Worried - very slow growth + recurrent belly lump

[spartavet]

I'm going to be calling the vet asap tomorrow morning, but I'm so worried about what's going on with Oswin that I thought I'd post here too.

A little background: I got him from a local exotics pet store in May. (It's not perfect but the best of any places I've been to in MI.) According to the records they had him since January, but he was still TINY. He was fed a f/t pinky every 7 days, and before I knew as much as I know now, I kept him on that schedule. Realizing this wasn't really allowing him to grow much at all, I did more research and increased his feeding to every 5 days. He's had to miss some meals for being in shed/being out of town/etc, but overall I've kept to this schedule, yet he remains hatchling sized and still a pinky leaves a good sized lump. He's grown a little bit, but extremely slowly. That in itself is concerning, but not what has me worried the most...

This is the third time that, 5 days post feed, he still has a large lump where his stomach is (easy to tell since there is an aberrant saddle there). The first time was in September and resolved on it's own in 2 days. I figured it was a fluke. 5 normal feedings. Then it happened again in October. Okaayy, maybe his temps aren't quite high enough, so I increased the tstat setting a little bit. Again resolved on it's own. 3 (fairly small at that) feedings. Now the lump is back. He should have been fed on Friday and the lump is still there. He's been cruising around his tank today and it's pretty obvious, and may even be a little worse (hard to tell since I didn't want to handle him more than necessary.) He eats in a separate container and has never refused food. He's never regurged in my care (did once at the store, but it was 2 days before he shed). Sheds every 1-2 months. Poops are small and look like they aren't really formed (not necessarily loose, they dry quickly into a lump). He's in a 10 gallon tank with aspen with an UTH on 1/3 of the bottom. Tstat is set to 93, but inside of tank reads 85 on the floor on hot side. Cool side is ~70 which is what my house is kept at (I'm in MI, so this is better than the 67 I used to have it at pre-snakes haha).

I added 2 baby dwarf boas last month (from a great breeder this time). They are in a separate room in quarantine, but I'm really worried about still managing to spread something. I'm paranoid about crypto.

Any ideas or even moral support would be greatly appreciated.

 

[spartavet]

Well, I made a vet appointment for 5 pm today, so hopefully we'll get this figured out.

 

[axis1]

Well, I made a vet appointment for 5 pm today, so hopefully we'll get this figured out.

Hi spartavet! How ya been?

Can't really give much in the way of advice on what's ailing Oswin (cool name for a corn, BTW) but getting him to a vet is probably the best thing to do in your little sneaky one's situation. One pinky every 7 days even for a developed hatchling seems a little skimpy, imho! I would venture to say that without any plan at all, refer to the Munson Plan. While there are a couple of different versions floating around, both that I've seen here on this board are better than an arbitrary pinky every 7 days. The actual weight of your snake, regardless of whether it's a hatchling or yearling should really be what determines the size and weight of its meals!

This is the one I went by prior to getting to know my snakes and their individual proclivities related to feeding (I hope this helps!):

 

[spartavet]

Hi Axis, thanks for your reply. I agree that 7 days is pretty scimpy, which is why I upped it to 5 days. He has made progress, just not as much as I'd expect. I read in an old old post that hatchlings kept on a maintenance plan for a long time can have trouble growing even after being on a better diet. I was thinking it was time to start giving him double pinks, but with his lump problem I didn't think that would be a good idea.

I'll let you know what happens at the vet tonight.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Dragonling]

The vet should be able to give you more answers, especially if they are well versed in exotics. It's a bit late, but if you happen to have a fresh sample of poop available, put it in a baggie with a couple drops of water and keep it in the fridge until you leave. He may be able to do a fecal anyway, but it's obviously more stressful for the snake to do a swab.

There are some hatchlings that just don't grow very fast for some reason. I have a yearling that has just reached the 30g mark, but is finally showing steady growth. She will probably keep up with my '16 hatchlings from here on out.

 

[spartavet]

Thanks for the input, Dragonling. We just got back from the vet and I'm feeling much better. As far as he can tell from the physical exam, Oswin is a healthy, albeit small, corn snake. This is the first time I've been to this vet, but it is the only exotics vet in the area, and he told me he used to breed corn snakes and had up to 300 at one point.

Of course, by the time of the appointment, the lump was pretty much gone. I found a semi-fresh poop in the tank and brought it, but it was too dry already to be useful. I'm going to change to paper towel substrate to better monitor his poops and get a fresh one for them to test. The vet said this may be a simple case of temps not quite warm enough, so I'm going to have to get another UTH for the cool side to bump that side up. Then I can try increasing his food to 2 pinkies every 7-8 days. (Do you think that sounds good or should I still do every 5 days?) They weighed him at 18 grams, but the vet thinks his body condition is good.

Who would have thought a tiny snake could cause me so much anxiety and worry? Haha.

 

[DollysMom]

Hi Spartavet. I'm sorry I haven't been keeping up. I've been having my own vet visits with Cleo. All my best to you and Oswin. Sounds like you have a handle on it for now!

I wouldn't give two until the food lump is disappearing in a day, though in size Oswin could eat two pinks every 5 or 6 days. Once he's getting two, he should start growing. If you don't want to do double pinks there are 4 gram fuzzies that he should be able to handle one of every 5 to 6 days.

 

[spartavet]

Thanks for the support and input, DollysMom. Sorry to hear about Cleo - I hope you can figure out what's going on with her.

I've been swamped with school and life and haven't had time to do a deep clean of Oswin's tank/switch to paper towel/add the second UTH. I was planning on doing that Tuesday after taking my exam (urinary diseases ugh) and getting my second thermostat. But the warm side is still good at 85, it's been 2 weeks since he ate, he's super hungry, and the lump seemed like it was gone last week. So I take him out to give him a small-ish pinky, and... nooooo I can see a slight ventral lump at his stomach. What the heck?! He was so hungry that he actually bit me (which is a first) so I gave him the pinky anyway. I don't know if that was the right thing to do, because although it was small it left a huge lump. =/ Crap crap crap. I am sick with worry now again. He hasn't pooped yet since taking him to the vet so I haven't been able to do a fecal.

 

[DollysMom]

Hi again. No we don't know what is going on with Cleo. For the time being she's acting healthy and normal in all ways. When my finances recover a bit I will have another fine needle aspiration done and try find out exactly what the fluid in the mystery bumps is. If we know what it is maybe we can tell where it is coming from. For now all it has had is microscopic examination. Her blood work, fecal and X-rays are normal and her heart sounded normal.

About Oswin, A pinkie does make a big lump on a little snake. Are you certain he hasn't pooped? It is so easy to miss a poop, especially a little one, in the substrate. I would have fed that hungry little guy too, so at least you have that moral support. All my best to you and little Oswin. Hope your exam goes very well.

 

[spartavet]

Do you mean do a FNA and send out to a lab for evaluation? That would probably be a good idea. Or maybe a biopsy? Could they be fatty lumps (lipomas)? I may be in vet school, but they don't teach us anything about snakes, sadly, so I don't have a clue what they could be. At least she's acting normal and everything else looks good.

Pinkies do usually leave a decent sized lump, but this was quite big. His scales seemed very stretched out. He pooped last Monday and the lump had gone down a lot. And by the time we were at the vet it looked pretty much gone. So I was quite surprised to see it today. My mind immediately went to stomach is "swollen" --> big stomach plus pinky = huge lump --> crypto causes gastric hyperplasia --> we're doomed. I really, really hope I'm wrong.

 

[DollysMom]

Yes, I plan on having another a FNA and send the fluid to a lab after the first of the year, unless something changes. Definitely not lipomas. Fluid filled only. Mostly on her left side, one on her right in the last third of her body but not the tail, appearing only when her tail end is lower than her head. I suggested perhaps it was vascular, but evidently she's not presenting with the usual symptoms of vascular disease (or of anything else for that matter). All the bumps are under her skin at the 3rd/4th row above her belly scales. My vet finally was able to get pics of them, but it's a two person job and I don't have a pic or I'd post it. This is definitely unusual. Fortunately, my vet is into reptiles and is a real snake guy so that's a help.

Thanks. I got a little off of Oswin there, but did want to answer rather than referring you to my older posts. Yeah, I think my wanting to downplay Oswin's lump was wishful thinking. One thing I definitely understand is the frustration of knowing something is wrong but not being able to pin it down. I think any swelling in that area and we all think crypto. That would be my fear, too. But try not to go there too much for now if you can. My heart and prayers are with you and Oswin.

 

[Nanci]

I sold a snake as an almost yearling. She NEVER had an issue while she was with me. A few months after arriving at her new home, she regurged. Then she went through maybe 6-9 months of regurging often, going through the "treatment," getting back up to size, regurging. There was a persistant belly lump. The buyer began to fear crypto. This, of course, scared the crap out of both of us. I hadn't had any problems with the clutch, I'd owned both parents since they were hatchlings, all new snakes coming in had been PCR tested for crypto for years, so there really wasn't any possibility, but the symptoms matched exactly. Then another snake in her collection regurged. The owner tested her, and it was negative, and we breathed a huge sigh of relief. Then it happened again, and she took her to the vet and had her euthanized. The vet discovered a big abscess in her digestive tract. I replaced her with my prized keeper out of the previous year's clutch, who is thriving. So- hopefully your baby is just digesting slowly, but sometimes there is something really weird to consider. Also, I'd slit the pinks- cut slits through the head, and several down the back. This will REALLY help with digestion.