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Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster...

These are very nonspecific symptoms. Any strong noxious odor could cause them. I am sure the oil is the cause, but it doesn't indicate that the oil is more toxic than other strongly odorous stuff.

I think that is the point. If just the odor can cause such problems, can someone bathing in seawater contaminated with such substances really be all that healthy?

Heck, just reviewing the description of the dispersant and it's effect it has on the oil would certainly give me pause to even put one of my toes into the Gulf of Mexico right now.

Corexit[1] is a product line of solvents primarily used as a dispersant for breaking up oil slicks. It is produced by Nalco Holding Company which is associated with BP and Exxon.[2] Corexit is the most-used dispersant in the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, with COREXIT 9527 having been replaced by COREXIT 9500 after the former was deemed too toxic.[3] Oil that would normally rise to the surface of the water is broken up by the dispersant into small globules that can then remain suspended in the water, potentially forming underwater plumes of oil.[4]

Use
Corexit was used during the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill disaster in Alaska. In 2010, Corexit EC9500A and Corexit EC9527A are being used in unprecedentedly large quantities in the Deepwater Horizon oil spill.[5][6] The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) had pre-approved both forms of Corexit for uses in emergencies such as the Gulf oil spill.[7]
On May 19, 2010 the EPA gave BP 24 hours to choose less toxic alternatives to Corexit, selected from the list of EPA-approved dispersants on the National Contingency Plan Product Schedule,[8] and begin applying them within 72 hours of EPA approval of their choices, but BP refused to change from Corexit, citing safety and availability concerns with alternatives.[9] Sea Brat 4, the only effective alternative that is available in quantities large enough for the spill and is less toxic, was rejected by BP because of the risk that components would break down into nonylphenol, which persists in the environment and is toxic to marine life.[10]

BP had used Corexit EC9500A and Corexit EC9527A by late May, applying 800,000 US gallons (3,000,000 l) total,[11] but more accurate estimates run as high as 1,000,000 US gallons (3,800,000 l) underwater.[12] By late April 2010, Nalco, the maker of Corexit, says that it has been deploying only Corexit 9500.[13]

Composition
Corexit 9527
The proprietary composition is not public, but the manufacturer's own safety data sheet on Corexit EC9527A says the main components are 2-butoxyethanol and a proprietary organic sulfonate with a small concentration of propylene glycol.[14][15]

Corexit 9500
In response to public pressure, the EPA and Nalco released the list of the six ingredients in Corexit 9500, revealing constituents including sorbitan, butanedioic acid, and petroleum distillates.[3] Corexit EC9500A is mainly comprised of hydrotreated light petroleum distillates, propylene glycol and a proprietary organic sulfonate.[16] Environmentalists also pressured Nalco to reveal to the public what concentrations of each chemical are in the product; Nalco considers that information to be a trade secret, but has shared it with the EPA.[17] Propylene glycol is a chemical commonly used as a solvent or moisturizer in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics, and is of relatively low toxicity. An organic sulfonate (or organic sulfonic acid salt) is a synthetic chemical detergent, that acts as a surfactant to emulsify oil and allow its dispersion into water. The identity of the sulfonate used in both forms of Corexit was disclosed to the EPA in June 2010, as dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate.[18]

Toxicity
The relative toxicity of Corexit and other dispersants are difficult to determine due to a scarcity of scientific data.[3] The manufacturer's safety data sheet states "No toxicity studies have been conducted on this product," and later concludes "The potential human hazard is: Low."[19] According to the manufacturer's website, workers applying Corexit should wear breathing protection and work in a ventilated area.[20] Compared with 12 other dispersants listed by the EPA, Corexit 9500 and 9527 are either similarly toxic or 10 to 20 times more toxic.[7] In another preliminary EPA study of eight different dispersants, Corexit 9500 was found to be less toxic to some marine life than other dispersants and to break down within weeks, rather than settling to the bottom of the ocean or collecting in the water.[21] None of the eight products tested are "without toxicity", according to an EPA administrator, and the ecological effect of mixing the dispersants with oil is unknown, as is the toxicity of the breakdown products of the dispersant.[21]

Corexit 9527, considered by the EPA to be an acute health hazard, is stated by its manufacturer to be potentially harmful to red blood cells, the kidneys and the liver, and may irritate eyes and skin.[22][13] The chemical 2-butoxyethanol, found in Corexit 9527, was identified as having caused lasting health problems in workers involved in the cleanup of the Exxon Valdez oil spill.[23] According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics, the use of Corexit during the Exxon Valdez oil spill caused people "respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders".[15] Like 9527, 9500 can cause hemolysis (rupture of blood cells) and may also cause internal bleeding.[4]

According to the EPA, Corexit is more toxic than dispersants made by several competitors and less effective in handling southern Louisiana crude.[24] On May 20, 2010, the EPA ordered BP to look for less toxic alternatives to Corexit, and later ordered BP to stop spraying dispersants, but BP responded that it thought that Corexit was the best alternative and continued to spray it.[3]

Reportedly Corexit may be toxic to marine life and helps keep spilled oil submerged. There is concern that the quantities used in the Gulf will create 'unprecedented underwater damage to organisms.'[25] Nalco spokesman Charlie Pajor said that oil mixed with Corexit is "more toxic to marine life, but less toxic to life along the shore and animals at the surface" because the dispersant allows the oil to stay submerged below the surface of the water.[26] Corexit 9500 causes oil to form into small droplets in the water; fish may be harmed when they eat these droplets.[4] According to its Material safety data sheet, Corexit may also bioaccumulate, remaining in the flesh and building up over time.[27] Thus predators who eat smaller fish with the toxin in their systems may end up with much higher levels in their flesh.[4]

Effectiveness
The oil film will be dispersed in small droplets which intermix with the seawater. The oil is then not only distributed in two dimensions but is dispersed in three.

Corexit EC9500A (formerly called Corexit 9500) was 54.7% effective in handling Louisiana crude, while Corexit EC9527A was 63.4% effective in handling the same oil.[28][29] The EPA lists 12 other types of dispersants as being more effective in dealing with oil in a way that is safe for wildlife.[7] One of those tested was Dispersit, which was 100% effective in dispersing Gulf oil and is less toxic to silverfish and shrimp than Corexit.[30]

Alternatives
UK authorities have an approved list of products which must pass both "sea/beach" and "rocky shore" laboratory toxicity tests, following a review of approval procedures over a decade ago.[31] Corexit did not pass the rocky shore test when submitted for renewal of its inclusion on the list, and was dropped. Although it has been omitted from the approved list since 1998, existing stocks which pre-date the removal may be permitted for use away from rocky shorelines, subject to prior approval.

Alternative dispersants which are approved by the EPA are listed on the National Contingency Plan Product Schedule[8] and rated for their toxicity and effectiveness[32].

References
  1. ^ http://lmrk.org/corexit_9500_uscueg.539287.pdf
  2. ^ By PAUL QUINLAN of Greenwire (2010-05-13). "Less Toxic Dispersants Lose Out in BP Oil Spill Cleanup". NYTimes.com. Retrieved 2010-06-10.
  3. ^ a b c d David Biello (18 June, 2010). "Is Using Dispersants on the BP Gulf Oil Spill Fighting Pollution with Pollution?". scientificamerican.com. Retrieved 19 June 2010.
  4. ^ a b c d Gaelin Rosenwaks (June 5, 2010). "Oil spill's environmental costs". torontosun.com. Toronto Sun. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  5. ^ Juliet Eilperin. "Post Carbon: EPA demands less-toxic dispersant". views.washingtonpost.com. The Washington Post. Retrieved June 26, 2010.
  6. ^ New York Times, "less toxic dispersants lose out in BP oil spill cleanup", May 13, 2010
  7. ^ a b c Mark Guarino (May 15, 2010). "In Gulf oil spill, how helpful – or damaging – are dispersants?". CSMonitor.com. Christian Science Monitor. Retrieved 26 June 2010.
  8. ^ a b "National Contingency Plan Product Schedule". Environmental Protection Agency. 2010-05-13. Retrieved 2010-05-21.
  9. ^ "Dispersant Monitoring and Assessment Directive – Addendum". Environmental Protection Agency. 2010-05-20.
  10. ^ Jamie Anderson (May 23, 2010). "BP to persist with Corexit 9500 dispersant". themoneytimes.com. The Money Times. Retrieved June 26, 2010.
  11. ^ Paul Quinlan (2010-05-24). "Secret Formulas, Data Shortages Fuel Arguments Over Dispersants Used for Gulf Spill". New York Times. Retrieved 2010-05-24.
  12. ^ Juliet Eilperin (2010-05-20). "Post Carbon: EPA demands less-toxic dispersant". Washington Post. Retrieved 2010-05-20.
  13. ^ a b Shelley DuBois (Jun. 15, 2010). "Company profile of NALCO, maker of Corexit for BP oil spill". cnn.com. Fortune. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  14. ^ "Safety Data Sheet Product Corexit® EC9527A". Retrieved 2010-05-16.
  15. ^ a b "Chemicals Meant To Break Up BP Oil Spill Present New Environmental Concerns". ProPublica. Retrieved 2010-05-07.
  16. ^ "Safety Data Sheet Product Corexit® EC9500A". Nalco. p. 1. Retrieved 2010-05-16.
  17. ^ Anne Mulkern (June 25, 2010). "Maker of Controversial Dispersant Used in Gulf Oil Spill Hires Top Lobbyists". nytimes.com. New York Times. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  18. ^ Schor, Elana (2010-6-09). "Ingredients of Controversial Dispersants Used on Gulf Spill Are Secrets No More". The New York Times.
  19. ^ "Safety Data Sheet Product Corexit® EC9500A". Nalco. pp. 5–6. Retrieved June 11, 2010.
  20. ^ Sanjay Gupta (June 10,2010). "Anderson Cooper 360: Blog Archive - How will the oil spill affect my health?". cnn.com. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  21. ^ a b CNN Wire Staff (June 30, 2010). "Dispersants appear to break up in Gulf, EPA says". CNN.com. CNN. Retrieved July 1, 2010.
  22. ^ "Material Safety Data Sheet: Corexit EC9527A". NALCO. May 11, 2010. Retrieved May 30, 2010. "may cause injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidney or the liver"
  23. ^ Elana Schor (June 9, 2010). "Ingredients of Controversial Dispersants Used on Gulf Spill Are Secrets No More". nytimes.com. New York Times. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  24. ^ "Less toxic dispersants lose out in bp oil spill cleanup", The New York Times, May 13, 2010
  25. ^ Dugan, Emily (May 30, 2010). "Oil spill creates huge undersea 'dead zones'". The Independent. Retrieved May 30, 2010.
  26. ^ "Nalco dispersant makes oil more toxic to marine life, group says". dailyherald.com. Daily Herald. June 15, 2010. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  27. ^ Bill Riales (June 18, 2010). "BP Dispersant Getting Independent Lab Test". wkrg.com. WKRG News 5. Retrieved June 25, 2010.
  28. ^ Environmental Protection Agency, NCP Product Schedule, Accessed May 16, 2010
  29. ^ Environmental Protection Agency, NCP Product Schedule, Accessed May 16, 2010
  30. ^ Brandon Keim (May 5, 2010). "Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative". wired.com. Wired Science. Retrieved June 26, 2010.
  31. ^ Oil spill treatment products approved for use in the United Kingdom. Marine Management Organisation. May 18, 2010. Retrieved June 13, 2010.
  32. ^ "National Contingency Plan Product Schedule Toxicity and Effectiveness Summaries". Environmental Protection Agency. May 13, 2010. Retrieved May 21, 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit
 
I think that is the point. If just the odor can cause such problems, can someone bathing in seawater contaminated with such substances really be all that healthy?

Oh, believe me, I don't recommend swimming in it. Getting a mouthful of oil would NOT be good. If the light volatiles haven't evaporated off, getting it on your skin would NOT be good. It's a terrible situation. I was only getting at the idea that they haven't YET seen a specific oil-exposure-poisoning toxidrome, just the nonspecific horribles that people experience when exposed to nasty smelling chemicals of many types.

The thing that worries me somewhat, on the topic of nasty smelling chemicals, is that some percentage of the population, when intensively exposed to such, develop a syndrome where almost any artificial smelling odor of any sort provokes intense symptoms. These people end up diagnosing themselves with "multiple chemical sensitivies" and becoming housebound, throwing out belongings that seem to smell like anything artificial because any artificial odor of any sort intensifies their suffering. It's a terrible situation for them, and nobody understands what has gone wrong in their nervous system but clearly something has. We could be looking at an epidemic of "MCS" coming on the heels of this spill.
 
Yeah, I think this situation in Pensacola pretty much proves my concern when I cancelled the beach house rental that Connie and I had planned on this Fall on Sanibel Island. The rental people tried to talk us out of it, claiming that if during our stay the city of Sanibel closed the beach, then we would get a refund even at that late date. I declined, stating that I completely distrusted any government official to have my health and welfare in their best interests if it directly conflicted with their own financial well being, or that of their constituents (ie: voters).

As can be seen from the situation in Pensacola, it appears that people would have had to be dying in droves on the beaches for them to official close that beach on the Fourth of July weekend and bear the wrath of the local tourist industry. :rolleyes:

With that being said, ask me if I trust BP or the federal government concerning what they say about this situation...... :nope:
 
You would think items of interest would be easier to find on YouTube, wouldn't you?

 
Wow Rich, I had no clue that this had happened before. From the same company no less. You would think (common sense anyone?) they would learn from history. How long did it take you to dig up this video on youtube? It sounds like it was pretty buried.
 
Wow Rich, I had no clue that this had happened before. From the same company no less. You would think (common sense anyone?) they would learn from history. How long did it take you to dig up this video on youtube? It sounds like it was pretty buried.

The obvious implication of this is that it has happened before, it is happening now, and it WILL happen again.

How long before mankind creates a catastrophe that we just cannot fix? Is anyone really prepared to have to accept the likelihood of an oil gusher despoiling the oceans of this planet for as long as it takes to empty the underground oil reservoir? Perhaps DECADES? What do you think THAT would do to our world?

I found that video on another site that I found that leans a LOT to the side of pure delusional paranoia and disfunctional whackiness.... http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/172/pg1/srtpages

But there are still some nuggets there if you don't mind the mud in your eyes most of the time.... Plus I REALLY don't like the forum script they are using....
 
$40,000 fine for getting near oil cleanup operations?

Anyone heard about this and have a link to the legislation that created this "rule"



What is interesting is that it is called a "rule", and not a "law". As far as I know, the coast guard cannot make up laws on the fly, and certainly some "fresh out of the butt" rule does not have the force of law in this country. At least it hasn't in the past.
 
I dont even know what to say to this one. I understand needing to keep workers and media safe. But this is getting out of hand and going about it the wrong way. These people should know if you make "rules" blocking media then it ill only make matters much worse than if the media was there and filmed a mistake that was made public.
 
Obama for offshore drilling in Brazil

Today on a segment of the "Glen Beck Show" on FOX (Fox Cable News) was the following:


"Today, even though President Obama is against off-shore drilling for our country, he signed an executive order to loan 2 Billion of our taxpayers dollars to a Brazilian Oil Exploration Company (which is the 8th largest company in the entire world) to drill for oil off the coast of Brazil ! The oil that comes from this operation is for the sole purpose and use of China and NOT THE USA ! Now here's the real clincher...the Chinese government is under contract to purchase all the oil that this oil field will produce, which is hundreds of millions of barrels of oil"..

We have absolutely no gain from this transaction whatsoever!

Wait, it gets more interesting.

Guess who is the largest individual stockholder of this Brazilian Oil Company and who would benefit most from this? It is American BILLIONAIRE, George Soros, who was one of President Obama's most generous financial supporter during his campaign.

If you are able to connect the dots and follow the money, you are probably as upset as I am. Not a word of this transaction was broadcast on any of the other news networks!



Below is the Wall street Journal article to confirm this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html
 
Obama for offshore drilling in Brazil

Today on a segment of the "Glen Beck Show" on FOX (Fox Cable News) was the following:


"Today, even though President Obama is against off-shore drilling for our country, he signed an executive order to loan 2 Billion of our taxpayers dollars to a Brazilian Oil Exploration Company (which is the 8th largest company in the entire world) to drill for oil off the coast of Brazil ! The oil that comes from this operation is for the sole purpose and use of China and NOT THE USA ! Now here's the real clincher...the Chinese government is under contract to purchase all the oil that this oil field will produce, which is hundreds of millions of barrels of oil"..

We have absolutely no gain from this transaction whatsoever!

Wait, it gets more interesting.

Guess who is the largest individual stockholder of this Brazilian Oil Company and who would benefit most from this? It is American BILLIONAIRE, George Soros, who was one of President Obama's most generous financial supporter during his campaign.

If you are able to connect the dots and follow the money, you are probably as upset as I am. Not a word of this transaction was broadcast on any of the other news networks!



Below is the Wall street Journal article to confirm this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html
I am still "hoping for change" but alas we keep getting the same ole politico towing of the rope. :shrugs:
 
I am still "hoping for change" but alas we keep getting the same ole politico towing of the rope. :shrugs:

Sounds to me that the "change" spoken of was referencing how much change ($$) that could be put into particular people's pockets. You have to wonder how much this sort of "change" is behind and guiding everything about this oil gusher.
 
Anyone heard about this and have a link to the legislation that created this "rule".

I would bet it is a "safety" rule derived form their authority to regulate safety on the seas, but it is a perfect example of what I was saying way earlier about how people who live along the water see this sort of thing happen all the time. People in other parts of the country look at this and say this is unimaginable that peoples rights to report or just use the public waters would be suspended (and so they don't believe us and they think we are crazy). But those of us who live near the water and with hurricanes know that as soon as the coast or the ocean or a hurricane is involved the people who get sent in to 'rescue' us always seem to forget that this is the USA with all of the according rights and privileges still in effect. When I was about 15 we were stopped by marine patrol and questioned about our life jackets. The officer did not believe that I weighed as much as I reported to him, and he ordered me off of my fathers boat and onto his boat despite my fathers objections so that he could weigh me (and it turned out I was 2 pounds heavier even than we had said). My father had agreed to allow me to be weighed but he did not want me to leave our boat, he offered to the marine officer that he would be welcome on our vessel with his scale, but the officer would not move his scale and then ordered me directly. I know that sounds minor but think about it for a second that is a law enforcement officer essentially taking custody of me with nothing more to go on than I didn't look like I weighed enough. By ordering me off the boat against my fathers wishes he was assuming liability for me. Think about how broke the state would be if something had happened to me. But more than that think about how you would feel if a law enforcement officer just started ordering your kids around against your wishes without any kind of cause.

The coast guard is always seen as being kind because they will come out and rescue your behind if you do something stupid, but people the coast guard is a division of the armed services. Yes our troops have been deployed to provide aid in disaster situations many times but far more often they end up being deployed as enforcers and they don't have the same kind of training that law enforcement has (although theoretically marine patrol does and he handled himself very poorly). A police officer is trained to deal with citizen and criminals, but a solider is trained to deal with enemies, and terrorists. We need to have both kinds of folks on our side, but I just have never considered using military enforcers against citizens (we are not enemies or terrorists) to be the most appropriate way to do things. I'm just saying when the tanks where being driven up and down neighborhood streets in Homestead after Andrew, those folks weren't driving around to give out water or to check on you (they didn't pop their head out ever and carried no extra supplies to hand out), they where there for only one reason to scare the bejebus out of you so that you would not even consider violating curfew. I'm just saying tanks to enforce a curfew on adults, super dome concentration camps, and now the coast guard blocking access (of people who have been there for generations) to the ocean are all a unacceptable in the USA....I guess I am just an idealist:shrugs:.
 
Obama for offshore drilling in Brazil

Today on a segment of the "Glen Beck Show" on FOX (Fox Cable News) was the following:


"Today, even though President Obama is against off-shore drilling for our country, he signed an executive order to loan 2 Billion of our taxpayers dollars to a Brazilian Oil Exploration Company (which is the 8th largest company in the entire world) to drill for oil off the coast of Brazil ! The oil that comes from this operation is for the sole purpose and use of China and NOT THE USA ! Now here's the real clincher...the Chinese government is under contract to purchase all the oil that this oil field will produce, which is hundreds of millions of barrels of oil"..

We have absolutely no gain from this transaction whatsoever!

Wait, it gets more interesting.

Guess who is the largest individual stockholder of this Brazilian Oil Company and who would benefit most from this? It is American BILLIONAIRE, George Soros, who was one of President Obama's most generous financial supporter during his campaign.

If you are able to connect the dots and follow the money, you are probably as upset as I am. Not a word of this transaction was broadcast on any of the other news networks!



Below is the Wall street Journal article to confirm this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

I am not an Obama supporter AT ALL, seriously, I think he is destroying this country from the inside out (if you are supporter, flame away, I am not going to argue with you). One more time for clarity, I have lost all respect for the office of the president since he was elected. I gave him a fair shake and opportunity but he has failed miserably at everything he has been involved in or should we say NOT involved in.

Now that the disclaimer is over, in all fairness, that article and support was proposed in the summer of 2009, prior to the current oil spill and I haven't seen proof that this "project" was carried out. Either way, Obama is still a solid colored light on the blinking strand of Christmas lights, but I wanted to point out that this deal may have been cancelled.

dc
 
Camby;1153448 I have lost all respect for the office of the president since he was elected. I gave him a fair shake and opportunity but he has failed miserably at everything he has been involved in or should we say NOT involved in.[/QUOTE said:
It does seem unfair to have only recently lost respect for the office of the President. I am not saying Obama is super or anything even close to that, but lets be fair this is an office that has long ago been disgraced. I am still young enough to only remember a few presidents but you have to go all the way back to George Bush senior to even find one president that at the very least didn't totally make a fool out of himself and all of us. Little George was a bonehead who was plenty non responsive, and Bill was a womanizing jerk. While I am not here to defend Obama I think in the name of fairness we should admit that while he is being a disgrace he is certainly not the only reason that the Presidency is a disgrace. Lets be fair here our presidency has a long history of boneheads who act disgracefully, this is not new to this administration. If you don't respect boneheads then you should have lost respect for the presidency long ago, not just recently. Going back into Presidents that I can't personally remember but whose exploits are common knowledge we have Nixon to put in the disgraceful column and lets not forget about Mr. Kennedy traipsing around our white house with Marilyn, and he is like a hero figure to a lot of people. I know there are more examples of Bonehead Presidents from history to share, but I am still pre coffee so this will have to due as examples. I am not saying you have to like Obama I am just saying that if you are really being fair then you would have lost respect for the office a long time ago.

"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." - Douglas Adams 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
 
Lets be fair here our presidency has a long history of boneheads who act disgracefully, this is not new to this administration.

Like I said, I am not here to defend or argue any point about the president, I learned a while back that all it does is get my blood boiling at people on here and they are to far away to slap, lol.

That said, I will agree with everything you said, but in regards to the portion I have quoted, Obama seems to exceed in making our entire nation look foolish and weak.


dc
 
That said, I will agree with everything you said, but in regards to the portion I have quoted, Obama seems to exceed in making our entire nation look foolish and weak.


dc

I guess you are just more forgiving than me. I don't care if someone is a little bit of a bonehead or a big bonehead, they are both unacceptable in terms of being my leader. I swear I was born during the wrong era. I am a pitchfork wielding, kick the bums out kind of lady and now a days people think you are crazy for that sort of thing :shrugs:LOL
 
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