What have we here? (proving an orange butter)

[antsterr]

This mystery started back in '07 when I picked up a strange little guy from a breeder selling an "orange butter?" (the label included a question mark). The story is, is that this fellow out of Calgary Alberta had bread 2 butters he claimed to have purchased directly from Rich Z and produced 8 regular looking butters plus this fellow.

So trying to figure out if this guys is just a regular butter with strange colours or is something else I bred him back in '09 to a bloodred. She produced only 5 fertile eggs and 3 of them died in incubation. The two that survived were females, supposedly het butter bloodred.

This year I bred normal het butter bloodred #1 (Oscarmayer) to a normal het golddust bloodred.
She produced 3 bloodreds, 3 caramels, 2 ultramel bloodreds and 4 normals.
Ok, so the caramels are proof that "Orange Butter" genuinely had butter genes.

Two days ago I started hatching out normal het butter bloodred #2 (Isabelle) back to her father. Here is what we got:

I've never produced butters before, maybe I can get some input on if these guys look butter to you?

I have no caramels amongst the non-amel ones (or at least non that look it, maybe I'll be able to see better after their first shed) but a few of them look to me to be snows. Snow, but no anery, no caramels and then this guy who still hasn't crawled out of his eggs.

I think I'll take some more close ups in a week or so after they shed and hopefully we can figure out exactly what they are.

 

[hypnoctopus]

I don't know what he is, but he's a very pretty guy!

 

[antsterr]

Oh yes, I'm totatally a fan of orange snakes. I'd really like to see his colour find it's way into a bloodred. The idea of an almost pure orange snake with almost no pattern has been a dream of mine since I first got him.

 

[jessicashallperish]

i see normals, snows, amel, and the last one looks hypo?

 

[snakepunk]

I think I see caramels in that clutch. The yellows can take a while to develop.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

You are 100% right, let them shed once, then start playing the ID game.

Amels, butters, and hypo look washed out before they shed once. I bet some of those are really going be stunners after a shed.

 

[antsterr]

So after closer inspection I can see that there are some Caramels.
Normal and Caramel for contrast

Also, to my great surprise that last one in the egg turned out to be a hypo. You'll notice two of them have almost the same body colour but one has red eyes and one has dark eyes. Strange to find him in the mix. Here he is beside what I believe are an amel and a butter or possibly some kind of high yellow snow.

Here is one of the light coloured one up close, there are 3 more just like her. Any guesses at this point?

Finally a pile of all 5 morphs, you can see the strong het bloodred look to some of their bellies.

 

[antsterr]

One more shot of the three light coloured ones together.

 

[Susan]

The light one is a butter, no doubt about it. Looking at the odd-colored father, the color is very similar to what I see in many amel hybrids of various species...that bright lemon yellow and pale orange.

 

[Weda737]

Probably look even better in a few months, from my understanding, it takes a while for the yellow pigment to show in baby corns.

 

[5 Star Serpents]

Probably look even better in a few months, from my understanding, it takes a while for the yellow pigment to show in baby corns.

Even a few sheds makes a world of difference, my baby butters are screamin yellow after their first shed...but they are being selectively bred so that may be why they are bright so early on...

 

[Weda737]

Even a few sheds makes a world of difference, my baby butters are screamin yellow after their first shed...but they are being selectively bred so that may be why they are bright so early on...

Oh that is fantastic, I have a butter on my want list ^.^

 

[Crazy Colubrids]

The light one is a butter, no doubt about it. Looking at the odd-colored father, the color is very similar to what I see in many amel hybrids of various species...that bright lemon yellow and pale orange.

Ya like Creamsicle.

 

[Pugsley]

Oh that is fantastic, I have a butter on my want list ^.^

I think Christen has some butter, nice ones and at a great price. You might want to check with her. I'm considering it, big time.

 

[exar15xe]

Here is my "Butter her name" Creamsicle het motley. I love the top pic. Im a sucker for creamsicles. My Butter has the best deposition.

 

[antsterr]

Below are a few more pictures of Orange Julius. I'll let the jury decided what they think. Here are the facts about him:
Sold as a pure butter from serpenco stock by a reputable member The Alberta Reptile and Amphibian Society (TARAS)
Has proven to be homo butter het hypo

Julius as a one year old looking more bright yellow then than he does now

A look at his belly, more defined checkers than most creams but a little suspicious with that line down the middle

Full grown, as he looks today

Comparison with another "normal" butter

So what do you think? I know it's not uncommon for breeder to lie or mistakenly mislabel snakes. I also know that many creams these days are not just amel crosses but can have many other corn genes mixed in as well. I still believe he's a true guttatus. However, I'm interested in opinions, does anything other than colour indicate hybridizing going on?