Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

[jpccusa]

So torture and Auschiwitz are the same to you as sending people who are legally Mexicans, Canadians, etc back to Mexico and Canada.

No, I am saying that to send people back to their countries considering the conditions aforementioned is inhumane. Your examples are torture, a crime. You are inverting the concepts.

I am for all the the legal immigrants obviously staying here, I am for reform so that people do have a way to come here legally, and I am for sending the criminals who came here illegally back to where they came from, because this country does not need more criminals. Send back the illegals to make room for the people who are going through the proper channels!!!!!!!!!

Illegal immigration is not a crime (find my previous post where I explained how so).

To send illegal immigrants back would never work, in my opinion (previously discussed).

I can agree to that. Though at present time is not the punishment (way they pay for their crimes), for entering the US illegally, deportation? I would assume many know what the potential punishment is before perpetrating the crime.

Yes, deportation is the present punishment, but since that punishment, if applied to 11 million "workers" would create a huge economical problem, I am in favor of alternative punishments, just like jail vs. bail.

I understand the thought behind it but getting away with a crime for an extended period still should not excuse the crime nor hinder the punishment for it.

I agree.

Maybe the fine should be all of the back taxes and reparations for all social services and education etc for the 25 years spent here illegally. :shrugs:

It could be, although that would be seen as "too easy" by many, considering this outdated article (the figures for illegal immigration have increased since 2005).

 

[danielle]

I just don't buy the "state" of any country being a sufficient reason for breaking the law. Look at countries in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and others. Yes, their governments and economies are messed up, people are tortured, raped, and killed- but here's the kicker, they apply for asylum and come here legally I would wager a good 60%-70% of all immigrants present and past came here for a better life and to escape torture and economic instability, but when they come illegally they put an economic burden on us and it's not the US's job or responsibility to nurture criminals at our cost period. File the paperwork, wait patiently, and then come here legally like my family did. Everyone has a sad story somewhere, but these stories are not an excuse to break our laws

 

[Dinah]

No, I am saying that to send people back to their countries considering the conditions aforementioned is inhumane. Your examples are torture, a crime. You are inverting the concepts.



Illegal immigration is not a crime (find my previous post where I explained how so).

To send illegal immigrants back would never work, in my opinion (previously discussed).

I am saying that torturing someone is not the same thing as sending people who are not supposed to be here back to the place where they are supposed to be. You are the one who called sending them back inhumane. I was just saying my definition of inhumane actually involves really inhumane things not some sort of wimpy they might feel uncomfortable being in a culture that they are not used to any more....well BOO HOO. When you break the law uncomfortable things happen to you. That is the risk you take when you choose to break the law. We do offer an asylum option in this country so the idea that we would send people to their doom is just an exercise in hysterics.

It is illegal for them to be here, if you a want to argue crime or not you can find someone else. To me that distinction is very clear, you either complied with the law and followed the proper procedures or you did not and if you did not then to me in my opinion you are a criminal (not you specifically jp or anyone else here specifically). There is not some sort of grey area to me, you are either in compliance with the law or you are not.

You said that in your opinion sending the illegals back would never work, well ok, but that isn't really helpful anyone can counter that with well in my opinion it will work/help. I know that if there where fewer illegals here it would have been much easier for me to find a job last year when I was looking for one. So in that regard it would work for me....yeah, yeah I am cold and heartless and don't care that those people also need jobs, and the reality is that is true, I don't care. I care about the dignity of people, and I think as private citizens we should work really hard to help anyone who is in need, but Business is business, and running a country is just like running a business. People who are here legally are the only people here who have any business being employed or earing wages.

Lets say America was your house. And you had your family that you were responsible for, but there where also these other people who were not supposed to be at your house, and they weren't invited, and they have been sleeping on your sofa for 20 years and eating your food. When tough financial times come along and you have to choose between letting your uninvited persons continue to mooch or feeding your family, I bet you will be asking your moocher to leave. I personally would not even for a second hesitate to say get out, this is my house you don't belong here, and you are eating the food I need to feed my family. Millions of American's are out of work, our economy is in the toilet, being generous is great and all, but American's and other people who are here legally need those jobs, and the illegals have no right to them.

I know you call them 11 million workers, but if we could manage to get rid of all 11 million of the criminals, then we would have 11 million jobs available for the people who are actually supposed to be working here in the US. Then unemployment wouldn't be at 10 percent, and millions of US citizens would be working instead of drawing unemployment, more legal workers means more income taxes are being paid, and there would be room for the people who are trying to come to this country in a respectful and legal way.

 

[diamondlil]

Illegal immigration is not a crime (find my previous post where I explained how so).

Yes it is!

 

[jpccusa]

Perhaps the definition of crime should be further discussed.

When I say illegal immigration is not a crime in the USA, I am referring to the fact that they won't be judged in a criminal court, or put into a Federal prison.

There are only civil penalties that can be applied to an illegal immigrant.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001325----000-.html

"A civil penalty or civil fine is a term used to describe when a state entity, government agency, or private party seeks monetary relief against an individual as restitution for wrongdoing by the individual. The wrongdoing is typically defined by a codification of legislation, regulations, and decrees. The civil fine is not considered to be a criminal punishment, because it is primarily sought in order to compensate the state for harm done to it, rather than to punish the wrongful conduct."

 

[Buzzard]

Illegal immigration is not a crime (find my previous post where I explained how so).

To send illegal immigrants back would never work, in my opinion (previously discussed).

Define illegal.....

illegal immigration is a crime. Thats why they get detained when caught.

Sending illegal immigrants back is the way it needs to work.

I think we all agree the laws on immigration could and probably should change. Until they do this is the way it is. I said before"AZ and other states arent getting the help they need from the FEDs so they are simply taking matters into their own hands." 42 states in this great nation require people to bring birth certificates(BC) and other forms of ID to get your DL. The BC is so that they can proof they are US citizens. So are these states doing something wrong..... In fact a canidate for Gov. here said, if he was elected that the states DL test would only be in English. His explaination, all the road signs are in english, how would he expect a person who could not read english to follow the traffic laws. It would save almost a 1/2 million dollars a year in translator, paper work for the AL Dept of Motor Vehciles. Do you think this is wrong? (To an extent I do, but there are some valid points to it).

 

[jpccusa]

..., but when they come illegally they put an economic burden on us and it's not the US's job or responsibility to nurture criminals at our cost period.

How so?

You are generalizing by claiming that all illegal immigrants are a burden to the system. The truth is that many have no adverse affect to the government, and many others have a positive affect. That's why the government has been ignoring the issue for so long.

If you had people stealing from your house, would you wait more than 20 years to put some better locks on your doors or to hide your valuable items better?

I know illegal immigrants who have a decent job, pay income taxes, spend as we do (or more), have private health insurance, etc. How are they negatively affecting the country while being here illegally?

Yes it is!

Wanna try to prove it Janine? :cheers:

Define illegal.....

adj.

1. Prohibited by law.
2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.

illegal immigration is a crime.

Wanna try to prove that? :cheers:

Thats why they get detained when caught

They get detained because they are here illegally AND do not have proper identification. See, if a person who overstayed a work visa (an illegal immigrant) gets caught by ICE, they can show a valid government document (DL or ID) and go on with their "illegal immigrant" life.

Sending illegal immigrants back is the way it needs to work.

In your opinion, and I respect that.

 

[Dinah]

How so?
You are generalizing by claiming that all illegal immigrants are a burden to the system. The truth is that many have no adverse affect to the government, and many others have a positive affect.

I know illegal immigrants who have a decent job, pay income taxes, spend as we do (or more), have private health insurance, etc. How are they negatively affecting the country while being here illegally?

Well among other things they are taking a job that rightfully they should not have from someone who is here legally that needs a job...therefore they are taking a job, a livelihood, and on a basic level food from someone who does have a right to be here. I would consider that a HUGE toll to the system

As for criminal, illegal etc - http://en.Wiktionary.org/wiki/criminal

You are either here legally or you are not. If you are here in violation of the law, then you are a criminal. It is like you are either at/under the speed limit or you are a criminal, I suppose we can call them a speeder so they wont feel so bad about breaking the law, but no matter how you label it criminal or speeder the facts still remain that you are breaking the law. Yes you will only get a civil penalty (a ticket) but that doesn't mean that you did not commit a crime by speeding. If someone is here illegally that is against the law and they are a criminal. Things that are against the law are called crimes and people who commit crimes are called criminals. It doesn't matter if you have a criminal or civil penalty as a result of breaking the law, you still broke a law and breaking the law is still a crime, and that makes the person doing it a Criminal.

 

[jpccusa]

Well among other things they are taking a job that rightfully they should not have from someone who is here legally that needs a job...therefore they are taking a job, a livelihood, and on a basic level food from someone who does have a right to be here. I would consider that a HUGE toll to the system

I can see how that would be true, although I don't think unemployment should be associated with illegal immigration but with the economic recession. If companies start to see economic growth, the level of unemployment would decrease. Now deport 11 million people and what happens to economic growth? :nope:

As for criminal, illegal etc - http://en.Wiktionary.org/wiki/criminal

So I am a criminal, since I broke several traffic laws. The English definition is different than the legal definition.

You are either here legally or you are not. If you are here in violation of the law, then you are a criminal. It is like you are either at/under the speed limit or you are a criminal, I suppose we can call them a speeder so they wont feel so bad about breaking the law, but no matter how you label it criminal or speeder the facts still remain that you are breaking the law. Yes you will only get a civil penalty (a ticket) but that doesn't mean that you did not commit a crime by speeding. If someone is here illegally that is against the law and they are a criminal. Things that are against the law are called crimes and people who commit crimes are called criminals. It doesn't matter if you have a criminal or civil penalty as a result of breaking the law, you still broke a law and breaking the law is still a crime, and that makes the person doing it a Criminal.

So we agree we are using different definitions of the term "crime." Whew!!!

So as a criminal (as in the loose definition of the term), why can't illegal immigrants be provided with options to pay for their crime (as in the loose.. blah blah blah) as people who are sent to jail have the option to bail their way out? Why the most strict, unpractical, expensive, dangerous (for the US), and inhumane punishment should be applied?

 

[Buzzard]

Crime

Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. Individual human societies may each define crime and crimes differently. While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime; for example: breaches of contract and of other civil law may rank as "offences" or as "infractions". Crimes are generally considered offenses against the public or the state.


From the Online dictonary Wikipedia

Every illegal immigrant goes in front of a repersentitive of our system. Illegal immigration is not an offence or an infraction it is a crime.

 

[jpccusa]

Crime

Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. Individual human societies may each define crime and crimes differently. While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime; for example: breaches of contract and of other civil law may rank as "offences" or as "infractions". Crimes are generally considered offenses against the public or the state.


From the Online dictonary Wikipedia

Every illegal immigrant goes in front of a repersentitive of our system. Illegal immigration is not an offence or an infraction it is a crime.

It is more complicated than that, but keep calling it a crime if that makes sense to you - "Individual human societies may each define crime and crimes differently."

The following sentence supports what I have been saying about illegal immigration not being a crime - "While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime;"

 

[Buzzard]

adj.

1. Prohibited by law.
2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.

your number 1

Crime is the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction.

Everyone detained (illegal) has a say in a court. What is so hard to understand that. They wouldnt be detained unless it was criminal. Infact how else do they know that these people keep coming back into our country time and time again. They have a criminal record...

There punishment for this criminal act is deportation.

 

[susang]

When I say undocumented people will do work documented people won't I will clarify. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, if one works a 40 hour week that= $290.00 gross net would be roughly $232.00. So Dinah the $275.00 you are complaining about in unemployment is more then min. wage. You didn't like that so you will do whatever for minimum wage or less if you were undocumented. I might also add try living on SS which in many cases even for professional people will not be very much. Not everyone has the benefit of 401K, or any type of retirement.
Inhumane is as I see exactly what it would be to send people back to a country where they have never lived, not a boohoo. Auschwitz was the result of Hitler saying Jews were bad people, whether they were from Germany, Poland, Austria... actaully any Jew was bad simply by birth, he also put arm bands on gays and those that had any speck of Jewish blood. It started so innocently and ended so badly. Just as this is going to end, no one will be happy.

 

[desertanimal]

I just don't buy the "state" of any country being a sufficient reason for breaking the law. Look at countries in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and others. Yes, their governments and economies are messed up, people are tortured, raped, and killed- but here's the kicker, they apply for asylum and come here legally I would wager a good 60%-70% of all immigrants present and past came here for a better life and to escape torture and economic instability, but when they come illegally they put an economic burden on us and it's not the US's job or responsibility to nurture criminals at our cost period. File the paperwork, wait patiently, and then come here legally like my family did. Everyone has a sad story somewhere, but these stories are not an excuse to break our laws

(emphasis mine)

This made me laugh out loud. Though the general tone of your post did not. Certainly not all of the people who are tortured and raped and who might like to gain asylum in the U.S. are able to do so. And clearly you have never lived in Africa or had to deal with African bureaucracy, or probably even American bureaucracy without enough funds to feed your children, without the possibility of safely finding your way to the embassy, or when the embassy doesn't have the right paperwork for you to fill out. The governments these people flee are usually corrupt--if they weren't then they'd be working for the people well enough for the people to stay. Just imagine trying to apply for a visa to enter another country with no internet, no telephone, having to travel to the nearest embassy with no car, having to find a place to stay near the embassy with no money, having to wait days and days until the right official will see you only to be told that there are no forms. Then imagine doing that when the government is full of officials who belong to the group of people who tortured you, raped your mother, and murdered your father in the first place.

I find it astonishing that you can talk about people who are being raped, tortured, and murdered in one breath and say, "File the paperwork, wait patiently, and then come here legally like my family did," in the next.

The immigration issue is a very complicated one and I don't have a good answer, but one thing is certain--not all decent people who have a good and compelling reason to come will be able to find their here way legally. Don't pretend that it's a real option for all. It isn't, for perhaps as many different reasons as there are populations who'd like to immigrate. It is a real option for those with money, for those with connections, and for those who get lucky (or sometimes, sufficiently UNlucky), but not for all. And that may be fine with you--that only the wealthy and well-connected are realistically able to immigrate legally, but at least admit that the legal doors are closed to some and don't continue to pretend that they are really open to all and that all these people have to do is leave, file the paperwork, wait patiently, and then come back to be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Dinah]

I can see how that would be true, although I don't think unemployment should be associated with illegal immigration but with the economic recession. If companies start to see economic growth, the level of unemployment would decrease. Now deport 11 million people and what happens to economic growth? :nope:

So I am a criminal, since I broke several traffic laws. The English definition is different than the legal definition.

So we agree we are using different definitions of the term "crime." Whew!!!

So as a criminal (as in the loose definition of the term), why can't illegal immigrants be provided with options to pay for their crime (as in the loose.. blah blah blah) as people who are sent to jail have the option to bail their way out? Why the most strict, unpractical, expensive, dangerous (for the US), and inhumane punishment should be applied?

I do not think the the illegal immigrants made the economy bad, I think that with their bodies in the jobs it makes it much much much harder for American's and other people who are legally here to get a job. Additionally it should be one of America's first priorities to get our people working again. After our folks are taken care of, then we can worry about the rest of the world and their job situations. There should not be a single Illegal working in the country so long as we have qualified hard working people on unemployment that actually belong here.

Yes traffic laws are laws and when you break a law you are committing a crime. People who commit crimes are criminals. But I will be happy to refer to you as a speeder rather than as a law breaking criminal if that makes you feel better. I believe in citizens having a voice in their government. People are welcome to protest a law, and they are welcome to get different people elected in order to change a law, you can sue and appeal a law, demonstrate against it whatever floats your boat, but at the end of the day there are only two side you can be on. You are either following the law or you are not. One of the great things is that we can speak out against laws and protest them and keep at it for as long as we want. We have a lot of options available to us for fighting laws we do not agree with. There is however one option that is not acceptable, and that is the one where you break the law.

I don't know how you define Crime but this is how I define it.

crime - A specific act committed in violation of the law.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crime
Criminal - Someone who commits a crime (this my own paraphrased definition)
or if you prefer their definition "Guilty of breaking the law."
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criminal


So then this leaves me wondering if we are using different definitions of crime, then how would you define a crime? I have never meet anyone before who didn't define crime and criminal the way I posted above.

If you are asking me why we don't fine people and let them make bail more, I will tell you we are already WAY to soft on crime. The reason we have so much of crime is because people know they can probably get out of it somehow. So I say stop being soft on crime both the kinds committed by legals and illegal residents as well as those committed by our citizens.

Locking people in prison away from their families is expensive for the US, so should we just swing open the doors and let them all free? Certainly that is the less expensive and easiest option, but no of course we don't. Laws don't just stop applying because it is difficult to enforce them. Additionally if you define inhumane as forcing people to live in dangerous situations where the culture might be scary then you should definitely be for freeing all of our inmates. The prison culture is both dangerous and terrifying. Jail culture is brutal and people get knifed and killed and beaten in jail all the time....are you still willing to subject our prisoners to those conditions? What about illegal immigrant makes them better than just our regular criminals? Why do the illegal immigrants deserve to have their crimes go unpunished...why do they get to carry on with their lives, when other criminals have to spend time in inhumane prisons immersed in a culture that they are not familiar with and probably terrified of? What is so special about the illegal immigrants that makes it so that us actual Americans are not above the law, but the illegal are above the law?

 

[desertanimal]

BTW, the "you" in my last paragraph (above) is plural, not singular. It goes out to all the "pretenders."

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

I guess the one thing I really do not get is how (and why) are we supposed to take care of the rest of the world when we cannot even take care of our own problems at home? How many unemployed do we have in the US currently? How many homeless living on our streets (including our own veterans?). How many of our own disasters to take care of (flooding in TN right now, the oil rig spill we are trying to clean up etc...)? How many women and children living in shelters due to domestic violence right here in the US? And yet we are supposed to keep on giving to everyone else? Why don't we focus on our own people and our own problems first? Why does no other country lend us a helping hand in solving these problems yet expect us to take in all of their illegal immigrants like it is no big deal?
I am sorry - I don't care what people think of me for saying this either - I am sick of it. I am sick of people looking for handouts, sick of people expecting that they can just come here illegally and reap all the great things about this country when we have our hands full with our own problems already without this adding more to it. Sick of people expecting we are just going to keep bending over and taking it because we are the USA and we are supposed to support everyone for everything all the damn time.

I am not saying that I don't feel sorry for people living in some backwards third world country that has problems even worse than ours as noted by Stephanie - of course I feel for them. But that doesn't make it my problem. I have my own problems to deal with - no - maybe not as severe - but in MY life they are MY problems and I have to sort those out before I could even consider helping out someone in a foreign country. And I know there are a lot of people out there who feel the same. I see the same sentiments posted on message boards all over the internet by all types of people here in the US - all ages, both sexes, all races etc....

Edit to add - as a sidenote - this is why I usually try to stay out of these kinds of threads. I get too worked up about anything even slightly related to politics.

 

[Buzzard]

:cheers:

I guess the one thing I really do not get is how (and why) are we supposed to take care of the rest of the world when we cannot even take care of our own problems at home? How many unemployed do we have in the US currently? How many homeless living on our streets (including our own veterans?). How many of our own disasters to take care of (flooding in TN right now, the oil rig spill we are trying to clean up etc...)? How many women and children living in shelters due to domestic violence right here in the US? And yet we are supposed to keep on giving to everyone else? Why don't we focus on our own people and our own problems first? Why does no other country lend us a helping hand in solving these problems yet expect us to take in all of their illegal immigrants like it is no big deal?
I am sorry - I don't care what people think of me for saying this either - I am sick of it. I am sick of people looking for handouts, sick of people expecting that they can just come here illegally and reap all the great things about this country when we have our hands full with our own problems already without this adding more to it. Sick of people expecting we are just going to keep bending over and taking it because we are the USA and we are supposed to support everyone for everything all the damn time.

I am not saying that I don't feel sorry for people living in some backwards third world country that has problems even worse than ours as noted by Stephanie - of course I feel for them. But that doesn't make it my problem. I have my own problems to deal with - no - maybe not as severe - but in MY life they are MY problems and I have to sort those out before I could even consider helping out someone in a foreign country. And I know there are a lot of people out there who feel the same. I see the same sentiments posted on message boards all over the internet by all types of people here in the US - all ages, both sexes, all races etc....

Edit to add - as a sidenote - this is why I usually try to stay out of these kinds of threads. I get too worked up about anything even slightly related to politics.

:cheers: Have one on me. I feel the same way.

 

[jpccusa]

The immigration issue is a very complicated one and I don't have a good answer, but one thing is certain--not all decent people who have a good and compelling reason to come will be able to find their here way legally. Don't pretend that it's a real option for all. It isn't, for perhaps as many different reasons as there are populations who'd like to immigrate. It is a real option for those with money, for those with connections, and for those who get lucky (or sometimes, sufficiently UNlucky), but not for all. And that may be fine with you--that only the wealthy and well-connected are realistically able to immigrate legally, but at least admit that the legal doors are closed to some and don't continue to pretend that they are really open to all and that all these people have to do is leave, file the paperwork, wait patiently, and then come back to be welcomed with open arms.

Great post, and let me add that the opposite to the bold sentence above is also true. Let me remind you that the 9/11 hijackers were legal immigrants.

I do not think the the illegal immigrants made the economy bad, I think that with their bodies in the jobs it makes it much much much harder for American's and other people who are legally here to get a job. Additionally it should be one of America's first priorities to get our people working again. After our folks are taken care of, then we can worry about the rest of the world and their job situations. There should not be a single Illegal working in the country so long as we have qualified hard working people on unemployment that actually belong here.

So are you saying you'd rather employ even the super inefficient American workers over super efficient illegal immigrants. If not, where do you draw the line as to determine who is "qualified hard working" and who is not? Why not let markets decide for themselves to hire the best available (job competition) by allowing illegal immigrants to become legal immigrants hence boosting the economy out of the recession and therefore decreasing the unemployment rate?

Yes traffic laws are laws and when you break a law you are committing a crime. People who commit crimes are criminals. But I will be happy to refer to you as a speeder rather than as a law breaking criminal if that makes you feel better. I believe in citizens having a voice in their government. People are welcome to protest a law, and they are welcome to get different people elected in order to change a law, you can sue and appeal a law, demonstrate against it whatever floats your boat, but at the end of the day there are only two side you can be on. You are either following the law or you are not. One of the great things is that we can speak out against laws and protest them and keep at it for as long as we want. We have a lot of options available to us for fighting laws we do not agree with. There is however one option that is not acceptable, and that is the one where you break the law.

I don't know how you define Crime but this is how I define it.

crime - A specific act committed in violation of the law.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crime
Criminal - Someone who commits a crime (this my own paraphrased definition)
or if you prefer their definition "Guilty of breaking the law."
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criminal


So then this leaves me wondering if we are using different definitions of crime, then how would you define a crime? I have never meet anyone before who didn't define crime and criminal the way I posted above.

I quote my previous post:

"Individual human societies may each define crime and crimes differently."

The following sentence supports what I have been saying about illegal immigration not being a crime - "While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime;"

If you are asking me why we don't fine people and let them make bail more, I will tell you we are already WAY to soft on crime. The reason we have so much of crime is because people know they can probably get out of it somehow. So I say stop being soft on crime both the kinds committed by legals and illegal residents as well as those committed by our citizens.

"Yes, so let's start enforcing tougher laws on illegal immigrants since that will not scream "xenophobia" to the rest of the world!" :nope:

Locking people in prison away from their families is expensive for the US, so should we just swing open the doors and let them all free? Certainly that is the less expensive and easiest option, but no of course we don't. Laws don't just stop applying because it is difficult to enforce them. Additionally if you define inhumane as forcing people to live in dangerous situations where the culture might be scary then you should definitely be for freeing all of our inmates. The prison culture is both dangerous and terrifying. Jail culture is brutal and people get knifed and killed and beaten in jail all the time....are you still willing to subject our prisoners to those conditions? What about illegal immigrant makes them better than just our regular criminals? Why do the illegal immigrants deserve to have their crimes go unpunished...why do they get to carry on with their lives, when other criminals have to spend time in inhumane prisons immersed in a culture that they are not familiar with and probably terrified of? What is so special about the illegal immigrants that makes it so that us actual Americans are not above the law, but the illegal are above the law?

I am not saying it would be difficult to enforce them... I am saying it would be impossible by reasons previously discussed.

I believe I was clean when I explained what I thought inhumane was... you are now selective reading my posts.

Besides, illegal immigrants don't go to jail for being here illegally. They go to immigration detention centers. You are also implying I am advocating about letting all illegal immigrants (currently detained or not) to be freed, when I never said that.

 

[Dinah]

When I say undocumented people will do work documented people won't I will clarify. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, if one works a 40 hour week that= $290.00 gross net would be roughly $232.00. So Dinah the $275.00 you are complaining about in unemployment is more then min. wage. You didn't like that so you will do whatever for minimum wage or less if you were undocumented. I might also add try living on SS which in many cases even for professional people will not be very much. Not everyone has the benefit of 401K, or any type of retirement.
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Yes 275 per week is approx what a person making minimum wage would make. If I had been able to get a minimum wage job when my husband was out of work it was have turned his 275 weekly into his 275 + my 275 = 550 weekly because his unemployment would not have been effected by me taking a job. Plus my husband would have been happy to work minimum wage landscaping or something like that just for the fact that then he would have been earning his money rather than just having it sent to him for doing nothing. I was not being picky about what I had to do for my job I will clean houses or be a janitor, wait tables, nanny whatever you want. And I would have been happy to accept an offer of minimum wage, but as a law abiding citizen I am not willing to accept less than that.....why because it is not legal to work for less than minimum wage. I should not have to compete for a minimum wage job with people who are here illegally, and I should definitely not be expected to break the law myself by accepting less than minimum wage.

If me and someone else also here legally applies for the some job and I don't get the job then that is just my tough luck, but if I am willing to work a job for minimum wage and an illegal is willing to do it for 5 an hour and the illegal gets the job, well that is just not ok, and that is what is happening right now. When an illegal takes an underpaid job, they are not preventing a legal person from having that job, they are also pulling the pay scale down for everyone. Business who utilize the cheaper labor are able to do business more cheaply and they put other law abiding businesses out of business. It is a burden to people who want to work and can't find a job and it is burden to companies that want to do business legally and cannot compete because the other companies are getting dirt cheap illegal labor.

I am not some sort of spoiled rich brat who couldn't possible be bothered to work just because the benefits are not up to my high standards. I grew up poor and I mean REALLY poor. My husband I are only able to live comfortable and with savings because we work really hard. We are down right militant about saving and budgeting, and paying as we go rather than taking on debt. We go without a lot of stuff that most people take for granted not because we couldn't afford it, but because we would prefer to feel confident that we are financially secure, and because we do want to have savings when we retire (for example we would never waste money on something like a clothes dryer, or a second car, or even a TV and cable for that matter). It is because of that that we were able to survive 6 months of unemployment unscathed and still debt free. I am not complaing that we were lucky enough to get 275 a week, I am complaing because it took us 6 months of looking every day in order to get employed, meanwhile 11 million illegal people are here in this country working right now.