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Legitimate Reason Wanted
- Thread starter Stormy
- Start date
army_greywolf
New member
Ok, yanno what, we feed live because some of my snakes are wild caught or localized subspecies. And I find most of my ball pythons respond better and are calmer overall if they are fed a regular live meal. ALL OUR FEEDINGS are supervised, and frankly, live feeding is convenient to us simply because I work alot of hours, Stormy is in school full time, and maintaining a frozen collection of various sizes is just more time consuming to us with our current cost window than picking and choosing live stock on the spot. I always have a prey item that is the appropriate size can be picked up checked over and fed within a minute.
With that said, yes, most of our snakes will eat f/t no problem, some came from Doc, others from KJ, but I have great success with live, in the particulars with which I handle, care for and monitor both the feeding stock and the snakes. To me it feels safer regardless of whether it is, to be able to control the habitat, health and cleanliness of my feeding stock so that is a damn good reason for me to feed live.
And of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you won't find anything negative about it from us, other than the squeeking attracting my needy feeders and making them a little more, anticipative.
With that said, yes, most of our snakes will eat f/t no problem, some came from Doc, others from KJ, but I have great success with live, in the particulars with which I handle, care for and monitor both the feeding stock and the snakes. To me it feels safer regardless of whether it is, to be able to control the habitat, health and cleanliness of my feeding stock so that is a damn good reason for me to feed live.
And of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you won't find anything negative about it from us, other than the squeeking attracting my needy feeders and making them a little more, anticipative.
Fatman608
I'm Hungry
I would rather go the total safer way then have one of my snakes torn up by a mouse. However, you do own your snakes and if your time is more important than your snakes getting bit it is up to you and Stormy.
Love the Fatman
P.S. I guess some people like the sound of a mouse or rat being killed by a snake.
ziggybond_007
Team Laura
I once had to feed my ball python live because he had been fed fresh killed at the breeder's and didn't want anything to do with f/t. Not only did I get torn up by the mouse, he ended up getting bitten on the top of his head. After that I vowed that I'd let him starve to death before offering live again. He still bears the mark and that was two years ago...
As for breeding your own rodents, you can euthanize them yourself and it will still be the same as raising them, without the risk to your snake. I'm busy all the time as well, with school full time and a part time job, and I feed f/t, and it's way less time consuming and even cheaper than raising my own. Granted, my colony of asfs hasn't quite gotten past the breeding adults, and I will feed live pinks to my hatchlings, but what threat does a two, three day old pink pose?
But again, to each his own, there are risks in everything. They're your snakes.
Also, I'm pretty sure snakes can't hear the mouse screaming. My butter motley associates me in my closet with food, so she comes out and gets excited thinking dinner's on its way. Which I generally reinforce because she's so small for a yearling, so I'll toss her an extra fuzzy. Seeing as they don't have ears, they may feel the vibrations, but during feeding time, there's a lot going on.
As for breeding your own rodents, you can euthanize them yourself and it will still be the same as raising them, without the risk to your snake. I'm busy all the time as well, with school full time and a part time job, and I feed f/t, and it's way less time consuming and even cheaper than raising my own. Granted, my colony of asfs hasn't quite gotten past the breeding adults, and I will feed live pinks to my hatchlings, but what threat does a two, three day old pink pose?
But again, to each his own, there are risks in everything. They're your snakes.
Also, I'm pretty sure snakes can't hear the mouse screaming. My butter motley associates me in my closet with food, so she comes out and gets excited thinking dinner's on its way. Which I generally reinforce because she's so small for a yearling, so I'll toss her an extra fuzzy. Seeing as they don't have ears, they may feel the vibrations, but during feeding time, there's a lot going on.
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Lolo
Surrounded by snakes
This is why I often say "don't get a snake if you can't handle the possibility of feeding live." If all of your snakes take f/t every time you offer, lucky you... but the reality is that you could get a stubborn one, especially if you keep pythons, and might then have to do a live feeding. When I hear of people not offering live after months of f/t refusals, I honestly think that is crazy. Sorry if that's harsh, but is it right to starve a snake because YOU have a problem with live feedings?
Snakes eat live prey in the wild, whether or not that's the safest option, and sometimes captives will simply not adjust to our frozen preferences.That being said, I think MY preference would be f/t... it's cheaper (when you buy in bulk - especially since I split shipping with another member), saves the pet store trip or breeding hassles, safer for the snakes, and everything else people have mentioned. But as a python keeper too, it unfortunately isn't a viable option with my collection. Trust me, I've tried to convert the BPs, and ended up wasting more than was eaten.
So I've just been doing both for the last 2 years, keeping f/t on-hand for the colubrids & non-picky pythons, and making pet store visits weekly for the rest. Luckily I have a good local live supplier, who even gives a discount to her regular customers. This works fine for me & my collection, so it does get annoying to be "bashed" by other snake owners for feeding live.
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Lolo
Surrounded by snakes
Maybe some people do, but I certainly do NOT... especially with the rat feedings (I have one who refuses mice), to the point where I usually step out during the strike. I guess you think live feeders get some weird pleasure out of it, but you are sorely mistaken. Did you not realize snakes eat live prey when you got them?? I didn't even know f/t was an option at first, so boy was I surprised to see the attitude on here!
Outcast
ATPSS
Maybe this thread wouldn't be so full of personal attacks if the Title would have been thought through a little better. Asking someone for a Legitimate reason, then saying that others reasons are alright but not what you are looking for, is kinda uncalled for. Everyone has a legitimate reason as to why they feed F/T or Live or whatever, just because someone else doesn't agree with the reason, doesn't mean it isn't legitimate for them.
I personally do not feed live unless I have too. Like my Cali King. He was a non feeder when I got him. Fed him a live pink and he ate no problem. This week I fed him a F/T pink and he started to eat it, got it half way in his mouth and spit it out. I am now waiting a little while before getting him a smaller live pink. I have a feeling that he will be one of my only live feeders for a while. Hopefully I can get my desert glossy to eat F/T, to me it is much easier than Live. and I do not have to hear the death scream. But, If I have to I will feed live. The scream bothers my wife a lot more than it bothers me.
I personally do not feed live unless I have too. Like my Cali King. He was a non feeder when I got him. Fed him a live pink and he ate no problem. This week I fed him a F/T pink and he started to eat it, got it half way in his mouth and spit it out. I am now waiting a little while before getting him a smaller live pink. I have a feeling that he will be one of my only live feeders for a while. Hopefully I can get my desert glossy to eat F/T, to me it is much easier than Live. and I do not have to hear the death scream. But, If I have to I will feed live. The scream bothers my wife a lot more than it bothers me.
alan
Guest
You left out a category on the poll. Fresh-killed?
My snake came to me eating live prey. After reading a little bit here I didn't think it was such a good idea. There's no way you can be sure that you can stop a mouse bite every time. I wasn't worried about her body too much, more an eye bite, but infection elsewhere is always possible.
I have a pet shop about two blocks from me. It's very convenient to stop on my way home and pick up a mouse. Less convenient is keeping frozen mice in my very skinny, very full freezer and thawing one out. I also know for a fact that the mice I feed my snake are killed very quickly with (I hope) the least suffering I can possibly give them.
My snake came to me eating live prey. After reading a little bit here I didn't think it was such a good idea. There's no way you can be sure that you can stop a mouse bite every time. I wasn't worried about her body too much, more an eye bite, but infection elsewhere is always possible.
I have a pet shop about two blocks from me. It's very convenient to stop on my way home and pick up a mouse. Less convenient is keeping frozen mice in my very skinny, very full freezer and thawing one out. I also know for a fact that the mice I feed my snake are killed very quickly with (I hope) the least suffering I can possibly give them.
SHAKSNAKE
The crappy keeper!
hey stormy!
another pro!
you forgot to mention the snake gets a pretty good workout and flex's those muscles while on live too! with mice upgrades it gets stronger. people say if you move the dead mouse around it can contrict that one too but lets face it, there's no comparison to a live figgity mouse over a dead lifeless one thats being pulled with twezers! lol
another pro!
you forgot to mention the snake gets a pretty good workout and flex's those muscles while on live too! with mice upgrades it gets stronger. people say if you move the dead mouse around it can contrict that one too but lets face it, there's no comparison to a live figgity mouse over a dead lifeless one thats being pulled with twezers! lol
VickyChaiTea
Snake enthusiast
Shakesnake, that's not a very good argument. A snake can get plenty of exercise in other ways that, oh I don't know... DON'T put it's life in danger? Like being handled and let out of the cage for a while? That works perfectly fine.
As far as I can tell, if you feed live when your snake takes prekilled/frozen/thawed... you are purposefully, unnecessarily, endangering the life of your pet. There IS not good excuse for that. Hearing that it's more convenient is just heart breaking. Someone would choose something that's more convenient over the life of their snake?
And you cannot tell me that it DOESN'T put your snakes life at risk. It does, and everybody knows it. But some people just don't care.
As far as I can tell, if you feed live when your snake takes prekilled/frozen/thawed... you are purposefully, unnecessarily, endangering the life of your pet. There IS not good excuse for that. Hearing that it's more convenient is just heart breaking. Someone would choose something that's more convenient over the life of their snake?
And you cannot tell me that it DOESN'T put your snakes life at risk. It does, and everybody knows it. But some people just don't care.
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
^^^^^ What SHE said!!
Anyone who chooses convenience over the safety of their animal is not much of a keeper imo......MY animals deserve better than that, and get it!
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
Actual rescue from the Humane Society. A corn snake that survived a rodent attack. This snake was about 5 years old.
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
Now here is the flip side.
I know a big breeder out here who has hundreds of ball pythons, not 4 or 20 but Hundreds.
He feeds live only. Its cost effective. He raises and breeds his own rodents.
The difference is, how he has his hides. they have the holes on the top of them. No side holes for the rodent to climb into. So when he tosses in the rodent, he then leaves them be, the rodent will hide on the side of the hide and not go inside. The snake comes out and bam.
The reason for this is if you are feeding 400 snakes a day and 250 do not eat, you have wasted all those rodents and lost money.
He will go by the cages and then collect the un eaten live rodents and use them again. These animals are not sitting in the cage over night or for days. They are collected after a few hours.
Trust me, when you have ball pythons worth Thousands of dollars, you dont let them just sit there and get chewed on.
I know a big breeder out here who has hundreds of ball pythons, not 4 or 20 but Hundreds.
He feeds live only. Its cost effective. He raises and breeds his own rodents.
The difference is, how he has his hides. they have the holes on the top of them. No side holes for the rodent to climb into. So when he tosses in the rodent, he then leaves them be, the rodent will hide on the side of the hide and not go inside. The snake comes out and bam.
The reason for this is if you are feeding 400 snakes a day and 250 do not eat, you have wasted all those rodents and lost money.
He will go by the cages and then collect the un eaten live rodents and use them again. These animals are not sitting in the cage over night or for days. They are collected after a few hours.
Trust me, when you have ball pythons worth Thousands of dollars, you dont let them just sit there and get chewed on.
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
Personally now if you have a large business like my friend or like Rich had, live is ok. It does help save money in the long run especially if you go through and check on those animals and make sure the hides are in the right places. This is your lively hood, you are going to make sure its working for you.
But for most of us, frozen thawed is fine. Hell, i have many snakes here and I do not feed live. I refuse to feed live. Its my personal choice.
But as biology goes, its better for the animal is typically hogwash. Seriously, most of those animals are over weight and forced to breed to early. So please dont give me its healthier.
Typically those who feed are people who enjoy seeing the animal kill another. I am not sure why people enjoy this spectator sport. Its like watching pit bulls fight, or cock fights. People are drawn to it. In the home people by large predatory fish, typically not for the beauty but to feed them gold fish. Its to say I own a predator. Its typically for the wrong reasons.
Oh and if you want a predator, one of the most deadly our planet has seen, Own a house cat.
But for most of us, frozen thawed is fine. Hell, i have many snakes here and I do not feed live. I refuse to feed live. Its my personal choice.
But as biology goes, its better for the animal is typically hogwash. Seriously, most of those animals are over weight and forced to breed to early. So please dont give me its healthier.
Typically those who feed are people who enjoy seeing the animal kill another. I am not sure why people enjoy this spectator sport. Its like watching pit bulls fight, or cock fights. People are drawn to it. In the home people by large predatory fish, typically not for the beauty but to feed them gold fish. Its to say I own a predator. Its typically for the wrong reasons.
Oh and if you want a predator, one of the most deadly our planet has seen, Own a house cat.
SHAKSNAKE
The crappy keeper!
you do your way.. i do mine.. everyone's happy! no one needs to be here justifing why they feed live vs f/t. this is a forum for all corn snake owners. i trust that everyone is responsible enough to not kill their animal or put it into grave danger. and i also trust they everyone has a good reason why they feed their snake the way they do. lets respect eachothers decisions. good points on both, i just see the f/t tend to go for the low blows and saying its a character flaw for those who feed live. my snake loves his live food, if i ever see that he's uncomfortable it i'll switch it. end of story.
Kali
lost cause
This is such a shame. Finally there was a thread about live vs F/T that remained quite civil, and (not sure this expression exists in english, but I think you get the meaning) Shaksnake you threw the stick in the henhouse. That badly thought out reply that can hardly count as a pro (even for live feeders) really sounds trollish to me.
SHAKSNAKE
The crappy keeper!
This is such a shame. Finally there was a thread about live vs F/T that remained quite civil, and (not sure this expression exists in english, but I think you get the meaning) Shaksnake you threw the stick in the henhouse. That badly thought out reply that can hardly count as a pro (even for live feeders) really sounds trollish to me.
trollish? i'm not online enouch to even know what that means. your gonna have to fill me in on this troll thing that fatman also have said to me. anyway, i dont care how sensitive people get about feeding live, as long as its legal im doing it! make me out to whatever you want, im a regular person. i actually aspire to be a vet so sorry if i'm not that malicious creature that loves watching mice die lol
snakes in the wild eat live mice. i feed my captive snake live mice. is there a problem here? i don't see one.
Outcast
ATPSS
We all need to take a step back and think. The people who feed F/T, decide to feed that way because they do not want to see something horrible happen to their snake, like what happened to the one Tricksterpup has pictures of. The ones who feed live, do so for their own reasons, whether it is to save money or whatever their reasons. There are some people who will listen to reason and look at pictures and say, "OMG I didnt know that could happen" those tend to try to switch to F/T, I know I was one of them. Then you have the people that do not think it can happen to their animal until it does, they are then remorseful and ask for help, because their snakes bites just got infected. They learn the lesson the hard way.. But, then you have the people who feed live and never have a problem, they are the lucky ones.
I say, to each his own. We can try to educate people on the benefits of F/T, but if they are unwilling to listen, and look at the proof, then there is no point in harping on the subject every time it comes up. It is the same thing with co-habitation. I was guilty of it until I saw what can come of it. There are people who do it, and people who don't. Just try to educate people on the downfalls of it and if they want to listen they will, if they do not want to listen they won't. What happens to the snake is their problem, no matter how much you try to help, If they do not want it, they will not accept it.
I say, to each his own. We can try to educate people on the benefits of F/T, but if they are unwilling to listen, and look at the proof, then there is no point in harping on the subject every time it comes up. It is the same thing with co-habitation. I was guilty of it until I saw what can come of it. There are people who do it, and people who don't. Just try to educate people on the downfalls of it and if they want to listen they will, if they do not want to listen they won't. What happens to the snake is their problem, no matter how much you try to help, If they do not want it, they will not accept it.
Outcast
ATPSS
A troll is someone who posts things in order to start arguments and general discontent. At least that is my extent of knowledge on the troll subject.