yet another fine example

[RobbiesCornField]

Thats not what he said. I would never go on disability, welfare, or any other program where i get payed for nothing. I think its a disgrace that anyone would do that.

I disagree with this statement. There are people that need SSI and welfare to be able to support themselves and their families. People with genuine disabilities that prevent them from working.

Michael and Ricky, you both mention having worked cleaning restaurants and doing summer odd jobs part time. But you always mention that you never work so much that it cuts into your SSI. That's what people are taking offense to. If you CAN stand on your own two feet and support yourself by working, why do you take such offense to the "free ride" question, when clearly, that's what your trying to get? You're milking the system, and if you work part time to afford pets and luxuries, I can't see it any other way. Would I trade unemployment for a debilitating condition? Nope. Have I ever been in your shoes? Nope. Is anything we say ever going to make you answer the original questions without you taking offense to every little thing we say? Apparently not.

 

[vetusvates]

Well,....call me stupid....but this is Off-Topic.
Incidentally, I don't have a beef with Michael or Ricky, as far as I know. I have a question or two, and debated whether as to ask in a PM or here. 'Here' does not seem too much to settle things. And you can tell me it's none of my business and I won't be bothered a bit.
I was heretofore unaware of any 'disabilities'.
So you two fellas are brothers? Twins, I guess? You have the same disability? If that's the situation, I'm glad you have the internet, and I'm glad you have snakes.
Winters in New Hampshire I can imagine can be pretty cold and pretty snowy and pretty long.
Anyhoo, my maternal grandmother had, and my baby sister has M.S. (Multiple Sclerosis)....a pretty frightening and depressing disease. So I think I am pretty sensitive to the dignity and rights of people with disabilities. I don't stigmatize people, in other words.

 

[Michael823]

I'm not even sure of the "uncle" reference that would make you think it is racial, but that's obviously the slant you are trying to make it look. If you are thinking of an "Uncle Tom," then read the book before pretending that you know enough to think I'm alluding to that. Anyone that HAS read it and sees Obama for what he really is knows how completely false such a comparison would be. It's ludicrous.
KJ

No one said it was racial, or referred it to "uncle tom" except you. The offense was taken by you saying he is like the rich uncle that provides for us, and gives us a free ride. No racial element to the offense taken whatsoever, not sure how you took it that way?

 

[RobbiesCornField]

You guys have brought it up both times in reference to unrelated government programs, and in a way that is insulting by labeling a free ride, and questioning our expenses, and associating them with our SSI paychecks.
This is a truly maddening subject, as I feel there is no way for any of you to see my perspective. Calling our SSI a free ride is what incites me, and for good reason. It's like if someone told you that you don't deserve government assistance towards equal partnership because they felt homosexuality was a choice unlike traditional marriage. You would quickly and justifiably go on the offensive, and be really hurt by such inconsiderate allegations, and I would be right there along side you defending it.

I hadn't seen this post yet, but I do think my previous statement asks a question regarding this post that merits an answer.

 

[vetusvates]

You guys have brought it up both times in reference to unrelated government programs, and in a way that is insulting by labeling a free ride, and questioning our expenses, and associating them with our SSI paychecks.
This is a truly maddening subject, as I feel there is no way for any of you to see my perspective. Calling our SSI a free ride is what incites me, and for good reason. It's like if someone told you that you don't deserve government assistance towards equal partnership because they felt homosexuality was a choice unlike traditional marriage. You would quickly and justifiably go on the offensive, and be really hurt by such inconsiderate allegations, and I would be right there along side you defending it.

Before you go any further with this parallel :
1) All I (and most) want is government recognition (the word assistance would not be appropriate here) of equal rights for civil partners, i.e. : insurance, owning property, inheritance, etc.,.......and......
2) I don't think I get hurt much anymore, no....not in a long time. Hurt is not a good word. "Fighting mad"....might be better. LOL. Growing up gay on planet Earth unfortunately requires developing nerves of steel and feelings of iron.....and.....
3) We have never had the opportunity to experience "assistance" from anybody.

So I think, not a good parallel. But I do understand/empathize with your point regarding the similarity of a mistreated minority.

EDIT : and for any liberal gays that vote democrat, voted for Obama, voted for the Clintons, etc. (and I am told there are many...LOL) .....these gays are/should be accustomed to getting let down by that democrat, once he gets into office, with regard to consideration for equal protection under the law. Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers returning home continue to be discharged if they "say" they are gay. Obama hasn't lifted a finger. He has turned his head.

 

[Michael823]

I disagree with this statement. There are people that need SSI and welfare to be able to support themselves and their families. People with genuine disabilities that prevent them from working.

Michael and Ricky, you both mention having worked cleaning restaurants and doing summer odd jobs part time. But you always mention that you never work so much that it cuts into your SSI. That's what people are taking offense to. If you CAN stand on your own two feet and support yourself by working, why do you take such offense to the "free ride" question, when clearly, that's what your trying to get? You're milking the system, and if you work part time to afford pets and luxuries, I can't see it any other way. Would I trade unemployment for a debilitating condition? Nope. Have I ever been in your shoes? Nope. Is anything we say ever going to make you answer the original questions without you taking offense to every little thing we say? Apparently not.

Too much explanation required, take any offense you would like.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Too much explanation required, take any offense you would like.

Ah, but we've got all night. I really would like to hear an explanation. I do know that your disability prevents you from working full time, so I take no offense to that. But if you can hold down a part time job, why sap off the government any more than you have to?

Oh, and on that note, I still want to hear an answer to the original question KJ posed.

 

[Michael823]

Before you go any further with this parallel :
1) All I (and most) want is government recognition (the word assistance would not be appropriate here) of equal rights for civil partners, i.e. : insurance, owning property, inheritance, etc.,.......and......
2) I don't think I get hurt much anymore, no....not in a long time. Hurt is not a good word. "Fighting mad"....might be better. LOL. Growing up gay on planet Earth unfortunately requires developing nerves of steel and feelings of iron.....and.....
3) We have never had the opportunity to experience "assistance" from anybody.

So I think, not a good parallel. But I do understand/empathize with your point regarding the similarity of a mistreated minority.

EDIT : and for any liberal gays that vote democrat, voted for Obama, voted for the Clintons, etc. (and I am told there are many...LOL) .....these gays are/should be accustomed to getting let down by that democrat, once he gets into office, with regard to consideration for equal protection under the law. Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers returning home continue to be discharged if they "say" they are gay. Obama hasn't lifted a finger. He has turned his head.

No, I didn't mean that being gay offers benefits, I know the plight and uphill battle is nowhere near the side of equality. I was simply drawing the connection between how my insides are about to burst due to peoples lack of understanding, and how someone who may be gay might feel similar to those allegations.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

No, I didn't mean that being gay offers benefits, I know the plight and uphill battle is nowhere near the side of equality. I was simply drawing the connection between how my insides are about to burst due to peoples lack of understanding, and how someone who may be gay might feel similar to those allegations.

Then help us understand! Answer the questions you've been asked instead of just shrugging them off!

 

[KJUN]

1) All I (and most) want is government recognition (the word assistance would not be appropriate here) of equal rights for civil partners, i.e. : insurance, owning property, inheritance, etc.,.......and......

How about, instead, the government just stays the hell out of both of our private lives. Domestic partner relations (i.e., for insurance, tax, etc.) purposes should be registered with the county clerk's office and left at that. The bare minimum to prevent "partner hopping" (regardless of partner preference) on insurance forms and tax forms - or something like that. This is off of the top of my head. I've just never understood why the government got involved with marriage, anyway. "Marriage" has religious connotations, and the .gov doesn't belong there. Use a new name for ALL partnerships when dealing with tax purposes and such, and leave "marriage" for a religious meaning - any religious meaning, I guess, even if that religion allows same sex marriages. (I don't know if any do, but some WILL down the road if they don't already.)

(Edit - we have to get a DBA top "Do business As" and I was trying to think of a joke title for the partner thing with the county clerk, but I couldn't think of anything that didn't make an improper pun based on a misspelling of one word, so I decided to not even try! LOL)

Further off topic - no. The connection? Because the government should also stay the hell out of my paycheck, my eating habits, my saving habits, my business, my personal life, etc. That includes all these socialist movements we've seen growing more and more since the "bad" Roosevelt - and the big movement towards a larger central government that started in the 1860s - that have conditioned people to think the government is there to take from the rich and give to the poor. It's wrong. I'm a firm believer in charity - and I have given directly and indirectly to those in need - but a welfare state is not the form of government legal in this union.

The constitution of these united states and the government as constructed was here for one purpose only: to protect those rights of its citizens that would otherwise be lost without said government....and the stay the hell out of everything else.

KJ

 

[Michael823]

Ah, but we've got all night. I really would like to hear an explanation. I do know that your disability prevents you from working full time, so I take no offense to that. But if you can hold down a part time job, why sap off the government any more than you have to?

Oh, and on that note, I still want to hear an answer to the original question KJ posed.

Okay explanation deserved, and due to us having a prior relationship of respect, I owe you it. My brother has never worked any part time job, he has two rods going through his back, on top of our disability, and physical labor of anykind is out of the question. I previously worked at a restaurant cleaning in the mornings as a means of helping my mother, seeing I am now responsible for driving her around, and it beat dropping her off at the job, turning around, and picking her up. Plus I could make a little money to get things I like, and yes disabled people like to have things too. I mostly pushed a vaccum, really about all I could do, and did it for a couple of hours three mornings a week. It paid $150 every two weeks, not anywhere near part time, and I mentioned it not cutting into my SSI just to explain that it wasn't like I was working alot and still getting SSI. I love my reptiles and pets, and no cleaning meant no pets. So I chose to do so, and made enough for it. Since the winter I have not had the job, seeing my mother found a more stable job in town, and I couldn't clean by myself. So I was unable to really get anything I wanted, no CD's, recreational trips, nothing. But this summer I have been able to make enough to support what I consider a future reptile business, by mowing a lawn and doing yard work with my mother (again because I have to drive her either way, so why not help out and have a little money). It's $40 an hour, but only a few hours every couple of weeks, which allows me to get the feeders and supplies I will need until I can find something else.

 

[Michael823]

FYI, for anyone new to this thread who is probably thinking "oh no, not these two playing the disability card again". It was in response to a post that was brought up by someone else earlier in the thread, and I felt that I had to respond. It has just lead to the same discussion, and same explanation to those who still want to question this ridiculousness.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Okay explanation deserved, and due to us having a prior relationship of respect, I owe you it. My brother has never worked any part time job, he has two rods going through his back, on top of our disability, and physical labor of anykind is out of the question.

I worked at a collections agency where all that was required of me was to sit on a computer and make phone calls all day. Could he do that kind of work?

I previously worked at a restaurant cleaning in the mornings as a means of helping my mother, seeing I am now responsible for driving her around, and it beat dropping her off at the job, turning around, and picking her up. Plus I could make a little money to get things I like, and yes disabled people like to have things too. I mostly pushed a vaccum, really about all I could do, and did it for a couple of hours three mornings a week. It paid $150 every two weeks, not anywhere near part time, and I mentioned it not cutting into my SSI just to explain that it wasn't like I was working alot and still getting SSI. I love my reptiles and pets, and no cleaning meant no pets. So I chose to do so, and made enough for it. Since the winter I have not had the job, seeing my mother found a more stable job in town, and I couldn't clean by myself. So I was unable to really get anything I wanted, no CD's, recreational trips, nothing. But this summer I have been able to make enough to support what I consider a future reptile business, by mowing a lawn and doing yard work with my mother (again because I have to drive her either way, so why not help out and have a little money). It's $40 an hour, but only a few hours every couple of weeks, which allows me to get the feeders and supplies I will need until I can find something else.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Like I mentioned at the beginning of my post, is there any way either of you could get a desk job? I know physical labor is (for the most part) out of the question, but have you checked with telemarketing agencies or collections agencies to see if they have any desk work? Or have you checked into getting a job as a front desk receptionist? Very little physical work required other than lifting a phone or typing information into a computer.

Just remember, physical labor isn't the only kind of work out there.

 

[KJUN]

Anyone who likes the idea of government run medical benefits should talk to veterans and ask them if they would go to the VA hospital preferentially over a "regular hospital" if they can afford the "regular one." It is no secret that some of the most important Americans alive - veterans - have some of the worst health benefits in the nation. That's not surprising since that is a government run facility. It is horrible, and we should all be ASHAMED that our veterans are handed such poor quality health care.

Now, if the government treats our limited number of veterans that way, how bad will it be for the rest of us when the size of that fiasco is increased geometrically. I don't think anyone can honestly say they believe what may be coming will be better than the horrible care we give out to our veterans in those government controlled/regulated medical facilities already. They deserve better, and we'll all be lucky to get even what they are getting NOW under such a plan.

Okay explanation deserved, and due to us having a prior relationship of respect, I owe you it. My brother has never worked any part time job, he has two rods going through his back, on top of our disability, and physical labor of anykind is out of the question. I previously worked at a restaurant cleaning in the mornings as a means of helping my mother, seeing I am now responsible for driving her around, and it beat dropping her off at the job, turning around, and picking her up. Plus I could make a little money to get things I like, and yes disabled people like to have things too. I mostly pushed a vaccum, really about all I could do, and did it for a couple of hours three mornings a week. It paid $150 every two weeks, not anywhere near part time, and I mentioned it not cutting into my SSI just to explain that it wasn't like I was working alot and still getting SSI. I love my reptiles and pets, and no cleaning meant no pets. So I chose to do so, and made enough for it. Since the winter I have not had the job, seeing my mother found a more stable job in town, and I couldn't clean by myself. So I was unable to really get anything I wanted, no CD's, recreational trips, nothing. But this summer I have been able to make enough to support what I consider a future reptile business, by mowing a lawn and doing yard work with my mother (again because I have to drive her either way, so why not help out and have a little money). It's $40 an hour, but only a few hours every couple of weeks, which allows me to get the feeders and supplies I will need until I can find something else.

Under ObamaCare, employees would have to pay insurance on part time employees, too. Now, if that guy that paid you a couple of hours per week had to pay for your full benefits on top of that, do you think he could afford to hire you? Unlikely, right? Even if he could, most could not...so many people like you would be forced to be let go since the employer couldn't pay the benefits. He'd have to just NOT have that part time employee instead of paying those costly benefits.

You'd likely be fired. Is that the part of the health care plan that you like?

 

[KJUN]

Just remember, physical labor isn't the only kind of work out there.

I thought of the telemarketing angle, too, Robbie. Of course, my first thought is that anyone that can communicate so quickly on the internet can find some type of job. Of course, it might not pay much more than SSI, so where is the impetus to work? That is the problem with how some things are structured in these united states IMO.

PLUS, the ADA kinda helps such people get jobs that they are qualified to have. I'm a FIRM supporter of the ADA of 1990. (Wasn't that passed, by the way, under a Republican President?)

 

[vetusvates]

How about, instead, the government just stays the hell out of both of our private lives. Domestic partner relations (i.e., for insurance, tax, etc.) purposes should be registered with the county clerk's office and left at that. The bare minimum to prevent "partner hopping" (regardless of partner preference) on insurance forms and tax forms - or something like that. This is off of the top of my head. I've just never understood why the government got involved with marriage, anyway. "Marriage" has religious connotations, and the .gov doesn't belong there. Use a new name for ALL partnerships when dealing with tax purposes and such, and leave "marriage" for a religious meaning - any religious meaning, I guess, even if that religion allows same sex marriages. (I don't know if any do, but some WILL down the road if they don't already.)

(Edit - we have to get a DBA top "Do business As" and I was trying to think of a joke title for the partner thing with the county clerk, but I couldn't think of anything that didn't make an improper pun based on a misspelling of one word, so I decided to not even try! LOL)

Further off topic - no. The connection? Because the government should also stay the hell out of my paycheck, my eating habits, my saving habits, my business, my personal life, etc. That includes all these socialist movements we've seen growing more and more since the "bad" Roosevelt - and the big movement towards a larger central government that started in the 1860s - that have conditioned people to think the government is there to take from the rich and give to the poor. It's wrong. I'm a firm believer in charity - and I have given directly and indirectly to those in need - but a welfare state is not the form of government legal in this union.

The constitution of these united states and the government as constructed was here for one purpose only: to protect those rights of its citizens that would otherwise be lost without said government....and the stay the hell out of everything else.

KJ

KJ, I find nothing here, at a glance, to disagree with.
I am no economist nor politician.
And I have said much of the following, in one fashion or another, before.
In fact, and I know fire and brimstone will rain down on me for this....from ALL directions,....but think about it first : When I vote, I try to keep my mind on two simple things, 1) who will make me feel safest as a citizen, for myself, my family, my friends, and my nation,...and 2) Who will do least damage to minority rights, which includes and ranges retrograde from gay civil unions to Roe versus Wade to Brown versus the Board of Education.

EDIT / NOTE : And when I said "All I (and most) want" in my post #45, I was daring to speak of simply the very diverse gay community in general.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I thought of the telemarketing angle, too, Robbie. Of course, my first thought is that anyone that can communicate so quickly on the internet can find some type of job. Of course, it might not pay much more than SSI, so where is the impetus to work? That is the problem with how some things are structured in these united states IMO.

PLUS, the ADA kinda helps such people get jobs that they are qualified to have. I'm a FIRM supporter of the ADA of 1990. (Wasn't that passed, by the way, under a Republican President?)

Well, when I worked at the collections agency, it paid $10.50/hr with a guaranteed 40 hrs per week plus a potential 5 hrs overtime at time and a half if you chose to take it plus commission on certain payments you collected. Unfortunately, 2 months in to that job, I had a family emergency back in FL (I was in Colorado at the time) that needed to be taken care of and I had to go back. When I got back (about 2 weeks later), my position had been refilled. I would love to have that job back.

 

[Michael823]

I worked at a collections agency where all that was required of me was to sit on a computer and make phone calls all day. Could he do that kind of work?



Thank you for clearing that up.

Yes, but around here there aren't too many jobs like that. Especially seeing he can't physically drive, and the nearest office type job would require quite a travel. That's why we look forward to the reptile business, and our artwork to take off. They provide at home work, and are both what we love to do.
I do have my license, but would need a job relatively close to home seeing I have to drive my mother around. I tried to get an application where she works, but they require some ridiculous requirement to lift 50lbs, a task I can't do. IMO it's kind of discriminatory seeing I'm sure they have plenty of tasks that don't require heavy lifting, and I have way better people skills that some of the people they hired instead, and am really diligent with any tasks.

 

[ceduke]

Thats not what he said. I would never go on disability, welfare, or any other program where i get payed for nothing. I think its a disgrace that anyone would do that.

I have a LOT to say about this part of your post but I would no doubt get banned if I said it. I will pare it down to...if you think it is a fun or easy thing to be on any sort of assistance, maybe you need to be in a position where you need it for awhile.

Disability money has allowed my husband the time he desperately needs to get his situation straightened out. It pays for meds and doctor's visits and not much else. Heck, before I got him on my insurance it didn't even cover medication. So to insinuate that he is somehow getting a free ride....:realhot: I'm beyond pissed.

It was d@mn hard to get the money to begin with, and it's JUST enough to keep us afloat. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you have to rely on someone to help you make ends meet, even temporarily.

 

[KJUN]

When I vote, I try to keep my mind on two simple things

You have me beat. My only thought when I pull that tag is "Which one will protect my second amendment rights the most or hurt them the least?" Everything else - including a minorities right to protect their rights for themselves - will ultimately depend on how good of an answer I have to my ultimate question. I admit I'm a single issue voter, but thankfully most of the other things I agree with go along with that. (I don't think anyone that knows me would be surprised that I just hope for a libertarian president as soon as possible.....lol.) I will admit, however, that ObamaCare's clause about "end of life council" for the elderly gets me more mad and more sick than anything I've heard come out of that party in a long time.....and with affirmative action becoming a part of a HEALTH CARE plan, that is saying something!