sallydog77
RayRay the Party Midget
That one is really gorgeous. His color almost reminds me of gunmetal.
-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Wild Caught NE Alabama Corns !!
- Thread starter Walter Smith
- Start date
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
> Hold up man, don't get your panties in a bunch.
Dood, I took it as a jest at me.No bunched panties. Consider my typing as "going commando" they are so un-bunched.
OK, WELL JUST STAY IN THE "COMMANDO" STATICE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GIVE YOU A WEGGIE WHILE YOUR PANTIES ARE BUNCHED.....LOL
The BIG problem is that we already HAVE anerythristic Kisatchie cornsnakes - and they aren't the results of hybridization. What happens when we get an albino and can (one day, I hope) make PURE "snow" Kisatchie cornsnakes? Want to use that name NOW for a hybrid and steal it from future gens? That's not right on any level.
I've sold those pure anerythristic Kisatchie cornsnakes. If you use the same name for the hybrids, can't you see why that's a problem EVEN though you try to represented them correctly? Creamsicles weren't called "albino corns" for the same reason you shouldn't use the term "albino" Kisatchie for just another mutt cross.
Why not make up a new name like it warrants? That's separate the pure anerythristic Kisatchie - like myself, Don, Rob, etc. have - from the hybrids. People know rootbeer, pearl, creamsicle, etc. means hybrid. Kisatchie doesn't, so why potentially sully the name like that? Just give it a NEW name - like the other hybridizers who wanted to REDUCE confusion have in the past.
AFTER READING YOUR ENTIRE REPLY, YOU ARE RIGHT, IT DOES MAKE MORE SENSE, ESPECIALLY WHAT I HAVE HI-LIGHTED HERE.
I ACTUALLY FORGOT ABOUT THE TRUE ANERY KISATCHIES AND I SURELY DON'T WANT TO TAINT THAT NAME USING IT TO A CROSS.
YEAH, COMING UP WITH A TOTALLY SEPERATE NAME TO BE DISCRIPT OF HOW THEY LOOK, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY TO REPRESENT THEY ARE A CROSS IS THE WAY TO GO TO ELIMINATE CONFUSION DOWN THE LINE.
IF IN ANY OF MY POSTINGS WITH YOU SEEMED LIKE I HAD ANY KIND OF ILLNESS TOWARDS YOU OR YOUR REPLIES, I APPOLIGIZE. I SURLEY DIDN'T MEAN IT THAT WAY.
WALTER,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!
KJUN
Well-known member
No worries mate. Even if I would have taken something incorrectly, I would have gotten over it and forgotten it by now. I stopped thinking that anything on the internet was personal a long time ago. "Ain't nuttin' but a thang...." PLUS, when one has such a curt-sounding style of conversing as I do, I can't allow myself to easily get upset at anyone else since my words are often taken in a different spirit than I mean them.
Anyway, glad to hear it on the naming. I think the "Jungle Corn" example is a good one. We all know it means "Cal-King x Cornsnake hybrid." Now, you have albino jungles, striped jungles, hypo jungles, etc. "Jungle" can't easily be confused with ANYTHING. [Speaking of which, why does every emoryi x cornsnake hybrid get a different name, while all cal-king x cornsnake hybrid gets the same name? I think the creamsicle/cinnamon/rootbeer thing is more confusing to beginners - not those of us deep into the hobby - than the Jungle thing. That's just me, though]
But, I digress. Good luck thinking of a name. Maybe you and Jim, the guy that made the Kisatchie/lavender cross, and whoever else doing it???, can all talk it over, think about what these things look like, and come up with a distinctive name that people will accept? Good luck.......you'll need it, eh? LOL.
KJ
Anyway, glad to hear it on the naming. I think the "Jungle Corn" example is a good one. We all know it means "Cal-King x Cornsnake hybrid." Now, you have albino jungles, striped jungles, hypo jungles, etc. "Jungle" can't easily be confused with ANYTHING. [Speaking of which, why does every emoryi x cornsnake hybrid get a different name, while all cal-king x cornsnake hybrid gets the same name? I think the creamsicle/cinnamon/rootbeer thing is more confusing to beginners - not those of us deep into the hobby - than the Jungle thing. That's just me, though]
But, I digress. Good luck thinking of a name. Maybe you and Jim, the guy that made the Kisatchie/lavender cross, and whoever else doing it???, can all talk it over, think about what these things look like, and come up with a distinctive name that people will accept? Good luck.......you'll need it, eh? LOL.
KJ
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Yeah, I hear ya.
I think the problem with the Creamsicle, Cinnamon, Rootbeer thing is that the Amelinistic version of the Emory X Corn was the first to hit the market.
If the Normal/Wild type version would have been first then I believe the recessive traits would have followed suit........Amel Rootbeer, Anery Rootbeer, Hypo Rootbeer............etc.
I don't mind the coined Creamsicle & Cinnamon name, but I can't stand the term Rootbeer for the Normal/Wild version. I lable mine as a EmoryCorn which I believe is pretty discript of it being a cross. I will use the Creamsicle and Cinnamon, but if I were to produce an Anery, Lavender or Caramel version, I will just follow suit such as Anery EmoryCorn, Lavender EmoryCorn & Caramel EmoryCorn...........Kinda like what you mention about the Jungle and it's counterparts.
Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Jim who???:shrugs:
I wasn't aware of a Lavender Corn X Kisatchie.
Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!
KJUN
Well-known member
Very good point. I believe Shannon Brown coined "rootbeer" about 8 or 10 years ago, right? Whoever had it must have produced the only ones that were ever rootbeer colored.....lol.
Actually, that makes a LOT of sense. Not much confusion possible from that, and I NOW understand where you were trying to go with the "KisatchieCorn" idea. Yeah, that's make sense if it wouldn't bee confusing since they already go by that name to most hobbyists. That puts most of what you said about the naming of it in a clearer light. "Duh!" on both of us, eh?
If I did hybrids, I'd probably follow your lead with the "EmoryCorn." It's more accurate than "rootbeer." Yeah, come up with something snazzy for yourKisacornsnahybs, and you'll be in the zone.
Sargent. On the lavender hybrids, I saw a breeding image/post on another forum. Someone sent me a link a month or two ago. The breeder is from Texas. Boerne, maybe? Wish I could remember more. Sorry. I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.
ILoveGreen
Down to 2 Corn Snakes!
I also enjoyed reading your debate. Thanks for helping me learn! The Normals are just beautiful.
One question...I also have many frogs so I belong to a couple frog forums. Well if someone was to say they caught a frog or toad from "the wild" and put it into a small cage/aquaruim would be told that it was sooo wrong to stress the frog and that the frog will be better of for future generations left in the wild...also there are laws against it in most states. And now I come to this site(which I love) and see that catching Corn Snakes from the wild seems to be just fine. I was wondering if the Corns get stressed moving from the big open wild to a small tub or whatever? I'm not getting mad at anyone just wondering why there is such a differnce. Maybe you guys should say that not everyone should go out looking to catch a wild Corn......and that you are doing it to breed? Thanks
One question...I also have many frogs so I belong to a couple frog forums. Well if someone was to say they caught a frog or toad from "the wild" and put it into a small cage/aquaruim would be told that it was sooo wrong to stress the frog and that the frog will be better of for future generations left in the wild...also there are laws against it in most states. And now I come to this site(which I love) and see that catching Corn Snakes from the wild seems to be just fine. I was wondering if the Corns get stressed moving from the big open wild to a small tub or whatever? I'm not getting mad at anyone just wondering why there is such a differnce. Maybe you guys should say that not everyone should go out looking to catch a wild Corn......and that you are doing it to breed? Thanks
KJUN
Well-known member
That's another topic, but the question you bring up is an ethical, legal, and biological one. Ethically, is it correct to remove an animal from the wild and put it into captivity? I can't answer that for YOU, but I will say that I personally believe it is OK as long as proper care is given, no laws are violated, the animal adjusts to captivity, and the collection doesn't harm the population.
Legally? Well, that depends on the state, species, etc. It is legal to collect cornsnakes in LA with a fishing license, but you can't collect them in georgia without what lots of people think of as a "scientific permit."
Biologically? Well, that depends. Is collecting cornsnakes - and we are talking recreational and not commercial collecting - in AL going to hurt the wild population as whole? Probably not - almost definitely not - and NEVER as much as cars do. Look at greybands in Texas. MAYBE a couple hundred - really less - are captured in a given year. Compare that to the thousands likely ran over by cars. How can anyone say collecting is evil until it is shown that the population MIGHT be harmed by it? All captive snakes, of course, are derived from wild ones. With that said, I do believe a person should NOT collect a snake to save the couple of dollars a CB one would cost, BUT I see NOTHING wrong with a kid keeping his first pet snake if he is lucky enough to collect a speckled kingsnake, cornsnake, or bullsnake (and the other good ones) for himself. That's how MUST of us us found out love of reptiles.
As far as your frog people go, they are correct in some instances and, well, maybe out of touch with the real world in other instances. Catching a native large frog in NM where they are in trouble from bullfrog introductions might be wrong. Those populations are in TROUBLE. Taking a bullfrog from the wild in Louisiana as a pet? How could that be "wrong" when millions of them are harvested for food without decimating the population? One more won't do it! As far as frogs not acclimating to captivity, I'm bnot the BEST one to ask. My experience with wild frogs is limited. i will say bullfrogs don't do well in a SMALL cage, but neither would a bullsnake. (WC Bullsnakes, however, do great in a properly sized cage.) The Bufo sp. and green treefrogs that I've kept in the past all acclimated VERY readily to captive conditions. Heck, they got fat and sassy if I wasn't careful. They didn't show any physiological signs of stress, etc. Those do well around people, but maybe more "high strung" frogs would not do as well.
I think EACH case of "wild collection" should be viewed individually, and EACH of us will have to make our own decision about what is morally correct and what is not morally correct. As long as we obey the laws and take care of animals correctly ONCE captured - and not returned to the wild to potentially spread new diseases (btw, it is ILLEGAL in some states to return animals back to the wild) - I think we should let each other live and let live when it comes to wild collecting.
Legally? Well, that depends on the state, species, etc. It is legal to collect cornsnakes in LA with a fishing license, but you can't collect them in georgia without what lots of people think of as a "scientific permit."
Biologically? Well, that depends. Is collecting cornsnakes - and we are talking recreational and not commercial collecting - in AL going to hurt the wild population as whole? Probably not - almost definitely not - and NEVER as much as cars do. Look at greybands in Texas. MAYBE a couple hundred - really less - are captured in a given year. Compare that to the thousands likely ran over by cars. How can anyone say collecting is evil until it is shown that the population MIGHT be harmed by it? All captive snakes, of course, are derived from wild ones. With that said, I do believe a person should NOT collect a snake to save the couple of dollars a CB one would cost, BUT I see NOTHING wrong with a kid keeping his first pet snake if he is lucky enough to collect a speckled kingsnake, cornsnake, or bullsnake (and the other good ones) for himself. That's how MUST of us us found out love of reptiles.
As far as your frog people go, they are correct in some instances and, well, maybe out of touch with the real world in other instances. Catching a native large frog in NM where they are in trouble from bullfrog introductions might be wrong. Those populations are in TROUBLE. Taking a bullfrog from the wild in Louisiana as a pet? How could that be "wrong" when millions of them are harvested for food without decimating the population? One more won't do it! As far as frogs not acclimating to captivity, I'm bnot the BEST one to ask. My experience with wild frogs is limited. i will say bullfrogs don't do well in a SMALL cage, but neither would a bullsnake. (WC Bullsnakes, however, do great in a properly sized cage.) The Bufo sp. and green treefrogs that I've kept in the past all acclimated VERY readily to captive conditions. Heck, they got fat and sassy if I wasn't careful. They didn't show any physiological signs of stress, etc. Those do well around people, but maybe more "high strung" frogs would not do as well.
I think EACH case of "wild collection" should be viewed individually, and EACH of us will have to make our own decision about what is morally correct and what is not morally correct. As long as we obey the laws and take care of animals correctly ONCE captured - and not returned to the wild to potentially spread new diseases (btw, it is ILLEGAL in some states to return animals back to the wild) - I think we should let each other live and let live when it comes to wild collecting.
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Very good point. I believe Shannon Brown coined "rootbeer" about 8 or 10 years ago, right? Whoever had it must have produced the only ones that were ever rootbeer colored.....lol.
Actually, that makes a LOT of sense. Not much confusion possible from that, and I NOW understand where you were trying to go with the "KisatchieCorn" idea. Yeah, that's make sense if it wouldn't bee confusing since they already go by that name to most hobbyists. That puts most of what you said about the naming of it in a clearer light. "Duh!" on both of us, eh?
If I did hybrids, I'd probably follow your lead with the "EmoryCorn." It's more accurate than "rootbeer." Yeah, come up with something snazzy for yourKisacornsnahybs, and you'll be in the zone.
Sargent. On the lavender hybrids, I saw a breeding image/post on another forum. Someone sent me a link a month or two ago. The breeder is from Texas. Boerne, maybe? Wish I could remember more. Sorry. I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.
Yeah, you are right. I haven't seen one that brings to mind Rootbeer.
Anyway, yes that is where I was trying to go, but as you said, it's being used for the PURE strain, so I won't go there.
Yes, DUH on us........LOL
I'm not sure about Kisacornsnahybs...............LOL
Maybe a CornSatchie???:laugh01:
That's for the info man. I'll see if I can hunt them down.
Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!
Walter Smith
CRAZY BOUT' CORNS !!
Very good point. I believe Shannon Brown coined "rootbeer" about 8 or 10 years ago, right? Whoever had it must have produced the only ones that were ever rootbeer colored.....lol.
Actually, that makes a LOT of sense. Not much confusion possible from that, and I NOW understand where you were trying to go with the "KisatchieCorn" idea. Yeah, that's make sense if it wouldn't bee confusing since they already go by that name to most hobbyists. That puts most of what you said about the naming of it in a clearer light. "Duh!" on both of us, eh?
If I did hybrids, I'd probably follow your lead with the "EmoryCorn." It's more accurate than "rootbeer." Yeah, come up with something snazzy for yourKisacornsnahybs, and you'll be in the zone.
Sargent. On the lavender hybrids, I saw a breeding image/post on another forum. Someone sent me a link a month or two ago. The breeder is from Texas. Boerne, maybe? Wish I could remember more. Sorry. I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.
Oooops, meant to say THANKS for the info.
ILoveGreen
Down to 2 Corn Snakes!
Thank you so much for replying to me so fast. Also thanks for not taking what I was asking as me disagreeing with you. I think it would be great if you were to find a Wild Alabama female and breed the 2. It's like starting over from the root of where are the colorful Morphs came from.
I just don't want a bunch of kids or people running out and searching for Corn Snakes so they can have a free pet because they see how cool the color is here. I just hope if anyone does this(like you said) they have a great home for the Snake and take perfect care of it.
Thanks again for taking the time to write out that post. Your a very knowledgeable person! Glad I met you here!
ILoveGreen
Down to 2 Corn Snakes!
Oh I forgot to add that I do have a wild caught Bullfrog. The reason we desided to take him is that his is bright teal Blue and had scratches all over his head. Yup he's a Blue Morph which is very very rare. My boyfriend had a fishing liecence at the time to it was fine with the DNR. If we didn't take him I'm sure he's be dead by now. He lives a great stress free life now in an 110 gallon aquarium. Some day I haope to get him an even bigger home..though this tank is plenty big for now.