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Politics - They Play With People's Lives

Personally I don't mind filibuster from either side. As stated before I am Libertarian/Constitutionalist/Independent mutt. Obstructionism to me, in general, means the less the fools in DC are destroying this great nation. I wish they would have obstructed the passage of many many many other lame laws too. :shrugs:
 
Jan. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Illinois Governor Pat Quinn will ask lawmakers next month to authorize an $8.75 billion bond sale to pay at least $6 billion in overdue bills.

“Once the revenue comes in, it will begin to bring in more money to address our backlog,” said Kelly Kraft, a spokeswoman for Quinn, in a telephone interview today.

The borrowing plan revives a proposal that died amid the passage of a package of bills in the waning hours of the legislative session. The Legislature approved a 67 percent increase in the personal-income tax and a 46 percent boost in the corporate income tax, both aimed at plugging a budget hole of at least $13 billion. Quinn signed the measure today, according to a news release. Lawmakers are to return to Springfield in February.
 
LOL!
Yeah... he should have just stuck to sports. Pretty amazing that some of his "stuff" isn't considered "hate speech". Pretty incredible how if a conservative speaks his mind it is hate speech and fear mongering, but have a liberal do it (Olberman, Behar, et al) and it is "acceptable".

Maybe he'll go back to "just sports". I won't mind watching him - then. LOL.
 
It's terrible that the two sides play off of each other so well. He is still going to be major paid, just as Glen Beck always will be, so it makes no difference to them whether they stay or leave. They really just make one another rich by playing a very convincing acting job that they understand how the "real Americans" feel, what the future holds, and then collect the cash (not too much different from organized religion). It really has nothing to do with speaking their mind. It's about changing others peoples minds to put laws into effect that dictate how all people should live (which is the most UN-American way of being... IMO). I still don't even know what a "conservative" is (or what a "liberal" is for that matter)?

It's really just a class issue disguised into a religious, political... whatever... issue. People are almost as judgmental about class and political views as they were about race in the civil rights days. Example... My mother had this man walk into her store the other day trying to sell some anti-Obama shirts. She kindly stated to the man that she wasn't interested in buying them (and if you knew my mother, you'd know that it would take something HIGHLY offensive for her not to be kind, especially at work). The man said "why not, do you not believe in America", blah, blah, blah... She just stated that she wasn't interested, she had differing views, and wished him off. He just went off about how people that voted Obama destroyed America, our freedom, etc, etc... Completely harassing my mother at her place of work, even while she's dealing with other customers. This is extremism to me, and it's all caused by this overblown class war being exploited through the media!

I mean, was Olbermann even all that great with sports anyways? Same with Limbaugh. Kind of strange how they start with sports, then move their way up to be so drastically different in the political landscape, while at the same time making loads of money.
 
"...He just went off about how people that voted Obama destroyed America, our freedom, etc, etc... Completely harassing my mother at her place of work,..."

As most members here already know, I have some quite strong political views. Yet I would never put political stickers on my vehicle, or wear political t shirts out in public, etc. That is because you never know what crazy people are out there, and I DON'T want to have to tangle with (or even have a discussion with) them. Too bad that some people think that they can catch more flies with vinegar than honey!
 
I just wanted to comment on this one point
"In the meantime, thousands of jobless Americans will start to lose their unemployment benefits"
At some point there has to be a motivator to get off unemployment. Way too many people are not willing to take jobs that are "beneath" what they were earning before, and thus continue to milk the unemployment benefits. I'm sorry if you were laid off of your $100,000/year job, but maybe you ought to consider taking the $30,000 a year job you could be offered instead of complaining about how short of a time the government will compensate you (at about $60,000 or so). I currently work 3 jobs, none of which are my ideal career or which make a great amount of money. But I get up each day and go to work instead of crying that I'm overqualified (I am). I'm just so tired of paying people not to work because they think they're too good for the jobs available.
 
As most members here already know, I have some quite strong political views. Yet I would never put political stickers on my vehicle, or wear political t shirts out in public, etc. That is because you never know what crazy people are out there, and I DON'T want to have to tangle with (or even have a discussion with) them. Too bad that some people think that they can catch more flies with vinegar than honey!

I agree, the only things I have on my car is a front vanity plate that has my old badge on it and says "Explosive Ordnance Disposal", and on my rear bumper I have a sticker that says "I STOP FOR IED'S, And Then I Earn My Paycheck". I would rather not have some nut attack me because I do not like the current administration. I did not attack people because they had bumper stickers that said "Arrest Bush" or "Bush is a Terrorist" or something to that extent.

I just wanted to comment on this one point
"In the meantime, thousands of jobless Americans will start to lose their unemployment benefits"
At some point there has to be a motivator to get off unemployment. Way too many people are not willing to take jobs that are "beneath" what they were earning before, and thus continue to milk the unemployment benefits. I'm sorry if you were laid off of your $100,000/year job, but maybe you ought to consider taking the $30,000 a year job you could be offered instead of complaining about how short of a time the government will compensate you (at about $60,000 or so). I currently work 3 jobs, none of which are my ideal career or which make a great amount of money. But I get up each day and go to work instead of crying that I'm overqualified (I am). I'm just so tired of paying people not to work because they think they're too good for the jobs available.

When I got out of the military to start school, my family back home kept telling me to go draw unemployment until I found a job. I never tried to get it. By the time I would have started getting paid, I would have already had a job. Some people do not want to realize that they may never get their ideal job again. Honestly, I am over qualified to work at Petco, but I do anyway. I enjoy it and they work with my school schedule. I to have seen way too many people pulling unemployment, that did not need to. They easily could have taken the pay cut and found a job, but they wouldn't.
 
I just wanted to comment on this one point
"In the meantime, thousands of jobless Americans will start to lose their unemployment benefits"
At some point there has to be a motivator to get off unemployment. Way too many people are not willing to take jobs that are "beneath" what they were earning before, and thus continue to milk the unemployment benefits. I'm sorry if you were laid off of your $100,000/year job, but maybe you ought to consider taking the $30,000 a year job you could be offered instead of complaining about how short of a time the government will compensate you (at about $60,000 or so). I currently work 3 jobs, none of which are my ideal career or which make a great amount of money. But I get up each day and go to work instead of crying that I'm overqualified (I am). I'm just so tired of paying people not to work because they think they're too good for the jobs available.
That would be great if it was realistic. But the truth is, there really is such a thing as being over qualified. I was laid off from my long-time position by one of the big banks not long ago. I spent about 9 months out of work and didn't go one day without looking in one way or another. Yes, I even tried to get low-end retail jobs. I even tried to get part-time work doing Domino's and such delivery. These places don't want to hire someone they know is only taking the job until something comes along. They aren't going to hire someone that will be leaving at any moment. So they give the jobs to people more likely to stay. So while it's nice to sit atop your high mount, until you've really been in the type of situation your criticizing, you really don't know how it goes down. Sorry if this is coming off harsh at all as it's not my intent, but I do get really tired of hearing the preaching from people that clearly don't understand how the job market actually works on different levels.

And as for your $60,000/year unemployment claim, that's not even close to reality. I had the max for NY state and calculating it out as an annual amount, it barely hit $20,000. Once you pass a max limit, it doesn't matter how much more you were getting paid, when calculating unemployment benefits. Trust me, I had plenty of motivation to find work and get off unemployment. It's called keeping my family from ending up homeless. But at the same time, that little bit of assistance did help keep that from happening until I was back to work. The amount unemployment is costing is probably a hell of a lot less than letting all those people end up on the streets, and thus becoming 100% drains on society instead of having money to put back into the economy (from being able to pay bills and buy necessities).

One parting comment. Do all those railing about unemployment assistance realize that everyone who works (legally) pays into unemployment insurance? Just like any other insurance I pay into, I have no problem using it when I have a legitimate claim.
 
LOL!
Yeah... he should have just stuck to sports. Pretty amazing that some of his "stuff" isn't considered "hate speech". Pretty incredible how if a conservative speaks his mind it is hate speech and fear mongering, but have a liberal do it (Olberman, Behar, et al) and it is "acceptable".

Maybe he'll go back to "just sports". I won't mind watching him - then. LOL.

Fred, I would really like concrete examples of "stuff" that could be considered hate speech coming from Keith Olberman. Could you post any here?

TSST, when are you going to follow up on the PS of post #76? Or is it safe to assume those links will never be posted?
 
The Dangerous Culture of Misinformation

Do you watch Fox News? :uhoh:

On December 10, 2010, the University of Maryland released the results of a study conducted by World Public Opinion about the correctness or incorrectness of information that voters used to make decisions in advance of the mid-term elections. The study received a little coverage on MSNBC and accusations from Fox News that the University of Maryland was a party school with little or no academic credibility. It should have received far more coverage, but what with the Christmas holidays, the crowing of Republicans about their Congressional victories and the tragedy in Tucson, the story just faded away.

The study specifically tracked the levels of misinformation among American voters on significant issues and the recent history of those issues. What did people believe about the immediate and long term effects of the stimulus package, the immediate and long term effects of the health care law, the war in Afghanistan, the President’s birthplace, income taxes, TARP, how the two parties had voted on legislation involving these issues. In one way, the study was a small shock. Americans are far too misinformed for their own good. In another way, it wasn’t a surprise at all. Fox News viewers are the most misinformed consumers of news in America. Well, duh.

According to the study’s conclusions “Consumers of all sources of media evidenced substantial misinformation, suggesting that false or misleading information is widespread in the general information environment, just as voters say they perceive it to be. In most cases increasing exposure to news sources decreased misinformation; however, for some news sources on some issues, higher levels of exposure increased misinformation.”

The sources that were reviewed were newspapers and magazines (both print and on-line), network TV news, public broadcasting, Fox News, MSNBC and CNN. All of these sources had consumers whose information was erroneous, which suggested that misinformation comes from the general culture more than from specific news media. Some of it, obviously, comes from the politicians themselves. That’s what the Citizens United case was all about, allowing corporations and the very rich to purchase attack ads Attack ads are notorious for their twisting of information, as in the case of the ads against Bernie Sanders during his Senatorial campaign. One set of ads claimed that Bernie’s votes in the House had favored rapists over their victims. The actual vote that was being cited was one on a procedural issue (closing debate) and not on the bill itself. That’s how attack ads work. They prey on the voters’ lack of understanding of the processes of government.

The study showed that the more people exposed themselves to the news, the less misinformed they were in general, but on certain issues, the reverse was true.

Fox News viewers came out at the top of the misinformed pile. They were more likely than the viewers of other media sources to believe all of the following misinformation:
* most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses
* most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit
* the economy is getting worse
* most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring
* the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
* their own income taxes have gone up
* the auto bailout only occurred under Obama
* when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it
* it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States

How much these lies were believed was in direct proportion to the amount of time people spent watching Fox. Even Democrats who watched Fox believed this misinformation, so it was not a matter of the viewer’s bias, but a matter of the networks bias.

MSNBC, NPR and PBS consumers did have one significant misinformation score. They believed that it had been proven that the Chamber of Commerce was using foreign money to fund attack ads in the election. This has not been proven because the Chamber refuses to open its books for examination. MSNBC corrected this while reporting on the study.

And the viewers of network news believed that the TARP bill was signed by President Obama instead of by President Bush, and believed that most Republicans had opposed it.

The study did not look at the internal operations of Fox News. That information has come out through whisteblowers within the network over the past few years. The Republican Party sends the network “talking points bulletins” to influence the “news” that Fox “reports.” The management at Fox directs all the programs to present disclaimer views to any news that might support a liberal position, i.e. if a news item explains how global warming is responsible for the heavy snow storms, the “reporters” must talk up those few scientists who say there is no global warming.

The study missed one important aspect of the mid-term election, the perceptions about illegal and legal immigration and the access that illegals have to government subsidies and programs. You have all heard the attacks on the administration claiming that they are soft on illegals, they want more illegals to increase their voter base, they are failing to protect our borders. What you almost never hear is the FACT that last year, half a million Mexicans were stopped at the border and another half-million illegals were arrested and deported, the highest numbers ever. Furthermore, you never hear any news media explain how entitlement programs function, who qualifies for what programs and how few illegals could even qualify if they had forged birth certificates because the vast majority of them are single men.

To read the whole report go to www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa or google World Public Opinion Dec. 10 report.
Source: http://lezgetreal.com/2011/01/the-dangerous-culture-of-misinformation/
 
Fred, I would really like concrete examples of "stuff" that could be considered hate speech coming from Keith Olberman. Could you post any here?...
You are kidding here right? Seriously? This was meant tongue in cheek right?

His entire program WAS based in well worded insults to anyone that did not share his extremists views. I suppose one could attempt to left-spin obviously denigrating insults as merely adjectives combined for a proper description. But I would consider anyone saying such blatantly derogatory things as being hateful. :shrugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3FmtENPmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaJLbJDuAc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLPqAZnhsw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBrbCcOVDH4&feature=related

even liberal comedian Jon Stewart thinks he goes too far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZylQXm-vis&feature=related
 

Indeed a got random links that had nothing to do with the graph that we were discussing about. I guess I got what you promised. Thank you.

BTW, no need to apologize... there was no urgency and that's why I waited patiently for almost a month, but since I saw you posting here and there in the forum, I assumed you had the time to follow up on your post (3 weeks after your estimated time).

And you still had the option to just let go and say the links would never come. ;)

I never meant to pressure you. I just didn't want that to be forgotten.

You are kidding here right? Seriously? This was meant tongue in cheek right?

His entire program WAS based in well worded insults to anyone that did not share his extremists views. I suppose one could attempt to left-spin obviously denigrating insults as merely adjectives combined for a proper description. But I would consider anyone saying such blatantly derogatory things as being hateful. :shrugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3FmtENPmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaJLbJDuAc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLPqAZnhsw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBrbCcOVDH4&feature=related

even liberal comedian Jon Stewart thinks he goes too far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZylQXm-vis&feature=related

Nope, that was a serious question.

And you are right, perhaps I would attempt to left-spin obviously denigrating insults as merely adjectives combined for a proper description.

Is the definition in terms of what the speech reflects, such as bigotry, bias, prejudice, anger, ignorance, and fear? Or what the speech conveys: intimidation, vilification, subjugation, eradication?
Source: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=2619"

According to Wikipedia:
Hate speech is, outside the law, any communication which disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual orientation.[1][2] In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.

In my opinion hate speech is what it conveys... it is a call for action, an enticement (more related to the legal definition of the word). Olberman's speeches were based on the former, more specifically in anger.

I'm not trying to justify his actions. Olberman SHOULD NOT use insults. He has facts to support his points while maintaining civility.

But to compare his name callings to Beck's, Limbaugh's, etc. hate speeches (against muslims, gays, blacks, etc.) is simply ludicrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL5tjGK-x-g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ImxC3P1XY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAabc0omW8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKU19KKUbWY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48cCPz3SZg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-somPndtLY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZNk18yiMk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmr4PJf7R0Y&feature=related
 
Indeed a got random links that had nothing to do with the graph that we were discussing about. I guess I got what you promised. Thank you. ...
I should have specified in post #72 that by random links I meant in general about the threads title.

... Nope, that was a serious question.

And you are right, perhaps I would attempt to left-spin obviously denigrating insults as merely adjectives combined for a proper description.


Source: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=2619"

According to Wikipedia:


In my opinion hate speech is what it conveys... it is a call for action, an enticement (more related to the legal definition of the word). Olberman's speeches were based on the former, more specifically in anger.

I'm not trying to justify his actions. Olberman SHOULD NOT use insults. He has facts to support his points while maintaining civility.

But to compare his name callings to Beck's, Limbaugh's, etc. hate speeches (against muslims, gays, blacks, etc.) is simply ludicrous.
By saying one I did not mean to single you out. My intent by one was more general as in someone. For me the only separation between Rush, Beck and Olbermann is the team they support.

I will give you this. Your hero Dr Maddow(your words) although being as divisive and bias as the others at least seems not to be quite as verbally incendiary.
 
JP... my use of the phrase "hate speech" was a little strong... although we probably do disagree exactly what constitutes "hate speech". I probably should have said that he is as "inflammatory" coming from the left as Rush, Hannity, et al supposedly are coming from the right. I don't feel the need to post any links as everyone here is able to find his "stuff" and compare them to the others' "stuff" and make up their own minds (some of which might be the links both you and Tsst posted - I haven't perused them all). To my ear, they all sound the same...
 
The internet shut down in Egypt. Didn't DC want this same power recently? hmmm

updatedgraphic.jpg
 
I think that he held up very well when our country was invaded and attacked.

Other than ignoring the info he was given about it before it happened... :eek:

But, what's 3000 lives if it gives him a chance to invade the wrong country (the hijacker/murderers were Saudi Arabians...Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11)...at least he was able to finagle a bunch of bad laws, wipe his rear-end w/ the Consitution, and create the Department of Homeland Paranoia!

Not bad for Mama and Papa Bu$$h's least promising son... :cheers:
 
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