Purist Breeders

[DMong]

The POINT of creating hybrids is to make something different.
The misguided people who want something different won't settle for a hybrid that looks pure.
If you are a HYBRID breeder, and half of your mutts look pure, you sell them as pure because if they look pure no one will ever know, and no hybrid buyer would ever want them.

ahhhh,........stop presenting so many perfectly legitimate FACTS!....would ya?? He's running out of bogus pseud-justification counter arguements..LMAO!!!

It won't stop him from starting all over again though......*sigh* :boring:



~Doug

 

[starsevol]

ahhhh,........stop presenting so many perfectly legitimate FACTS!....would ya?? He's running out of bogus pseud-justification counter arguements..LMAO!!!

It won't stop him from starting all over again though......*sigh* :boring:



~Doug

But but...dna tests...paternity tests.....hybrid vigor....and they look look look so perty......and bad people do bad things and you need to be a genetics wiz and an expert in taxonomy if you want pure corns because the label can say anything at all....but don't blame the creators of the beautiful wonderful hybridssswsssssssssssssssssssssssss....

You mean like that?

 

[DMong]

Personally, ANY snake I breed is from someone I trust, and in most cases I knew where the parents of those snakes came from as well.
But what about the ancestors down the line? What about the kids breeding pet shop snakes who don't know a hypo from a trundlefart? (sorry Nanci).

Sorry, I think that the creators of the crap need to be blamed.

Gosh, there probably can't be more than say.... 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 of those snake shop buyers acquiring and breeding folds more false corns. How would there ever be any mutts produced and distributed everywhere that way?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(major sarcasm of course)


~Doug

 

[DMong]

But but...dna tests...paternity tests.....hybrid vigor....and they look look look so perty......and bad people do bad things and you need to be a genetics wiz and an expert in taxonomy if you want pure corns because the label can say anything at all....but don't blame the creators of the beautiful wonderful hybridssswsssssssssssssssssssssssss....

You mean like that?

AAAHHHAHAHAHAA!!!!......JUST like that! :laugh01:


I was cracking up reading that...

 

[starsevol]

AAAHHHAHAHAHAA!!!!......JUST like that! :laugh01:


I was cracking up reading that...

I've been paying attention.

He seems to think that hybridizers are blameless, but ask yourself this.
If someone is a purest, or THINKS that what they have is pure, they tend not to dump or wholesale or mislabel animals.
They have nothing to hide or at least they believe they have nothing to hide.

But when species lines are crossed, that's when you get hybrids that look pure. Who is most likely to have them in the first place?

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Gosh, there probably can't be more than say.... 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 of those snake shop buyers acquiring and breeding folds more false corns. How would there ever be any mutts produced and distributed everywhere that way?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(major sarcasm of course)


~Doug

So, your trying to tell me that the dishonesty amongst corn snake breeders is exceptionally high? Okay, I'll buy that for a dollar. Now, even if there is some secret agenda by these evil hybridizers that are seeking to destroy your private pure corn snake collections.... wouldn't you want to ensure some protections? I'm beginning to get frightened that someone is going to slip into my house and put some pure corn snake looking hybrids into my house with all this dishonesty going on rampantly in this hobby.

I simply don't know what purists are going to do... I guess they will have to continue to breed corn snakes of unknown origin as the damage has already been done and they are helpless to develop a means to keep them out. The evil hybridizer war has been won!!!! Muaaahhaaaa insert evil laugh there.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

"3,000,000 to 5,000,000 of those snake shop buyers acquiring and breeding folds more false corns." Dmong... I never realized how unethical corn snake breeders were. But you have made it abundantly clear.... I'm not sure who I can trust now. Oh, I know, I can trust you Dmong. Your the one I can trust. And of course Starsevol. Can't forget how trustworthy she is.

See sarcasm works both ways. You may even have a valid point, but sarcasm closes down doors quick.

 

[starsevol]

"3,000,000 to 5,000,000 of those snake shop buyers acquiring and breeding folds more false corns." Dmong... I never realized how unethical corn snake breeders were. But you have made it abundantly clear.... I'm not sure who I can trust now. Oh, I know, I can trust you Dmong. Your the one I can trust. And of course Starsevol. Can't forget how trustworthy she is.

See sarcasm works both ways. You may even have a valid point, but sarcasm closes down doors quick.

Those 3,000.000 to 5,000.000 snake shop buyers are not dishonest. They just have no idea how badly polluted the pure cornsnake species has become BECAUSE OF HYBRIDIZERS.

But being a hybridizer yourself the more polluted the better, right?

 

[Nanci]

What about the kids breeding pet shop snakes who don't know a hypo from a trundlefart? (sorry Nanci).

Beth .

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

This is what I've learned though in this thread that I was after.
1. No one has any pure corn snake morphs that can be traced back to the wild or if they are they aren't telling.

2. Hybrids are so rampant in the gene pool of whats available that there really is no point in fighting it. Its futile when so many are selling impure specimens.

3. A great deal of dishonesty seems to be taking place if so many hybrids are out there being sold as pure corns as it is and there is little trust for someone to simply hybridize and another to breed pure specimens.

4. There is little hope for the new hobbiest of acquiring pure specimens before he has become a part of the problem that purists hate.

5. When you lack a good argument for why so many impure corn snakes are in purist collections.... you can always fall back on blaming the evil hybridizer. It wasn't my fault... Some hybridizer snuck it into my collection, but now I guess the hobby is stuck with it as its breeding now.

6. I could go on, but there is really no point other than to say, my original post was sincere and after being attacked by Starsevol in her very first reply to this thread... It became readily clear that this thread may deteriorate very fast. I believe thats whats called self-fulfilling prophecy in pscychology. You believe things will go a certain way so you jump on and start berating them from the start thus instigating defense and so on and so forth and here we are. I take full responsibility for letting you get my goat. I won't blame my hybrids on your introducing them into my argument so to speak.

I really did simply want to know how many morphs lineages could be traced back to wild caught origins in their entirety . The simple answer to end this post could have been... there are none... or there is one... etc.

 

[DMong]

Those 3,000.000 to 5,000.000 snake shop buyers are not dishonest. They just have no idea how badly polluted the pure cornsnake species has become BECAUSE OF HYBRIDIZERS.

But being a hybridizer yourself the more polluted the better, right?

That was precisely my point. And of course, Carpe falsely interpreted it as the countless pet store buyers being the dishonest parties so it would continue by me responding..LOL!

Time for me to bolt from this insanity. Carpe did however have some fun with occupying himself today with yet another hybrid thread he started, so it worked out great for him in that respect.


~Doug

 

[starsevol]

That was precisely my point. And of course, Carpe falsely interpreted it as the countless pet store buyers being the dishonest parties so it would continue by me responding..LOL!

Time for me to bolt from this insanity. Carpe did however have some fun with occupying himself today with yet another hybrid thread he started, so it worked out great for him in that respect.


~Doug

Yes, he must be so proud that this one reached 10 whole pages!

 

[dave partington]

It became readily clear that this thread may deteriorate very fast.

I guess you missed the first 8 pages.

I've been paying attention.

Well thank goodness for that. I was a fixin to lern ya, but sumwon dun beet me two it.

Hey Doug, how about some pics of them purdy puristbreed corns of yours, just to tease us like?

 

[hypnoctopus]

Well, part of the reason this thread came to 10 pages so quickly is because of the constant sarcasm and belittling. I don't necessarily agree with everything Carpe Serpentis says, but I've been following this thread closely (as well as the other hybrids, tessera origins, etc. threads), and everyone always jumps on him as soon as he posts. Now if he's just a troll, then you're just feeding him, and if he's not, then it's just being rude.

By all means, continue to counter his arguments with your own, but I'm really getting sick of all the fun-poking. Even though this isn't the BOI, remember that your potential customers might be reading and I would be hesitant to conduct business with someone who has so little tolerance for differing opinions that they resort to being childish.

(P.S. I like hybrids AND 'pure' corns! )

 

[dave partington]

Good points.
Considering he doesn't have any snakes at all, the "Every cornsnake is a hybrid until proven otherwise" and "Every cornsnake in captivity in the world is a hybrid" agenda has become tedious. Though on other threads when asked to show his snakes, he shows pictures of other people's snakes, and even posted a picture I took, or something not his, with no credit.

Personally I have several wild caught and F1s from wild-stock corns here, but what's the point of saying anything about them since he's already made up his mind they're hybrids anyways. Nanci already told him where to find the info regarding lineage origins in post 14, Autumn in post 16, and Michelle made a good point in post 45

How we went from

If your going to cry that some people are dishonest... I'll agree with you.

to:

1. No one has any pure corn snake morphs that can be traced back to the wild or if they are they aren't telling.

2. Hybrids are so rampant in the gene pool of whats available that there really is no point in fighting it. Its futile when so many are selling impure specimens.

3. A great deal of dishonesty seems to be taking place if so many hybrids are out there being sold as pure corns as it is and there is little trust for someone to simply hybridize and another to breed pure specimens.

4. There is little hope for the new hobbiest of acquiring pure specimens before he has become a part of the problem that purists hate.

5. When you lack a good argument for why so many impure corn snakes are in purist collections.... you can always fall back on blaming the evil hybridizer. It wasn't my fault... Some hybridizer snuck it into my collection, but now I guess the hobby is stuck with it as its breeding now.

6. I could go on, but there is really no point other than to say, my original post was sincere and after being attacked by Starsevol in her very first reply to this thread... It became readily clear that this thread may deteriorate very fast. I believe thats whats called self-fulfilling prophecy in pscychology. You believe things will go a certain way so you jump on and start berating them from the start thus instigating defense and so on and so forth and here we are. I take full responsibility for letting you get my goat. I won't blame my hybrids on your introducing them into my argument so to speak.

I really did simply want to know how many morphs lineages could be traced back to wild caught origins in their entirety . The simple answer to end this post could have been... there are none... or there is one... etc.

I never chose to define myself as a "purist". Nor have I ever defined someone as being an "impurist". He seems to enjoy making jabs and then when asked something, pulling out the 'psychology card'.
Personally I have learned nothing from this thread. Just another waste of time which could have been better spent productively.
At this point I'm going with the option in post 52.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Good points.
Considering he doesn't have any snakes at all, the "Every cornsnake is a hybrid until proven otherwise" and "Every cornsnake in captivity in the world is a hybrid" agenda has become tedious. Though on other threads when asked to show his snakes, he shows pictures of other people's snakes, and even posted a picture I took, or something not his, with no credit.

Personally I have several wild caught and F1s from wild-stock corns here, but what's the point of saying anything about them since he's already made up his mind they're hybrids anyways. Nanci already told him where to find the info regarding lineage origins in post 14, Autumn in post 16, and Michelle made a good point in post 45

How we went from




to:



I never chose to define myself as a "purist". Nor have I ever defined someone as being an "impurist". He seems to enjoy making jabs and then when asked something, pulling out the 'psychology card'.
Personally I have learned nothing from this thread. Just another waste of time which could have been better spent productively.
At this point I'm going with the option in post 52.

Tremendously well said Dave. A very good summary of events.

I am also following post #52. I will no longer feed or indulge the behavior.

The other users have done nothing but demonstrate a pride and passion for what they keep.

 

[DMong]

Hey Doug, how about some pics of them purdy puristbreed corns of yours, just to tease us like?

mmmmm,..... I dunno Dave, I could be real embarrassed if I show them off and they have some possible hybrid influence from 326 generations ago or something. :duck:


~Doug

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I've read those threads Nancy supplied and yes, it seems like the information I was after is not in them in the first 10 morphs I've read. It seems like many others have said, that once morphs become involved things get crazy. No one seems to be able to trace the lineage of their morphs back to wild caught lineage on all sides.

As for Dave being hurt that I don't list each and every source for pictures I acquire on the web. I do not take credit for anything. I applaud anyone who posts on such a picture they can find that they have seen one of their snakes or adds information to it. I am in the research phase as I have stated repeatedly. I am learning where I want to go and what I want to try by studying hybrids others have created, pure snakes I have seen some post, and even the breeders themselves. Those that are crass, I could care less about acquiring their snakes from them directly as I would not like to fatten them up or add to their ego. But that is me, I would rather recreate the wheel in an instance like that. Dave, I challenge you to show one snake that I have posted and said was my own that is in fact mine. You can not do it. Any snake I have posted that I have said is my own is my own. I'm tired of the attacks. Any fool can buy a "pure" corn and any fool can buy a hybrid. Anyone could buy a hundred snakes in a day and still no nothing about hybridizing or have any plan of attack. I am taking my time, doing research, etc. as I have said time and time again. I don't get into hybridizing projects without a plan or a direction. I see what is out there, what others have created and then I make a plan. I revise that plan as I learn more. I like to work with others and realize it is far easier to work with a wheel that has already been created than to simply recreate the wheel so to speak, but when a wheel has something missing sometimes it is necessary to go backwards. A good hybridizer knows that if he sees farther than the person before him it is only because they have stood on the backs of the giants that have been before him.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

I am not hiding the fact that I am in my research phase nor have I ever hidden this fact. I have said I am a hybridizer and I meant that. I have been hybridizing ever since my horticulture teacher, Mr. Bridges first taught me how in Elementary school. How did I have a horticulture teacher in Elementary school? I didn't my dad taught school and took me with him to school during the summer months for most of my formative years where I would hang out with Mr. Bridges learning. I was fascinated with hybridizing from a very young age. As I grew up I started learning from different hybridizers in person and researching much on my own. I taught myself to graft, do tissue culturing, make my own agar, etc. It is a hobby of mine and I'm in it because I love it. I don't care that many of you don't approve of hybridizing or that your feelings are hurt because I have posted a picture and you falsely assumed it was mine. In fact, when Dave questioned me about this in a private message I told him, no, its one of yours. You sold it to someone else or something to that effect. Really, I just can't believe that anyone would say that I posted it as my own when I've never taken credit for anyone else's work. If I cared enough to save a picture it was because it was somewhere I was either interested in going or someplace I wanted to avoid as it was already done.

 

[Nanci]

I'm not into hybrids, unless they are stunningly beautiful. Like a jungle corn- meh. Once you start doing milksnake crosses, I get interested, but rather than try to create my own, I'd rather just spend the money and get a work of art from someone else. If I wanted to own one in the first place.