with an infrared thermometer. I've had the light off since last night, but I turned it back on a few hours ago.

So here's the deal: I came home from work, picked him up, and he was completely limp. I flipped him over in my hand and he resisted, so I put him back. He then started acting pretty normal, crawling, holding his head up, drinking water. So I tossed a pinkie in some warm water. He ate it! And he's been acting pretty normal since.

So do I really need a hide in the cool side? The reason I didn't change anything from before was because I figured he could hide in the substrate or under the water bowl.

Also, his eyes are crystal clear, but the black on his underside is looking real cloudy.

Thoughts?
 
I think you need to remove the lamp ASAP and get something to control your UTH still. I'm glad the little guy is still around, but that set-up needs some fine tuning.

Anything over 85 on the bottom of the tank below the substate is too hot so please get a thermostat or rheostat to avoid these high temps.

Change the water 2-3 times a week sanitizing the bowl at least once a week with 1 part bleach to 10 parts water- never top off!!

He may be dull because he's going into shed, but dullness is also a sign of illness. Considering his behavior I would go with the later and limit stress and handling for awhile

I would also suggest a hide on the cool side

How much of the UTH do you have under the tank? You only need 1/3-1/4 of the cage warmed so make sure no more of this is covered.
 
Put a hide on the cold side yes, just make it out of a kraft dinner box or something. Any appropriately sized cardboard will do. IF it eventually decides to hide under the water bowl, that is when you can take the cold side hide out.

But yes, give it an aboveground hide on both sides.
 
I just noticed you fed him Thursday- did you mean this past Thursday?
If so remember every 5-7 days is all they need and digesting takes a lot of energy for them. When their sick skipping a meal so they can reserve this energy and reduce stress is usually recommended:)
 
Ok, lots of questions...

Answers:

Aspen bedding.

Yes, I fed him this past Thursday, and again tonight. Monday/Thursday, twice a week. Now I'm hearing that's bad?? I thought I'd feed him again to give him some energy or something.

I'm tempted to leave him alone, but it seems every time I pick him up for a minute he perks up. So what should I do?

UTH covers about 1/4 of the bottom.

I've put a toilet paper tube on the cold side for him.

Also, in case it's relevant, I got pooped on last week, three days after a feeding.
 
Sorry, don't see any way to edit a message.

I've also unplugged the lamp. For reference, though, it was a 60W household, not a heat or basking lamp.
 
Feeding twice a week is bad news. Feed the snake every 6-7 days, a prey item that is between 1 and 1.5x the width of the snake. Anyways, they usually take about 48hrs to digest food completely, so also don't handle it for 2-3 days after feeding, no matter what.
 
Okay, when I first came here, it was recommended that I get the Corn Snake Manual. So I did, and now everyone is contradicting its information. It said little ones should be eating 1-2 times per week. It said 90-95°, you say 85 is tops.

So which is it?

And what's Nutribac?
 
The emphasis is on *one* to two times weekly. Because if you feed every 5 to 6 days for a young hatchling... sometimes that is once a week, sometimes twice. Feeding every mon/thursday is NOT a good plan. It's too soon between the meals.
 
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