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When breeding: Mice VS Rats + lab blocks?

ShenziSixaxis

ShenziSixaxis

Sticking To The Ceiling
So I decided I'd breed my own feeder mice because it was cheaper and gave me something that would need daily attention. Well, a few days ago I learned that Pet Supermarket (where I got my corn and first few meals) that they buy live mice. They probably do with rats, too. So pretty much, my hobby could also net me plenty of extra cash.

With mice, they sell adults for about $1.69, and pay around 75 cents if you sell to them. They sell their adult feeder rats for 4-6 bucks, so if they pay half for those as well, there's even more money for me (plus I'm interested in seeing how my corn (and future snakes) does on rats vs mice).

Now, I got lots and lots of information about breeding mice, but what about rats? Is it the same thing, just with bigger rodents?



Also, a lot of people said that lab blocks were good to feed them. I found lots of reviews on various lob blocks from various companies, but where the heck can I buy some!? I really prefer doing auto-mated purchases online, but if someone can give me a website or even a company address that sells those 25lb+ bags of lab blocks, that would work too.
 
I say buy lab blocks on bulk online, dunno where exactly, but it'd probably be cheaper. lab blocks are nutritionally complete for rats/mice, but I'd give them other things like dog food too. Maybe dried fruits from time to time. Rat breeding is similar to mice breeding, only with larger containers and a different gestation/growing period. (I assume.)

Also, rats have more fat in them than mice, so mice are recommended as a staple for corn snakes. Nothing wrong with a small one from time to time, though. I love varying the diet of my pets.
 
I found a good webpage about breeding rats that says the gestation for them is 21-28 days, so not too different. Litters are bigger though.
 
Mazuri is supposed to be the best for feeder rodents, I get it when I can but nearest to me is like an hour away, so I use cheerios + unsweetened bran flakes, and granola for treats.
I googled 'Mazuri' and found a site selling 2lb bags, 25 and 50lb http://shop.mazuri.com/mazurirodentpellets.aspx
and I know Bean Farm has 50lb. But having a large enough order shipped to make it worth it online is still gonna be high.
Maybe if you talk to the manager of a pet store in your area you can convince them to carry it if you would be needing decent quantity.
 
I'm going to get another colony of fancy mice going soon, I have just rats now for my boa. But not all my corns will eat rats, so I've been ordering frozen.
Rats are lots funner than mice :) Mice are cute but they don't really like handled much.
 
$63.16 for shipping? WTF. I'm gonna talk to William at Pet Supermarket on Monday.. :laugh:
Although, I found the 50lb bag on Bean Farm, and that by itself is 39 USD, and shipping is just barely over 25 USD, so I'll probably go with that. I may wait to get such a huge amount until I have a more established colony though. XD

I agree that rats are better for handling than mice, but I have a little corn who's only on fuzzies so far, and the only reason I'll be breeding rats is for an occasional rat 'treat' and to make money (since it's starting to get tight because of my damn medical bills).
 
You can get Mazuri at any feed mill that sells Purina feeds. They will probably have to order it, but then can get it for you. A 50# bag usually runs around $25. You can also use dog food. Just make sure it has low protein and no red dye. It will usually have corn listed as the first ingredient also. It is the crappy dog food that no one should be feeding dogs.
 
How do your parents feel about having rodents in the house? Mice are SMELLY. I had a small colony (about 6 animals) and they were gross. My entire house smelled of rodent, even with frequent cleaning. Rats aren't as bad, but still stink. Also, rats are very intelligent critters (I miss mine terribly, I had them as pets for years) and will need a lot of stimulation, whether from interaction with you or giving them lots of toys and such.

As for the high shipping, welcome to the true cost of doing things. Even if your pet store decides that they can order the lab block for you, that cost is going to be passed onto you, you'd be much better off finding a place locally that already carries it. They are likely to have it significantly cheaper, as they would order large quantities. Check with a farm supply store.

Now, to the 'money making' aspect of your idea...not likely to happen. Let's say you have a few mouse colonies and a few rat colonies. You'll be spending at least $50 on food each month and probably $30 or so on bedding. If you're only selling the shop adult mice and rats (which sounds like the case), you'll be spending far more to feed the rodents into adulthood than you'll be getting back by selling them for $0.75 and $2-3. The only way to make some money with rodents is to do it on a pretty large scale (while also using the rodents as a cheap food source for a 'large' number of snakes) and have a cheap (and local) source for food...just stuff to think about before you think you're going to be making a lot with this venture...it is a lot like breeding snakes, you'll be lucky to break even.

Another thing to think about...will you be feeding live (obviously not recommended, and I'm not familiar enough with you yet to recall how you're feeding your snake) or culling the proper size animals and freezing them? If that is the case, you'll need to worry about your method of euthanasia. Will you use cervical dislocation for all of them or will you build a CO2 chamber (another expense to figure in)?

Seeing as you only have one snake, it really isn't economical for you to be breeding your own food. You'd be better off just buying your meals locally until your snake is on adult mice, then order in bulk online from a place like RodentPro.

So anyways, I'm not saying this to discourage you, just to give you things to think about. Sit down with your parents and determine how many rodent colonies they'll allow in the house, figure out (realistically, not just a rough estimate, which is likely to be low) how much food/bedding/water bottles/food dishes/wheels/toys/etc. are going to cost (keep in mind that rats are known to chew everything, so toys and such need replaced frequently) each month, determine approximately how many rodents you'll be producing each month and what the demand is from the store (I know my local store can only take so many at a time and are frequently overstocked on mice...if that happens to you, what will you do with all the extra mice and how will you compensate for not bringing in that money), and also figure in your start-up costs, you'll need cages for the rats, mice will do just fine in tanks. Think about the time you'll be spending to feed and clean as well, that is also a 'cost'...will it cut into your school work? Just remember to be realistic about your costs and potential 'profit' and don't get in over your head, especially as you're saying that money is already tight. Good luck. :)
 
Wow Hallie, That was great!!! Really puts this whole breeding feeders thing in perspective. I'm not breeding as I only have two snakes and I don't want to deal with the hassle. Rats dont eat as much when they live in the freezer. :p
 
I suggest that you try to find some ASF (African Soft-Furred) rats in your area. They may be more expensive to start off with but they're definitely worth it. They have very little smell and have WAY more babies than mice. Also, their babies are the same size as mouse babies, but they get about twice the size of a mouse when they're full-grown adults so there's more of a range of sizes available while they're growing.
 
:laugh: Thank you, Hallie.

My parents didn't mind me having so many pet rodents, and they like the idea of me breeding them if someone will buy what I don't need. I planned on getting a few toys for the mice, and the rats I'm not totally sure about. If I can get some that are decently friendly, I probably won't mind buying them some toys and handling them.

:laugh: Yeah, I know. Sucks.

I've done a lot of math, and I've figured that once I get what's needed (which I get discounts online for at PetCo.com), and after a while, if I have good liters, I'll be making money. Not a whole lot, but some.

I've decided if I ever feed like, it'll either be stunned or small enough to be harmless to my corn. Depending on the size/age of the mice, they'll most likely be hand killed by myself (will need to figure out what I'm best at, though) since I'm not squeamish. I may or may not consider a CO2 chamber, because I my corn is only taking fuzzies right now, and I have a bag of about 35 left over that will last me a while. Until I need to freeze a lot for a growing collection of snakes, a CO2 chamber probably won't happen very soon.

I actually looked around, and I found that the Big Cheese, between shipping and the actual price for the mouse, was cheapest for me. However, I still found it too expensive when I could be breeding my own. And I'm also trying to find a hobby. I've been doing school online, and for some reason, I've been getting very bored and twitchy. The one corn I have has helped with that, but I still feel screwed up. I used to be very laid back and content, even with just a car ride. Now I'm bouncing all over the place.
Oh, and I do plan on expanding my collection. I plan on getting at least two more corns (a lovely anery or charcoal and a snow), but I also plan on getting some interesting milk snakes, and definitely at least one rosy boa.

:laugh: I get what you're saying. Money isn't super tight (but it does make me feel guilty whenever I have to say "Y'know you haven't paid me my allowance in over a month?" :awcrap: ), but it would be nice to get my own money. I've also decided that I'll start out with 1 male and 2-3 females, depending on what happens when I buy them. My parents don't mind if I do this if I keep the rodents in my room. And only once I've saved money up and can afford to expand my colony and buy some professional breeder tubs do I plan on really 'mass producing' mice and adding 5 rats at the most.
The good thing about this pet store is that they also have frozen feeders that they sell for about the same cost as live.

Jadie.Glitch said:
I suggest that you try to find some ASF (African Soft-Furred) rats in your area. They may be more expensive to start off with but they're definitely worth it. They have very little smell and have WAY more babies than mice. Also, their babies are the same size as mouse babies, but they get about twice the size of a mouse when they're full-grown adults so there's more of a range of sizes available while they're growing.
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can do that. I was planning on asking about those soon. I would think Petsmart has those, but according to their website they only have dumbos, fancies, and hairless. Guess I'll need to really look around.
 
Definitely not much money in rats/mice unless you are breeding and selling hundreds/thousands of them. You're more likely to break even, if at all. You also might make even more money by selling them privately to individual snake owners, such as via Craigslist or other free methods. Maybe a local reptile club near you?

As far as killing, I usually do cervical dislocation with a pen, it's pretty easy to get the hang of it but it is very hands-on and I know some people are too squeamish. Also with pinkies and other tiny mice it doesn't work, with them I used to seriously just slam them onto a hard floor as hard as I could and they would die instantly. Again, a very hands-on method that a lot of people can't stomach, but I promise you that death is INSTANT if you do it right.

With the pen method, you get the mouse on a flat surface and hold the base of the tail in one hand. With the other end you lay a pen down across the neck DIRECTLY at the back of the head (perpendicular from the spine) and with one swift motion you press down hard with the pen while the other hand jerks the tail up into the air and also towards the head a bit. You hear a snap and if you've done it right, mouse will be dead instantly, bit it WILL jerk it's legs and pee and do all sorts of things that might disturb someone who is not used to it.

However, it's free and a lot less hassle than a CO2 chamber.
 
I have no idea. And I have thought of putting an ad on Craig's List. I'm pretty sure they don't want that kind of stuff on it though.

Like I said, I'm not squeamish. :D


Thanks for the videos. That looks pretty easy, and if I get a 1 yr old milk snake that's been in the pet store for a while, I'll need to convert it from live to f/t mice or p/k; so I'll get plenty of practice. And the postmortem twitching is actually rather interesting to me.
 
The postmortem twitching can be very helpful in getting a snake to transition from Live to P/K to F/T, definitely. I also agree it is very fascinating!

People on my local Craigslist sell rodents, but they usually don't call them feeders in the ad, it's more of an unspoken thing. Unless the ad says NOT FEEDERS then it's usually a good chance they are feeders for sale.
 
I agree. I supposed taking an ice pick and brianing the mouse right after killing it would help too.

I may need a tutorial on that, too. :D
 
I'd imagine you could just take the flat of a large knife against their head and give it a good whack like you are cracking a clove of garlic?

Braining is going to be messy, might as well make it easier.
 
Anything solid and heavy should work, I never actually used an ice pick. I don't own one!

Well if you are going to go the cervical dislocation and braining route, I would suggest investing in some f/t mice to practice on.
 
My mom has four since she's always drinking iced tea with LOTS of ice.

With most of my corn's meals, I've slit and brained the mice. I'm not sure I'll be practicing the cervical dislocation on them though. My corn isn't very interested in thawed mice that I've touched with my hands.
 
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