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what would happen if you bred.......

I

InSaNe_penguin

[below] jimbo up close
a snow and a normal together?

i just got a VERY buetiful snow and was wondering how the babies would look
any 1 got any picks of babies that have a snow and a normal 4 parents?

(note: im a total newb in this section)
 
Hiya. They would all look like Normals and be het for Anery and Amel.

If you kept two of those babies and bred them when they reached adulthood, then you'd get a mix of Normals, Amels, Anerys & Snows with various hets.
 
Kel said:
Hiya. They would all look like Normals and be het for Anery and Amel.

If you kept two of those babies and bred them when they reached adulthood, then you'd get a mix of Normals, Amels, Anerys & Snows with various hets.
Click to expand...

Couldn't the normal be het for amel, anery or snow though? If it is het for one of those the whole clutch wouldn't be normals would they?
 
Correct. You don't know if the normal is carrying any hidden genes. It's possible that it could be het for (carrying one gene for) amel or anery or both. (Snow being a snake that has both amel genes and both anery genes.)

That being said, you may expect one of these four outcomes:

Case 1 - Normal isn't het for anything:

Progeny will all be normals, but will be carrying an amel and anery gene since the snow can't throw anything but those genes.

Case 2 - Normal is het for amel only:

Progeny should be half amel het anery and half normals het amel and anery (aka het snow). (Remember it is possible to get a clutch of all or mostly amels or all or mostly normals, Murphy's law loves to play with you on that one.)

Case 3 - Normal is het for anery only:

Progeny should be half anerys het amel and half normals het snow.

Case 4 - Woo hoo! Your normal is het snow:

You'd expect an even mix of Normals (het snow), Amels (het anery), Anerys (het amel), and Snows. Good times.


There's always the offchance that both snakes are het for other traits as well, most common being hypo and motley, besides amel and anery. You just never know anymore, since morphs are so diverse. Makes corn breeding a bit unpredicatable and fun.

:santa:
 
I am surprised Hurley didn't mention it...but if you want an excellent resource for cornsnake genetics...click the link in her signature for Serp's Cornsnake Morph Guide...it explains genetics in a fairly easy to understand way...and includes a lot of information about the various morphs.

Also you can get the MPMorpher...which has a good amount of the various morphs from http://www.marcelpoots.com/ click the programming link and go to MP Genetics...

Or you can use the Cornsnake Progeny Predictor... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spencer62/cornprog.html
I have never used it (can't seem to get it to work) but this one comes highly recommended.

These tools will help show you what various combinations of traits, both Homozygous and Heterozygous have the possibility to create...and in what percentage (of course nature doesn't work in percentages as we all know).
 
I hate it when people say "het snow." unless someone who understands genetics is looking at that, and understands that "het snow" actually means "het anery and amel"...Most people are clueless...
 
blckkat said:
I hate it when people say "het snow." unless someone who understands genetics is looking at that, and understands that "het snow" actually means "het anery and amel"...Most people are clueless...
Click to expand...

Well clueless goes a long way...LOL.

Some people work better when you speak in combinations...but most don't take the time to truly understand the genetics.

I saw someone with SNOW het BUBBLEGUM in their signature today...no offense...but that would be the same as AMEL het SUNGLOW.
If that isn't confusion...I don't know what is.
 
Alias47 said:
I saw someone with SNOW het BUBBLEGUM in their signature today...no offense...but that would be the same as AMEL het SUNGLOW.
If that isn't confusion...I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

and just to clarify that statment in case individuals are looking at that and not understanding...BUBBLEGUM is a line bred snow...SUNGLOW is a line bred amel...not possible to be "het"
 
I hate it when people say "het snow."
Click to expand...

Honestly? The term drives me up the wall. The reason it was worked into the explanation is that so many people DO use it, at least this is a way to show them what it really means.

You have to face the facts, though, the term is everywhere, so everyone needs to know what is meant by it, regardless of whether or not it is technically correct. Plus, if I had typed het anery and het amel all over the place without defining it, I would have lost Insane Penguin and 2/3rd's of the people reading the thread in a heartbeat, thinking "I'll never understand this friggin' genetic stuff."

This way, both terms are there, and notice I never call an anery or an amel "het snow"...I just can't bring myself to do it. They can't be het snow when they are homo for half of the snow combo, not het.
 
Hurley said:
so many people DO use it
Click to expand...
It is so common place that I can't help it sometimes...call it conditioned response. Although it does bug me as well.
Hurley said:
notice I never call an anery or an amel "het snow"...I just can't bring myself to do it. They can't be het snow when they are homo for half of the snow combo, not het.
Click to expand...
This is the one that drives me absolutely BONKERS.
Example: Lavender Het Opal*....just to get that "special" name in there...I mean who wants a plain old Lavender Stripe het AMEL anyway? (well I do...but I may be strange =) )

If more people wrote it out...the more some of the people who are having a hard time understanding WILL understand.


*To clarify, Opal is a combination of the homozygous traits Lavender and Amelanistic.
 
What I do is say I have...

h. Amel Anery Caramel (can produce amels, aneries, carmals, snows and butters)

instead of saying het snow and butter
 
Heh, you hit another of my pet peeves, lol.

People that say h or dh or th this and that. Nothing really wrong with it, just bothers me. ;)

And yes, I advertise with the genes listed, not combos...but I put the combos in the description. Then I have people email me telling me I don't know what I'm doing, which is it? Normal het amel and anery or Normal het snow? You can't win any way. If you don't put the combos, the masses that don't know what genes are in each combo will never know what the snake can produce. There's not a winning solution in any direction that I can see, you just do the best you can.
 
i get tired of typing HET out (h) and POSSIBLE HET (ph) so i've shortened it for my own use. i understand where you're coming from though.
 
I agree...you cannot please everyone...
And you DO have to use combos to advertise...or the majority of people will skip over it...(Heck what's the big deal with a Lavender Stripe het Amel...but you throw opal in and you got an extra hundred bucks from Joe Blow)
People are accustomed to these generalizations (and do not understand enough about the relationship of the genetics to change)

And from everything I have seen lately...not only are collectors having a hard time understanding genetics, but it seems there are a lot of people out there breeding cornsnakes that really have no idea either...which is perpetuating the misinformation.
Viscious circle...all I can do is stay as educated as I can through the best and most reliable sources and try to work out what those people that don't understand truly mean.
 
Bad boy Joe!

I guess I have been a very bad boy in many peoples eyes. I almost always use the combination of terms which the Corns are het for or what the Homo snake and het gene they are carrying can make together.

If somebody doesn’t know what a Lavender Het Snow is, they are not going to know what a Lavender het Anery and Amel is either. We have played the name game, so the genes a snake is homo for will register immediately, and make things short and simple. It is kind of like speed reading. When I see Snow, my brain registers Anery/Amel instantly.

A Striped Lav het Amel, is certainly more correct, I guess scientifically, but why would anybody use a Striped Lav het amel to make Amels? There are much easier and/or certainly cheaper ways to do that. I certainly can see every bodies point that a Lavender can not be het for lavender and amel (Opal), but for breeding purposes, both of the genes necessary are present to make Opals. After all, we are talking about breeding the snake, or at least letting people who may buy the snake, know what they can produce from the Lavender het Amel. They can produce Opals, when combined with the right mate

If we were not thinking about breeding the Lavender het Opal, then it would just be a LAVENDER. It could be het for Striped Amel, Caramel, and Anery and it just wouldn’t matter. OH, I meant het for Striped Glacier Butter, didn’t I. LOL

I have Normals het for Lava, Amel, Caramel, and Motley, but I value them because they are het Lava Butter Motleys. I have Anerys het Striped and Lava, but I value them because they are Het Striped Ice. How about this one, Hets for Amel, Lava, Anery, and Motley. They are het SMICE or Snow Motley Ice. I have some Amels from the same clutch labeled het MICE, which I chuckle at every time I see it. I also think they are cool, because I am going to make Motley Ice out of them. I realize what the genes involved are, but my breeding goal is what Homo Combos I can produce.

I think the reason I do it, is because you don’t have to start trying to figure out all of the combinations that are possible on your fingers, it is already there in black and white. Is it right or wrong? I think from a breeding stand point, it is OK. We created these wonderful catchy names for Home Corns for a reason. To me if the Corns carry the genes to make one of them either Homo and/or Het, I am going use the common name. It is short, simple and makes our hobby a lot more fun. I think it would be kind of dry if we still called a Corn, Homo Amel and het Anery. I think you can have it both ways. One way is a scientific approach and great for discussions, and the other is Corn Jargon, and makes our hobby much more fun.

By the way a Homo Amel and het Anery is an Amel het Snow. Did you have to think about it even for a second the first time? I bet you didn’t when you saw Amel het Snow. It is instant.
 
By the way a Homo Amel and het Anery is an Amel het Snow. Did you have to think about it even for a second the first time? I bet you didn’t when you saw Amel het Snow. It is instant.
Click to expand...

Did I stop for an instant on that one? Yes.

Would I have with Amel het Anery? No.

Amel het snow?...just long enough to twitch.

LOL, Merry Christmas, Joe. :santa:
 
I agree, Joe...

It is WARRANTED to advertise by combination name...or people will NOT understand what it is...
Just because they refuse to educate themselves.

The information is out there...they just need to read it.
I know less than a lot of people (many posted in this thread included) but I realize more and more that I know more than the majority...and I have only been collecting snakes again for about 6 months. With no prior education regarding genetics. Everything I have learned I read in books or in forums such as this one!
 
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