• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

"Right to work" law.

I mean, I am guilty of arguing myself in some threads but eventually I give up because it becomes pointless.

I can give my opinion and not argue with others that disagree with it.
 
I can too, but what's the point of opinions, then? If I don't care enough about what you say to try to understand it, or care enough about what I say to be able to defend it, why should either opinion be worthy of voice?
 
I will voice no opinion on the original topic. I do have an opinion about opinions and that is everyone has one. Some find it necessary to show theirs at every junction and some know when to wait for the appropriate time and place. I also don't find it necessary to argue or debate every topic on this forum and yet it is my opinion some do. So be it argue debate do what makes you feel good, because I don't doesn't mean I don't have a voice.
 
starsevol said:
Right to work elevates human rights over union rights.
Unions are no longer neccessary.
Click to expand...

You need to go watch Norma Rae!!

Just kidding, kind of. I think unions were formed for very good reasons and even now companies aren't altruistic enough, mostly, to compensate employees fairly if they don't have to.

When I lived in a union state, I _definitely_ benefited from it. Again, even though I wasn't a union employee (I think there was a prohibition for unions in my county job) my benefits package was that of a union employee. Same job, in the south, not nearly the employer-provided benefits. Fewer holidays, no pension, lower employer contribution to my IRA, no dental benefits paid by the employer, less life insurance provided, less LTD and STD provided, etc.
 
As far as the Eliizabeth Warren rally, I was changing radio stations in my car and came across the Michael Graham show on 96.9fm out of Massachusetts. It was a topic of discussion and sound bites were played of interviews with union members who were fined for not going to the rally. This was back in October.

Nanci, I agree that unions were formed for good reasons, and in some cases still might be needed today. I don't like the idea of ANYONE being abused or taken advantage of, but have heard so many stories about employers not being able to fire union workers who go to work drunk or stoned or are incompetant or slackers. And companies driven to the brink of bankruptcy due to union demands. And everyone has seen how teachers unions delay the opening of schools in September.

I think people should have a choice whether or not to join a union and if the unions are such wonderful things, they will endure.
 
I am not a union fan. Have some bad experiences with unions. IMHO they definitely had their purpose when they started, now not so much.

edit: The thing I don't get is nobody is saying they can't be in a union or they can't collectively bargain. They are just wanting the right to choose instead of being forced. If unions are so great wouldn't everyone continue to join? Why is the union so threatened by this law if everyone can still join the union?
 
Last edited:
Im a union carpenter !!!! If the union wasnt here in washington i would be payed 12 to 16$ an hour instead of 30$. Making less then a satelite dish installer...unions have there goods and bads about them but if we didnt have them benifets wouldnt exist . Cause the nonunion companies for the most part wouldnt pay them because they wouldnt have to compete...at this time im working for a company that isnt union but they pay union scale but not the same benies. But they have too to be competative.. In the union they keep track of the hours you work and send you to classes to learn . Nonunion can only go by what you tell them you have done. And you arent required to go to classes for weilding ,rigging, proper hand signals for crain controll on top of many others. Now the bad monthly does, you are always working yourself out of work, if you dont pay your dues they can suspend you and pull you off the job...so there are good and bad... But atleast you have the choice you are not being forced to be in the union. but its like college you can find a better paying job with the union cause you get a better education on what your job is about. Sorry about the rambleing on....
 
tsst said:
I am not a union fan. Have some bad experiences with unions. IMHO they definitely had their purpose when they started, now not so much.

edit: The thing I don't get is nobody is saying they can't be in a union or they can't collectively bargain. They are just wanting the right to choose instead of being forced. If unions are so great wouldn't everyone continue to join? Why is the union so threatened by this law if everyone can still join the union?
Click to expand...

I agree that this could be done. And would be beneficial if more people would band together and be willing to stand together with their fellow employees against unfair management, whether or not they were in a union. The problem with that though is that especially around here, no one would do it. There is way too much vindictiveness, not my problem, fear to be fired, and so on to form together and the companies are very good at fostering that attitude.
As to people joining unions if they were such a wonderful thing, again maybe not. Both my father and brother are union members and often try to recruit other employees to the union. Almost everyone they talk to at first at least is very put off by the $35 a month fee. My Father usually uses questions to get the point across, which are which places around here pay the best for similar work? Do they all have unions in them? Which is a yes. Then, so wouldn't you say that the unions keep the wages higher and are worth having around? Almost everyone will agree to those points but a lot of employees will still not want to pay dues because by about half of the other workers doing it, they get a number of the benefits without having to do anything, which is fine in and of itself but most of the ones with that mindset, and that group is getting bigger every year, will most likely not notice until the union has died away. And by then, rebuilding both the union and it's present influence with management will take a very long time.
But again, my opinion on unions are that they did great and wonderful things when they started but in a lot of cases and times since have used and abused their power and influence to hurt people. There is probably a much better way to do the good things unions still do with less of the bad stuff, if only someone could come up with it and actually be able to implement it.
 
My bad experiences will ensure I avoid unions. That said I don't really have any issue with others wanting unions except for two points.

1) it should never be manditory

2) the violence has to be eliminated
 
Tavia said:
Almost everyone they talk to at first at least is very put off by the $35 a month fee. My Father usually uses questions to get the point across, which are which places around here pay the best for similar work? Do they all have unions in them? Which is a yes. Then, so wouldn't you say that the unions keep the wages higher and are worth having around? Almost everyone will agree to those points but a lot of employees will still not want to pay dues because by about half of the other workers doing it, they get a number of the benefits without having to do anything,
Click to expand...

I'd like to second this point. Currently, I'm in my first job which offered the benefit of having a union. I joined, but most of the others in my orientation (who all had the same opportunity) did not. One of them actually said "why pay the fees when we'll all get the same cost of living raises and benefits." Frustrating.
 
BlackBear123 said:
... One of them actually said "why pay the fees when we'll all get the same cost of living raises and benefits." Frustrating.
Click to expand...
Not sure I see the problem here. So they are getting paid the same and getting the same benefits to do the same job?
 
Corporations are not know for their altruism- as was pointed out earlier. Without negotiations and protests from the union, a 3% cost of living raise could have been the original 1%. People who feel the union isn't necessary to their jobs can either take the 1% offered or negotiate themselves.
It costs money to maintain an origination- and if you're not willing to help maintain it then you shouldn't benefit from it's gains.
 
Yet the military is still the worst paid corporation in the US... And, it is illegal for them to form unions/strike...
 
The things the military do for this country should make them the highest paid people in the country but they made that rule so the president has full power. Without any protest.
 
I think people should have a choice whether or not to join a union and if the unions are such wonderful things, they will endure.
Click to expand...

Unions bargain on behalf of everybody, not just the people who pay the dues. There are people who want the benefit of the union, but aren't willing to contribute to it. If too many people adopt this mindset, then the union falls apart and the benefits are lost. How successful would negotiations be between adminstration and people demanding better conditions/pay/benefits if there are only a handful of them asking for it. They'll just fire the people making the demands and hire new people. The strength comes in the numbers.

If it could be structured that those who pay union dues get the union benefits, and those who choose not to join the union don't get the union benefits, that would be fair IMO, but that isn't how it works. I bet unions enrollment would be higher if paying dues meant you got a raise and more benefits, but failure to pay meant those where stripped away.

Plus, places with unions also raise the standards for non-union employers in the same job sector. The non-union employers have to keep wages and benefits up to be competitive with the union places of employment. So non-union people at a different place of employment even benefit from the work of the unions.

Kinda like the whole "rising tide lifts all boats" thing.

The elimination of unions opens the door for corporations to be even less altruistic. The corporation doesn't care about its employees, especially when it depends on low-skill labor that is easily replaced.

But, unions can be a pain too... Union greed vs. corporate greed. Which is better? :confused:
 
But just think, if there were no unions businesses would be competing with other businesses to get the best employees. Some would offer better benefits and wages for the best and the brightest workers they could find.
And would be able to fire drunks and bad apples.

How many businesses have gone bankrupt due to union demands?
How many are forced to keep employees who are not good workers because the union he belongs to makes certain he keeps his job, thus can't hire someone better?
How many businesses can't hire more workers because they are forced to pay the wage the union demands?

And even if that thought is wrong, do you believe that choice equals freedom? I do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top