2 snakes, 1 cage?

[starsevol]

Well considering that snakes are solitary animals by nature and don't travel in herds, I believe that forcing them to live together is cruel.

 

[patches152]

I've seen the pictures, thanks. Don't get me wrong, its horrible. But its also very rare. Bottom line is that as long as you use common sense, there's not much to worry about with owning snakes. If you want to be safe, don't house em together. But, once they're longer than 12" I don't anticipate any issues. Like I said, plenty of room and feed em separately and should be no big deal. To each their own. I personally like housing together, especially if they're different colors. It just looks cool.


In summary, babies are capable of cannibalism. Don't house two snakes of two different sizes. Don't feed snakes in the same tank. DO offer plenty of room and multiple hides if you house two similar sized snakes.

With the two snakes being varying sizes (unless your new snake is the same size as the one you have now) it seems to be kind of a non-issue for awhile until the new snake grows and catches up size.

Also, you'll need a quarantine period before housing them in the same room or tank.

 

[starsevol]

I've seen the pictures, thanks. Don't get me wrong, its horrible. But its also very rare. Bottom line is that as long as you use common sense, there's not much to worry about with owning snakes. If you want to be safe, don't house em together. But, once they're longer than 12" I don't anticipate any issues. Like I said, plenty of room and feed em separately and should be no big deal. To each their own. I personally like housing together, especially if they're different colors. It just looks cool.


In summary, babies are capable of cannibalism. Don't house two snakes of two different sizes. Don't feed snakes in the same tank. DO offer plenty of room and multiple hides if you house two similar sized snakes.

With the two snakes being varying sizes (unless your new snake is the same size as the one you have now) it seems to be kind of a non-issue for awhile until the new snake grows and catches up size.

Also, you'll need a quarantine period before housing them in the same room or tank.

Adult snakes get stressed when forced together.
During the breeding season a female housed with a male is constantly harassed.
If one snake gets sick, both are sick.
Housing them together because "you think they look cool" is a horrible reason. It means that their well being doesnt really matter to you.
When I see snakes travelling in groups, I will change my mind, but snakes are not designed to live togther. Again, it is animal cruelty.

 

[airenlow]

 

[susang]

I've seen the pictures, thanks. Don't get me wrong, its horrible. But its also very rare. Bottom line is that as long as you use common sense, there's not much to worry about with owning snakes. If you want to be safe, don't house em together. But, once they're longer than 12" I don't anticipate any issues. Like I said, plenty of room and feed em separately and should be no big deal. To each their own. I personally like housing together, especially if they're different colors. It just looks cool.


In summary, babies are capable of cannibalism. Don't house two snakes of two different sizes. Don't feed snakes in the same tank. DO offer plenty of room and multiple hides if you house two similar sized snakes.

With the two snakes being varying sizes (unless your new snake is the same size as the one you have now) it seems to be kind of a non-issue for awhile until the new snake grows and catches up size.

Also, you'll need a quarantine period before housing them in the same room or tank.

Well I guess my common sense went out the door.
You have yet to address the issue of unwanted eggs.
Why would you put two snakes together in same viv? How big is this viv with multiple hides and water and heat...
Sorry just don't get it.

 

[patches152]

Adult snakes get stressed when forced together.
During the breeding season a female housed with a male is constantly harassed.
If one snake gets sick, both are sick.
Housing them together because "you think they look cool" is a horrible reason. It means that their well being doesnt really matter to you.
When I see snakes travelling in groups, I will change my mind, but snakes are not designed to live togther. Again, it is animal cruelty.

It's not your place to judge me or my motivations. Animal cruelty is having 10 snakes kept in a rack full of shoe box sized plastic bins with tissue paper as bedding. If you don't want to house two snakes together, great. Don't do it. But you and the rest of these bleeding hearts aren't gonna make my decisions for me. How about doing your own research and not just parrot repeating everything you read on the internet. Show me your herpetology degree and maybe I'll put a little more stock in what you have to say in an anonymous internet forum.

OP, just use common sense. That's all you need to raise a snake.

 

[airenlow]

Show me your herpetology degree and maybe I'll put a little more stock in what you have to say in an anonymous internet forum.

Wildlife management degree with an emphasis in herps. I'm the tall kid with the beard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovQrRRxhruk

 

[starsevol]

It's not your place to judge me or my motivations. Animal cruelty is having 10 snakes kept in a rack full of shoe box sized plastic bins with tissue paper as bedding. If you don't want to house two snakes together, great. Don't do it. But you and the rest of these bleeding hearts aren't gonna make my decisions for me. How about doing your own research and not just parrot repeating everything you read on the internet. Show me your herpetology degree and maybe I'll put a little more stock in what you have to say in an anonymous internet forum.

OP, just use common sense. That's all you need to raise a snake.

Common sense says that animals that are SOLITARY in nature need to be SOLITARY in captivity.
Get it?
Do my own research? Are you KIDDING me?? I've been keeping snakes since 1995. That doesn't make me an expert, but I'm no newbie either.

And yes, I will judge you. I consider what you do cruel, it is against a snake's nature to be co habbed.

You say cannabalism is rare so it's not worth worrying about. Guess what, cannabalism is EVEN RARER when you don't co hab!
Why risk the life, health and well being of any animal in your care?

 

[starsevol]

Wildlife management degree with an emphasis in herps. I'm the tall kid with the beard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovQrRRxhruk

Hey Josh, don't see much of you til the end!!
Yup, you're still tall!!
Going to Daytona?

Gotta love a kid who puts his animals well being second place to "oh but they look so cool together".

 

[patches152]

When I see snakes travelling in groups, I will change my mind, but snakes are not designed to live togther. Again, it is animal cruelty.

Wildlife management degree with an emphasis in herps. I'm the tall kid with the beard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovQrRRxhruk

what is the rate of adult cannibalism? how much space does an adult corn snake require to survive in the wild, and how would you duplicate that environment in a captive situation?

Do my own research? Are you KIDDING me?? I've been keeping snakes since 1995. That doesn't make me an expert, but I'm no newbie either.

And yes, I will judge you. I consider what you do cruel, it is against a snake's nature to be co habbed.

You say cannabalism is rare so it's not worth worrying about. Guess what, cannabalism is EVEN RARER when you don't co hab!
Why risk the life, health and well being of any animal in your care?

i said that the risk of cannibalism while the snakes are not adults is enough to prevent me from cohabitating. don't put words in my mouth.

if judging me makes you feel better about yourself, go for it. it isn't gonna change anything. i keep snakes as pets because i enjoy them. PERSONAL ENJOYMENT. that's why anyone keeps a pet. not because you can offer them a better life than mother nature can. that's a fallacy. now with that said, if i were to house two adult corn snakes in a captive habitat with optimum conditions and they expressed signs of stress, then i would cease that action. but if i housed two snakes and they got along, i wouldn't consider that cruelty. just blindly assuming that ALL corn snakes will ALWAYS be cannibals or will be stressed when put in one enclosure is just plain ignorance. never use absolute statements, they will always get you in trouble.

but at the end of the day, if housing two snakes in one tank is cruelty, then so is all of these "newbies" who are first time owners who don't have the knowledge, skills and experience to keep a snake.

 

[starsevol]

Well, let's see...the first 3 pictures are not cornsnakes. Those don't count as they are different species.
In the last picture it is obviously 2 cornsnake being forced to co hab in captivity that are competing for that hide. They are not snuggling, they are competing.

Can you name one single way in which co habbing BENEFITS a snake? NOT the owner, the SNAKE??

We all keep pets for personal enjoyment, but when you disregard their well being and go against their nature, you aren't much of a pet owner. My pets come FIRST.

 

[patches152]

Well, let's see...the first 3 pictures are not cornsnakes. Those don't count as they are different species.
In the last picture it is obviously 2 cornsnake being forced to co hab in captivity that are competing for that hide. They are not snuggling, they are competing.

Can you name one single way in which co habbing BENEFITS a snake? NOT the owner, the SNAKE??

We all keep pets for personal enjoyment, but when you disregard their well being and go against their nature, you aren't much of a pet owner. My pets come FIRST.

you didn't specify corn snakes, you just said snakes. that's what i provided you with.

btw, that last picture was a pair of snakes BREEDING. they're a mated pair, like i've been referencing throughout this conversation.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.

 

[starsevol]

Well let's see now, 6 people other than myself have said co habbing is improper husbandry. One of those people has a degree in wildlife management.
But they must allll be wrong, and you right?

I don't think so!!!!

The sad thing is that a teacher should know better. A teacher should do research before bringing in classroom pets. And every child that sees those cornsnakes thinks that co habbing is fine.

And it's not.

 

[starsevol]

you didn't specify corn snakes, you just said snakes. that's what i provided you with.

btw, that last picture was a pair of snakes BREEDING. they're a mated pair, like i've been referencing throughout this conversation.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.

Ever hear the expression "there is never a problem, until there is a problem?"
Just because you have never had a problem does not mean that you know what you are doing, it just means that so far you have been lucky.

As far as experts go,
The man who runs this site just retired, but he was the largest cornsnake breeder in the country and has discovered many new morphs.

And several members ARE experts and leaders in the reptile field.
Ever hear of Rich Zuchowski?
Kathy Love?
Don Sodersburg?
Lee Abbott?

Just because you have never had a problem and your mother the teacher has never had a problem does not make it right.
Back in the 1950s parents did not use car seats. Most kids survived.

 

[susang]

.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.

I do believe by recommending the search function it will give unbaised opinions. Information learned from this forum being repeated sure, we learned form Kathy Love, Rich Hume, Rich Z, Marcel Poots, Dr Mohr and many more who have been around corn snakes a year or two.

 

[patches152]

Well let's see now, 6 people other than myself have said co habbing is improper husbandry. One of those people has a degree in wildlife management.
But they must allll be wrong, and you right?

I don't think so!!!!

The sad thing is that a teacher should know better. A teacher should do research before bringing in classroom pets. And every child that sees those cornsnakes thinks that co habbing is fine.

And it's not.

so far, improper husbandry that has been stated has been cannibalism (which is an issue with youth, which ive admitted is a possibility, so is a non issue as far as this conversation goes). aside from that, the only other complaint is "unwanted pregnancy". stress is something you can see through actions, and appropriate actions can be taken accordingly. moving a snake to a new tank can cause stress, not enough humidity during shedding or not enough heat during digestion can cause stress. i see tons and tons of post about bad sheds and regurgitations, etc...THAT is cruelty to animals.

at this point, i'm not convinced that two adults that get along in one tank can be considered poor husbandry, as you state it.

 

[starsevol]

Susan, I forgot about Marcel Poots, Dr Mohr and Rich Hume!!!

Patchy, you talk about adults "getting along together" in a cage, but they don't. That's the point.
Pet shops co hab corns to save space, and have very little interest in the animals themselves.

Like I asked before,
how does co habbing BENEFIT the snake??
Do you have an answer?

 

[starsevol]

But yeah patchy, all the REAL experts who have dedicated their entire lives to this species..they are allll wrong. And YOU are right!!

At least in your own head you are.......

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Oh my gosh... really? Wow, what an amazingly weak argument, patches152. :/ Those pictures you provided? The garter snakes are mating, that's a natural behavior that is seen after the snakes come out of brumation. This is NOT proof of being a social animal. It's proof that they MATE. The rattlesnakes? In all honesty that seems to me like a photo from one of those "rattlesnake roundups" If you wanna talk about animal cruelty, look into those. Providing us of a photo of animals being rounded up to be slaughtered does not support your argument one bit.

And corn snakes being forced into the same enclosure so that the male mates with the female REGARDLESS of whether or not she's ready is supporting your argument... how? All that photo of the corn snakes together proves is that they can mate, whether you are ready for eggs or not, and whether the female is ready or not.

You asked for someones degree, implying that hearing that information would make you reconsider what they have had to say on the subject. You were provided with evidence of a degree, and yet you still ignore their insight. How mature. That's a big sign of knowing you're wrong but not admitting it.

You have been proven with multiple pieces of evidence that stress HAS been the problem with snakes being cohabbed. You have yet to give us definitive evidence that they are consistently NOT stressed enough to be a cause of concern.

And don't you dare imply that your mother snakes suffered when they were separated BECAUSE they were separated. Correlation does not equal causation, seriously. And how often do those snakes escape? I realize escapes can happen to anyone, but if it's been a common thing perhaps something should be done about that. :/

All in all, you should do some research of your own and stop using anecdotal evidence. Don't even try to prove something if you haven't even looked into it first. Educate yourself, then come back to us.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Oops, also forgot one thing. Give us some pros of cohabitating snakes.