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What is he?

bitsy said:
I wouldn't use the term "Golddust" - that is still not (and now never will be) firmly established as a hybrid-derived morph. You know for sure that yours is. I'd use the parents' morphs as per Doug's original suggestion.
Click to expand...
And just to add a thought to the above, Golddusts were potentially derived from a very specific non-Corn - the White Oak Phase Grey Rat. Unless it's known that this was the ancestry in this case, then the term Golddust would be inaccurate and misleading for this particular snake. We can't just start using the term "Golddust" indiscriminately for "Corn-based hybrids with a Rat Snake element which look like Golddusts". Especially when some people still aren't convinced that Golddusts are hybrids.That way lies madness!

Handsome beastie though and a nice find :)
 
Thanks guys!

Mr. Doug, here are some more pictures of Nugget's tail. I hope they are useful!

nuggettail.jpg


nuggettail3.jpg


nuggettail2.jpg


I hope these are if useable quality, it is kind of hard taking pics of a moving snake! :laugh:

bitsy: From what I understand the Gold Dust is Corn x Grey Rat Snake & the Cinnamon (his dam) is Corn x Great Plains Rat Snake. Is that correct? If so, *technically* since he is a by an Albino Corn & out of a Cinnamon, he cannot be a Gold Dust? I am I understanding that correctly? And if that is the case, what is he? I know all hybrids have names (Creamsicle, Jungle Corn, etc.) Would he be a Golden Creamsicle, since Creams are Corn x GPRS? I am confused!! :eek:

Thanks again for everything guys!
 
D.J. said:
Thanks guys!

Mr. Doug, here are some more pictures of Nugget's tail. I hope they are useful!

nuggettail.jpg


nuggettail3.jpg


nuggettail2.jpg


I hope these are if useable quality, it is kind of hard taking pics of a moving snake! :laugh:

bitsy: From what I understand the Gold Dust is Corn x Grey Rat Snake & the Cinnamon (his dam) is Corn x Great Plains Rat Snake. Is that correct? If so, *technically* since he is a by an Albino Corn & out of a Cinnamon, he cannot be a Gold Dust? I am I understanding that correctly? And if that is the case, what is he? I know all hybrids have names (Creamsicle, Jungle Corn, etc.) Would he be a Golden Creamsicle, since Creams are Corn x GPRS? I am confused!! :eek:

Thanks again for everything guys!
Click to expand...

Yeah, not the greatest pics still, but it still looks female to me there too. :)

That's right, if it's amel and not the odd form of hypo (ultra/ultramel), it cannot be a homozygous (visual) golddust. It's not that a gray rat times corn produces Ultra/ultramel, but the gene did somehow originate from the gray rat x frosted snow (hybrid) breeding...however it may have happened.


~Doug
 
Thanks Mr. Doug, you have been a blessing! So due to lineage she is not a Gold Dust. Would I be out of place if I called her a "lemonsicle?" lol.

And sorry for the lame Qs guys, hopefully I'll get over this greenhorn stage eventually! :laugh:
 
D.J. said:
Thanks Mr. Doug, you have been a blessing! So due to lineage she is not a Gold Dust. Would I be out of place if I called her a "lemonsicle?" lol.

And sorry for the lame Qs guys, hopefully I'll get over this greenhorn stage eventually! :laugh:
Click to expand...

I think I am more confused now than ever..LOL!

Yours is definitely not an amel for sure, but it "could" be a caramel ultramel (goldust), but now I forgot what the parents were that produced it.. :)
 
D.J. said:
bitsy: From what I understand the Gold Dust is Corn x Grey Rat Snake
Click to expand...
Not quite - hence the problem.

*IF* you accept that Golddusts are hybrids (and many people don't), then the underlying gene - Ultra - was derived from the very specific White Oak Phase Grey Rat Snake. Not just any Grey Rat Snake.

Cinnamon (his dam) is Corn x Great Plains Rat Snake. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, but there has never been any suggestion that Golddusts originated from this type of Rat Snake.

If so, *technically* since he is a by an Albino Corn & out of a Cinnamon, he cannot be a Gold Dust? I am I understanding that correctly?
Click to expand...
Yes. If those are all the genetics in play, then that's right - he cannot be Golddust.

Of course, that doesn't preclude the Ultra coming in from the Amel side without you knowing about it! But unless you definitely know that this is the case, then I wouldn't use the term Golddust. And in any case, to many people this morph name still implies a potentially pure Corn, where you know for sure that yours is a hybrid.

And if that is the case, what is he? I know all hybrids have names (Creamsicle, Jungle Corn, etc.) Would he be a Golden Creamsicle, since Creams are Corn x GPRS?
Click to expand...
There are so many second and third generation hybrid combinations around now, that no, not every hybrid mix has a name. It's like your average "Heinz 57" pet dog - few of those are anything identifiable these days.

I think Doug's original suggestion of calling it an "Amel x Cinnamon" is the nearest you'll get.
 
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Holly Moly!!!! Now I am confused. The very first pic looks like a caramel motley...but since we are aware of the hybrid background....

I like the "Amel x Cinnamon" because of the hybrid origins making up another name might get someone else confused, if the snake was bred and or sold or passed on to someone. With the "amel x cinnamon" at least we know what lineage it has for sure.
 
bitsy said:
Not quite - hence the problem.

*IF* you accept that Golddusts are hybrids (and many people don't), then the underlying gene -Ultra - was derived from the very specific White Oak Phase Grey Rat Snake. Not just any Grey Rat Snake.
Click to expand...

AFAIK: This hasn't been proven yet.
 
Tom Tuttle said:
AFAIK: This hasn't been proven yet.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, hence a number of people still believing that Golddusts are a pure Corn morph and why we should avoid using the term Golddust for this specific snake. I doubt it will be proved/disproved until DNA testing becomes more refined and affordable. As I said:
*IF* you accept that Golddusts are hybrids (and many people don't)
Click to expand...

My main point was that there's never been a suggestion of anything other than specifically a White Oak Phase Grey Rat being potentially involved (and even trial breeding of those failed to produce Ultra). There's no basis at all for thinking that a plain Grey Rat Snake (the ancestry of the OP's snake) was involved at any point - another reason for not referring to this particular snake as a Golddust.
 
It would certainly lay a lot of ghosts/rumours/misinformation in the Corn community!
 
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