Is this a Caramel?

[asnakecalled?]

hi everyone i'm just after your thoughts on my new corn, my guess is Caramel her body and eye looks caramel but her Ventral markings aren't black they are really light brown, so what do you think ?

 

[ratsncorns]

Looks to be a normal. Too much red for a caramel. Normals can have a lot of variation, it one of the cool things about them

 

[Destarte]

I was going to say normal as well, but didn't for fear of being wrong and ridiculed.

 

[asnakecalled?]

sorry she's more brown then that ill go and get another pic (a better one)

 

[ratsncorns]

These are caramels... that one definitely is a normal. Normals can be very brown, they can be misleading for sure!

 

[Christen]

Definitely a normal but very pretty. Normals are great because no two are the same color.

 

[asnakecalled?]

2 more pics, the first one out side in the sun and the second with the flash, the pics don't do her justice she looks like the adult pic on http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/caramel/
but with the belly of a golddust.

 

[Christen]

There is just not enough yellow in her. Most of the pics on Ians that show the brown caramels are under a year and babies do tend to be a little more brown and start to yellow up by the time they are a year old.

 

[Sweetseraph]

I would have to agree it's a normal. Can you post a pic of the eye?

 

[airenlow]

Normal/Classic

 

[DMong]

Yes, that is actually a fairly common naturally occurring phenotype of many southern Florida cornsnakes too.



~Doug

 

[Susan]

Definitely not a caramel, but with those light belly checks, I would have to say a hypo.

Caramels do come in a variety of shades, some more yellow than others, some more brown. But compare the color of the saddles. This adult caramel female does not show any of the red/orange seen in the saddles of yours. It is more of a tan or even bronze-ish color. The eye color is the same...no hint of red or orange (rusty) color.

 

[DMong]

Definitely not a caramel, but with those light belly checks, I would have to say a hypo.

Susan,.....It's hard to make out from the photos, but it seems to have an aweful lot of gray/brown to it's ground color to be a true simple recessive hypo. I have seen quite a few wild-caught corns from different areas in Florida that basically "look" hypomelanistic that were simply color variants that would not pass the trait along inherently.

If that snake is hypomelanistic, it would be pretty darn dark normally.



~Doug

 

[Susan]

Hypo is considered by some to be a 4-letter word, if you get my meaning. The variability is so great that the only way to determine what you have is to test breed it with a known. Yes, I've seen many normals with that light a coloration, but I've also seen darker hypos. The ground color isn't as important as the color of the black parts (saddle bands, belly checks). I was making a guessimate based mostly on the coloration of the belly checks in the only photo of them. They lack ground or saddle color as well as melanin in that photo, looking very bronze in color, which to me indicates hypo.

PS: What color would you expect a hypo's ground color to be?

 

[DMong]

Hypo is considered by some to be a 4-letter word, if you get my meaning. The variability is so great that the only way to determine what you have is to test breed it with a known. Yes, I've seen many normals with that light a coloration, but I've also seen darker hypos. The ground color isn't as important as the color of the black parts (saddle bands, belly checks). I was making a guessimate based mostly on the coloration of the belly checks in the only photo of them. They lack ground or saddle color as well as melanin in that photo, looking very bronze in color, which to me indicates hypo.

PS: What color would you expect a hypo's ground color to be?

Yes, I noticed all of those key points you mentioned. It could either be a hypo or a browner colored normal.

I'm sure we are on the same page because alot of what you said looks exactly like something I would have typed out.



~Doug

 

[asnakecalled?]

thanks everyone for your input, ill just have to breed her to find out, ill pair her up with my male amber het amel and anery then at least ill find out one way or an other.
thanks all :cheers: for the help

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

ill just have to breed her to find out,

Sorry, but there's nothing to find out, she is definitely NOT caramel. Now its certainly possible she could be het for caramel, but she just isn't a caramel.

Good luck with her though!

 

[asnakecalled?]

she better be carrying caramel her mum was a butter, i just didn't know what her dad was thats why i asked but since she's not caramel he must not of had any caramel in him, thats why i sead i would test her out.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

she better be carrying caramel her mum was a butter, i just didn't know what her dad was thats why i asked but since she's not caramel he must not of had any caramel in him, thats why i sead i would test her out.

Oh, well if the dam was a butter, then she's definitely het. She looks nice and big so hopefully will throw a bunch of eggs for you!

 

[Dreamsnake]

I think she's a pretty snake. I like her better then a caramel.