S.O's feelings with animals/pets

[EsotericForest]

I can think of at least 12 couples I know personally, who have been married over 20 years, and their beliefs on marriage are pretty much par with mine. Many of them have in fact sat me down and talked with me before my own wedding, and have told me many of the things I've been saying here as well.

 

[EsotericForest]

Let me say, though, that I think you've handled yourself quite well for a 20-year old man throughout this whole discussion. And I really do mean that. That demographic is not characterized by a great deal of self-control, and I think you've done that as well as be earnest and honest.

Well I do appreciate that. Thank you for the compliment. Trust me, I'm the first to admit that I have a lot to learn haha.

 

[kathylove]

WOW - you're only 20 years old?

Then I must congratulate you. I thought you were much older. That also helps me understand a little better where you are coming from, (I WISH the system would not have removed ages with the rep points!).

Considering your age, you have posted in a very mature and thoughtful way, IMO. We have had MANY members around your age who would have not been able to maintain a steady emotional state when their core values have been challenged. I think most of the participants of this thread are considerably older. So I feel your willingness to have a thoughtful and non-confrontational debate at such a young age bodes well for your future ability to get along with the different kinds of people you will meet. Just continue to keep an open mind as you season a little over the next decade or two, lol!

However, I do think it is likely that some of your opinions may broaden a little as you age and gain experience, and also as you observe various friends and acquaintances over the years, and learn from those observations, too. Some things just take experience, no matter how mature and logical you are when you are young. Many 20 year olds are absolutely sure that they are absolutely right about everything, lol! But you seem to be willing to learn about other religions and other viewpoints, while still retaining your core values. I liked that you agreed with desertanimal's post that basically said that different things will make different people happy, and that adults should think for themselves. And you seem to be very thoughtful about how those important (to you) religious values will fit into your life and those you care about. So I don't fault you for not knowing about Buddhism (even though I think you are way off - check it out because it is almost more of a philosophy than religion, and provokes a lot of thoughtful examination of life, motives, etc). Most people don't know much about it unless they found it of special interest. And you have lots of years ahead of you to explore other philosophies and perspectives. As long as you acknowledge that others may be happy on a different path than you choose, then I think you will be happy on the one you have chosen for yourself.

 

[EsotericForest]

Then I must congratulate you. I thought you were much older. That also helps me understand a little better where you are coming from, (I WISH the system would not have removed ages with the rep points!).

Considering your age, you have posted in a very mature and thoughtful way, IMO. We have had MANY members around your age who would have not been able to maintain a steady emotional state when their core values have been challenged. I think most of the participants of this thread are considerably older. So I feel your willingness to have a thoughtful and non-confrontational debate at such a young age bodes well for your future ability to get along with the different kinds of people you will meet. Just continue to keep an open mind as you season a little over the next decade or two, lol!

However, I do think it is likely that some of your opinions may broaden a little as you age and gain experience, and also as you observe various friends and acquaintances over the years, and learn from those observations, too. Some things just take experience, no matter how mature and logical you are when you are young. Many 20 year olds are absolutely sure that they are absolutely right about everything, lol! But you seem to be willing to learn about other religions and other viewpoints, while still retaining your core values. I liked that you agreed with desertanimal's post that basically said that different things will make different people happy, and that adults should think for themselves. And you seem to be very thoughtful about how those important (to you) religious values will fit into your life and those you care about. So I don't fault you for not knowing about Buddhism (even though I think you are way off - check it out because it is almost more of a philosophy than religion, and provokes a lot of thoughtful examination of life, motives, etc). Most people don't know much about it unless they found it of special interest. And you have lots of years ahead of you to explore other philosophies and perspectives. As long as you acknowledge that others may be happy on a different path than you choose, then I think you will be happy on the one you have chosen for yourself.

I appreciate the encouragement and the kind words. You have a gift for bringing a wise word into a sea of borderline chaos haha.

Even though I do find fault with Buddhism, I will investigate it further so I can at least have a better understanding of it. I have gotten the impression that it's more of a philosophy than a religion, but I honestly don't know a whole lot about it. I have a bit better understanding of Muslims, or Mormons because I did actually take a class on each. Buddhism just hasn't hit my radar yet I suppose haha.

 

[kathylove]

Darn!

I write WAY too slowly! By the time I am finished, I see other posts have already said some of what I was writing! But that's ok - each person has their own way of saying it!

 

[EsotericForest]

I write WAY too slowly! By the time I am finished, I see other posts have already said some of what I was writing! But that's ok - each person has their own way of saying it!

I know, sometimes topics can be quite difficult to keep up with when you have several people all giving input at once

 

[desertanimal]

I write WAY too slowly! By the time I am finished, I see other posts have already said some of what I was writing! But that's ok - each person has their own way of saying it!

You said it much better, Kathy, and I agree with everything you said!

 

[EsotericForest]

I think we've just seen a prime example of why it's important at times to slow down, and consider what you're writing more carefully. Something I know I myself should work much harder at. I'm a person who tends to respond more quickly than I should, and then I end up saying something I didn't mean to, or I word something wrong and give a completely wrong impression.

 

[kathylove]

I STILL do that sometimes, haha!

But I did it a LOT more when I was 20!

 

[desertanimal]

Whoa . . . I was just surfing. I thought the woman's place in a marriage was a hot-button topic. But no, apparently that is much less rage-inducing than whether tesseras are hybrids. Wow. sers!

 

[MysticExotics]

I don't really care what the rest of the world thinks is correct. If you haven't noticed, I have a higher authority to answer to...not what culture accept to be true. The interesting point is that for Christians who are involved in their church, and take their faith seriously...the divorce rate is much much lower than the current secular levels. Obviously we must be doing something right, you have to admit. A lot of people say they're Christians, but most aren't living their faith even remotely. People who actually make an effort to follow God and the Bible, get divorced far less often.

Not necessarily.....I was raised in a very strict, christian home. My mom & stepdad were/are both very religious, & very christian, & they are both still active in the church, yet they ended up divorced.

I mentioned you having to throw in the variables for a reason. The majority of the United States claims to be Christian...but that couldn't be further from the truth. This is why I said that you have to actually have a relationship with Christ, be INVOLVED in your church...which doesn't mean just going every Sunday. It means serving...hosting a community group, leading worship, something. If you are actually serving IN your church...then the divorce rate plummets. Most people who say they're Christian, don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

The "holier than thou" attitude is the reason I chose not to follow any organized religion. Look at all of the religions that believe that the others are wrong. Who's to say that yours is right & all others are wrong? (Speaking in general, not necessarily to you directly.)

I now consider myself spiritual, & not religious. I got tired of the church talking about how right they were, & others were wrong, for not believing or living as they do.
I respect each persons choice to follow what they believe in, or do not believe in. That is the beauty of living in the U.S.A. We can chose to believe what we want.

Let me say, though, that I think you've handled yourself quite well for a 20-year old man throughout this whole discussion. And I really do mean that. That demographic is not characterized by a great deal of self-control, and I think you've done that as well as be earnest and honest.

I agree with this. I respect you for this.
Other threads have proven how low some people are willing to stoop, when someone disagrees with them.

I appreciate the encouragement and the kind words. You have a gift for bringing a wise word into a sea of borderline chaos haha.

Even though I do find fault with Buddhism, I will investigate it further so I can at least have a better understanding of it. I have gotten the impression that it's more of a philosophy than a religion, but I honestly don't know a whole lot about it. I have a bit better understanding of Muslims, or Mormons because I did actually take a class on each. Buddhism just hasn't hit my radar yet I suppose haha.

I appreciate the fact that you are willing to learn more about other religions, however, that statement is why I personally no longer consider myself christian, because I don't believe there is only one right religion. I feel that each person has to find their own faith, however that may be.

 

[Kali]

Whoa . . . I was just surfing. I thought the woman's place in a marriage was a hot-button topic. But no, apparently that is much less rage-inducing than whether tesseras are hybrids. Wow. sers!

It's not the topic that's less enraging. It's the decency and respect of how the people are talking to each other. If EsotericForest had talked more fanatic or insulting about the subject (or those opposed of course), everybody would be in armes by now...

Who's to say that yours is right & all others are wrong?

I would think that if you honestly believe in a certain religion, you would be convinced that the others are wrong. Otherwise you wouldn't be a true believer right?


While I don't agree with the leadership or headship being in hands of the man, I do believe you handle that vieuw in a really good way, and you and your wife are more equal than it initially sounded.
But I still think that if you make decisions together, you also share the responsability of those desicions. To me it wouldn't seem fair any other way...

 

[Dinah]

Buddism is more of a self-indulgence religion than anything.

Besides it still isn't what I'm talking about. It's not a god granting grace in spite of their sinful ways...it's a god saying to do whatever the crap they want and just depend on yourself for everything. There is a difference, so my broad sweeping statement still stands.

Everybody does need to remember that I am only a 20 year old man, who has more than enough garbage on my own plate. I don't feel competent enough on this subject to really be worthy of teaching it, so I'm simply doing my best to explain it the best I can. Unfortunately I honestly feel like I'm doing a poor job. I apologize for my lack of wisdom in explaining some of the things I believe to be true...things that I feel God has convicted of me of, and things far wiser men and women than I have explained to me. Unfortunately I'm not them, and I apologize for perhaps turning some people off to some of these beliefs, due to my immature explanations. When I have everybody around me pretty much against me, I know I turn into the fight or flight mode, and I can get a bit abrasive. I apologize that my frustration with myself is so plain to be seen, when you see how much I attack others. More than anything I want to help others, and just give simple advice. I'll try from now on to handle things more maturely, and be more respectful of others here.

I can think of at least 12 couples I know personally, who have been married over 20 years, and their beliefs on marriage are pretty much par with mine. Many of them have in fact sat me down and talked with me before my own wedding, and have told me many of the things I've been saying here as well.

Yep the world is over run with all those self indulgent Buddhists running around. My own Father as an Irish/Catholic/alcoholic has even called Buddhism a form of paganism even though really there is no god figure involved, but honestly I have never met anyone misinformed enough to call Buddhism self indulgent. I have to ask why you would say that? I never once said oh well since it is just your imaginary god who tells you these things then I can disregard it, I never said Christians are misogynistic, patronizing, and outdated, so why do you feel comfortable falsely characterizing a religion in such an implied negativity way when obviously you have not carefully looked into Buddhism. Lets just clear up one thing real fast (if you are truly interested in Buddhism, then I'm sure you know where the google is). Buddhism is about a lot of things but I have never met a Buddhist teacher or read a Buddhist book that recommended being self indulgent. Buddhism is formed around the 4 noble truths (to paraphrase)
1. All life is suffering.
2. Suffering is caused by craving.
3. Suffering ends when craving ends.
4. The ending of craving and suffering can be achieved.
All that dreary suffering controlling cravings talk certainly makes Buddhism sound so self indulgent doesn't it? Yes there are other facets to Buddhist teachings, but these are the 4 noble truths from which everything else is based. So hopefully that will serve as a good staring point. If you wish to look into it further. If you want to know how Buddhist are supposed to self indulgnetly overcome craving then google 8 fold path but know these are principals/recommendations and not commandments. Buddha said himself he was just a teacher, he never claimed the authority to command people or to judge them.

I have not claimed nor even has Buddha himself claimed that he is or was a god with the power to approve of or condemn others. The Buddha called himself nothing more than a teacher.

The problem I have is not so much that your explanation are immature, as much as that you are taking just what you know about life/religion/marriage and saying that that is the right way for things to be. You have not answered what it is about a man that makes him more able to be a leader. The only answer you gave was that women were talentless and that in a book that you believe it says so, so therefore it must be true for all of us. Well if you are looking to change people minds you are gonna have to be able to list a quality or ability or something that men have that women do not have.

It is excellent that you took the time to speak with people who have been married and that you respect. I am sure that having mentors whom you look up to will be very helpful to you in your journey. But I have to ask so what? I mean your are basing what everyone should do on the fact that doing that had made 24 people who you know satisfied. While I will not claim to be a marriage expert having only been with my husband for 11 years and married for only 8, but I could absolutely find you 12 + couples who have been married for over 20 years who do not need to have one partner lead the other and they are all also happily married but that doesn't prove anything. There are millions of people in the US and billions in the world you cannot really believe that your and the experiences of 12 other couples can possible be representative of all the possible positive marriage options that can exist. I know a couple who swings and they have been blissfully happy in their marriage for 37 or 38 years now I cant remember which anniversary they recently celebrated, but just because it worked for them that doesn't mean I am going to hope online and suggest to everyone that we all need to now follow their way of being married, because obviously that is not going to work for everyone because everyone is different.

Almost everyone here has said that if your marriage and your religion are satisfying to you and your wife then more power to you, but you have never once extended the same respect back. You have called women talentless and all other religions lacking. Despite that everyone has managed to respond in really classy ways most of the folks here have gone out of their way to recognize that your choices could very well be right for you and could very well make you and your wife very happy, but you seem totally uninterested in making that acceptance a two way street. If you are gonna keep going on about how yours way is the 'right' way well I am warning you now, a holier than others attitude will not get you very far in life.

 

[insomniac101]

Very interesting thread; I have enjoyed reading all of the responses.

Kathy, it is very clear to me why you have been happily married for 30 years! It looks like you both have a deep respect for each other, and acknowledge and accept each others differences. Congrats to you and Bill!

Stephanie, you rock! My Mom lives in Fountain Hills, and when I plan a trip out there, I would love to meet you and your S/O for lunch. I share many of your views, and would enjoy meeting and talking with you.

Nicole (the OP), I'm sorry that you are having a rough time. As others have said, this doesn't appear to be about snakes. That may be part of the problem, but what you describe is a power and control issue. I hope you can work things out, but I don't believe that will happen until you both take a serious look at your relationship, and work to compromise on some things. I wish you well in whatever it is you decide to do.

Kathy

 

[Hypancistrus]

I've not waded through the entire thread (and don't have time to) but when I broke up with my ex-GF, who was NOT animal oriented, a very wise lady who apparently wrote a book on cornsnakes or something told me this:

If you are going to have a pair or two of pet snakes in your lifetime, any spouse who loves you should be able to deal with that. But if keeping snakes (or pets of any sort) is likely to be a priority in your life, and something you invest considerable time and expendable income in doing, then you are best off finding someone who shares your passion.

So with my second attempt here, I met someone on this forum who is just as interested in pet keeping (and snake keeping in particular) as I am! It's wonderful to be able to share herp shows, dog training classes, and other pet-related events together, instead of me having to always go it alone. It also is nice because we talk together about our interests instead of having a partner who decrees a snake "no good" because of bizarre things like head shape or color pattern.

So that's just me... I would never have been happy with my ex for many reasons, but her dislike of animals was a big one.

That being said, I kind of agree with Stephanie's initial comment here. The initial post reads like something a child would write about a parent who was anti-pet. If you are an adult in an adult relationship, then your partner should respect that and be able to speak about things and make compromises.

 

[diamondlil]

Any SO I'm going to have any kind of future with would have to accept me, my boys, my friends, my animals. Just as I'd extend them the same courtesy.
That's not about 'leadership', its the things I love that make me who I am.
Not a quizzical 'oh you are soooooooo eccentric but I love you' stance, I'm not an amusing child to be indulged. And I'd never think of a partner in such demeaning terms either.
I couldn't stand the sort of music Pete loved to play. For 6 years I willingly attended his gigs and listened to him practising his music. If he'd been as willing to accept my passions we would perhaps have had a better chance to stay together. Knowing he would never be comfortable with pets, noisy young adults and horse poop meant the writing was always on the wall..........

 

[Hypancistrus]

It also seems likely that since only MEN wrote the Bible, and only MEN translated it from one language to another, there could be some gender and cultural bias built in, whether accidentally or on purpose, through the centuries. I would guess that if you could read the original versions, and somebody was alive who could understand that language as a LIVING language, the understanding of which would partly hinge on the culture and word usage at the time, that many Bible passages might have nuances of meaning very different that what is understood today. I am certainly not a Bible scholar, but I am just using logic and what I know of culture and language to make these guesses.

Indeed an interesting point. I am not super religious, though I consider myself a follower of Jesus' example. That being said, religion itself does fascinate me. I always like to understand WHY people do what they do, and a lot of times the why can be explained via their religious beliefs.

One of the more interesting things to me is the fact that the Church decided which gospels to include in the bible. There are other gospels, written accounts from the followers of Jesus during His lifetime that were not included in the bible but have been discovered in modern times. One of the more interesting was snippets of the gospel of Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene, of course, was a former prostitute who became one of Jesus's greatest followers. Mary played a critical and interesting role during the events of the resurrection and really seemed to set herself apart from Jesus's male followers in her devotion to Him and His sacrifice.

Her gospel was not included in the bible, but snippets of it have been found and translated: http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

The most interesting part, to me, is her recollection of an argument with Andrew, Peter and some other male disciples after the crucifixtion.

 

[wstphal]

In marriage the woman has her responsibilities, and the man has his responsibilities. They compliment eachother. One of the jobs the man has is to responsibly, and lovingly lead his family. What's wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it as long as both spouses are on the same page as to how their marriage is working. If one partner WANTS the other to lead the family, and the other partner is COMFORTABLE doing the leading, that's a great supportive system in which both are meeting each other's needs. It's not for me, but I highly support it for people who want it that way.

 

[Dinah]

Christians are misogynistic, patronizing, and outdated, so why do you feel comfortable falsely characterizing a religion in such an implied negativity way when obviously you have not carefully looked into Buddhism.

Just to make sure in an abidance of caution because we all now how things can go crazy on the internet because of a lack of facial expressions etc. I do not think that Christians are any of those things, I was intending them as an example of false characterizations.

 

[Miqote]

If you are going to have a pair or two of pet snakes in your lifetime, any spouse who loves you should be able to deal with that. But if keeping snakes (or pets of any sort) is likely to be a priority in your life, and something you invest considerable time and expendable income in doing, then you are best off finding someone who shares your passion.

I think this sounds like a GREAT quote. I haven't quite read all of this thread, skipped a bit of the religious stuff. I'm 23 and my husband and I will be married for 3 years in December. To the original poster, I can relate to you in some ways - with my father. We were never allowed to have any pets besides a single cat, and then a single dog, and after much pleading, a hedgehog that we adopted from a friend. I always pined for a cornsnake or another cat after our cat died of old age, and despite hours, days, weeks and YEARS of pleading, educating, and comprimising, the resounding answer was NO. My dad just hated pets. My mom has also begged for another cat but no is always the answer.

My husband loves animals as much as me, although I'm not quite sure he knew how much when we first met. We started volunteering at the animal shelter together, and when we got our apartment we got our first snake. He's never had much experience with reptiles, but he's quickly grown fond of them. I do at least 90% of the pet work, feeding, poop scooping, bathing, etc., but that's fine with me - the pets are my responsibility. He will often ask me to pick up the snakes so he can hold them, and he enjoys feeding/holding the beardie and will pick up beardie poop if he spots it first.

I guess what I'm trying to get around to is, my husband, although maybe not a reptile enthusiast, has really opened his heart to them - I think because he sees the joy animals bring me (and also because we can't get cats right now, and I love cats even more then snakes!). I love having pets and caring for them. As long as they are within our means financially and physically to care for, my husband is fine with any purchases we make.

I totally know some people from work and stuff who hate pets, talking about pets, and are disgusted at the idea of sharing a house with animals. I respect there viewpoint - but I'm sure happy I don't have to live with them! To me it sounds more like there is a control issue happening with your husband then an outright disgust for pets, since he isn't offering any real reasons. I hope somehow you guys can find a way to get both your needs met and be happy!