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Hoping To See Dr. Kevorkian Tomorrow

jodu said:
I'll throw another aspect of health care into the discussion. In the next few years as the baby boomers get older and there are less and less resources and fewer and fewer dollars, will we still try to keep everyone alive at all costs? Will we have to put guidelines into place as to who qualifies for chemo, dialysis, certain surgeries, intensive care .....

We are incredibly lucky in the Western world to have the luxury to discuss these topics. It is not hard to imagine that in the future it will not be an ethical/moral/personal decision but an economic one.
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To some degree we already do, as in many cases the insurance company has to approve care. There are numerous people who can't afford health care or medicine. What about the simple things dental care or the eye doctor.
 
As I have read through the last few pages on the thread, it seems to me that there is some "confusion" or mixing of terms. Maybe not, maybe it is just my perspective on the matter. To me, there is a difference between Euthenasia (spelling?) and suicide. Some of the comments on here are well if people want to take their own life, so be it. Many suicides are done by mentally incompetent people. People who need medication or therapy and they will go on to live very productive lives. Plus I do agree with the fact that there are alot of grey areas...refusing treatment for example. My mom had stage 4 ovarian cancer about 4 years ago, she went through surgery and chemo, just last year she found out that it came back in another form. She finishes her chemo this week and if she gets it back again or even if it is not gone, she's done with it. She won't take it again. Now is there a difference between that and someone who is physically unable to take their own lives? Just a question to through out there.... And say the cancer does come back, is it "better" for her to allow the cancer to take her, or should she set a date and just get it over with when she wants to?
 
"...And say the cancer does come back, is it "better" for her to allow the cancer to take her, or should she set a date and just get it over with when she wants to?"

I think that only she should be able to answer that question, not anyone else. Maybe she would want to consult doctors, family members, clergy, or somebody else. But that would be for her to decide, IMO.


"...Many suicides are done by mentally incompetent people. People who need medication or therapy and they will go on to live very productive lives..."

If they are judged incompetent by a judge, then, like children, they would not have the options that other adults have. But for a normal, competent adult, who is better equipped to decide their fate than that person?

I am sure that there have been abuses or incorrect decisions by competency judges, but I am not sure what would work better. The judge is not deciding if they should live or die, just if they are competent to make their own decisions.

(Disclaimer - I have never worked in the legal system - that is just my understanding on how it works - certainly could be wrong).
 
jodu said:
That is a very good point. But I fear it will get much worse and I believe that some of the "restrictions" will be appropriate.
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Oregon has a state health care program for people who are out of work or don't make enough money, or are some other state or federal program. A few years ago there was an election to cut back on these services, fine. This is what happened people on Medicare and get their medicare premium paid by the health plan, if you dont' make too much money. If you make some money it paid the premium, but people no longer got meds, dental or vision, it also cut all mental health care for these people (people who needed it the most). The day after the election there were something like 12-15 suicides, because people couldn't get mental health. These were schizophrenics... People who had worked in their life were cut off of chemo, high blood pressure medicine, all meds, pain meds... The really odd thing about this is people with no money or haven't worked in years can get everything or people with certain diagnosis, like MS.
My sister has worked since has was 18 and works for an insurance company but has no health care. She can't afford to get sick. She can't afford a mammogram, blood tests... So to some degree we are already picking who should and shouldn't get health care, unfortunately it isn't exactly clear who is deserving. My daughter is diabetic she can barely afford the insulin and test strips.
It scares the he** out of me that the gov. will step in and decide who should live and who should die, they certainly can't get the medical care right.
 
Its not anyones place to tell me what or when I should decide to terminate my life.. It has nothing to do how conservative or how much of a libritarian I am.. Although my political view point has no place here, everyone elses was brought up, so I am stating mine..

Don't tread on me... Is a very wide and bold statement, its my choice to OD on morphine, or to gas myself.. How ever, what is worrysome to myself, is the thoughts and idealisims of a formed Governemnt, thinking it might have the power to tell me yes or no to a choice that should remain personal, whether it is conservative or liberial, Republicrat or Demican..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
The health insurance issue will have a HUGE influence on how I vote in 2008. I have needed to go see an eye doctor for a while. I have a hard time reading and have a history of glaucoma in the family. I love to read, but pretty much I self-diagnosed my pair of reading glasses by taking a paperback book at the grocery store over to the reading glasses section and trying on glasses until I found a pair I could read the print with...
But if you do have the insurance I feel it is just as dangerous. All these pharmaceutical companies inundate the world with more and more commercials for more new medicines they keep inventing. Somebody is getting rich off this stuff for sure. I love hearing about the side effects too, some of the stuff that is being peddled these days it seems like the cure is worse than the disease. Like giving amphetamines to kids with ADD...
Also maybe all these drugs can make us live longer but what is the price? There is a story by Aldous Huxley, the book is called 'After many a summer dies the swan' it's about what happens when medicine finally finds a way to make us live forever.
Death is a natural process, not something to be feared or hated. We don't know what lies out there, only if you have already crossed over can you know.
 
Like giving amphetamines to kids with ADD...
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Well Jen, not to get off topic here.. I can tell you what speed does to us folks with ADD...

Let me give you a little back ground info about ADD first.. ADD affects the frontal lobe of the brain.. Essentially the blood flow in this part of the brain in folks with ADD is lower than the average person.. What speed or other stimulants do, is increase the blood flow in that section of the brain.. Essentally, by me sucking back a couple of cups of coffee in short order, stimulates the blood flow to that section of my brain, and I can actually stay on subject, and not bounce around so drastically, essentially raiseing my concentration level .. The older I get, the more I have learned to compensate.. In some ways ADD has been a blessing and curse for me, I can do some things that would drive "normal" people nuts, but I can really drive normal people to the brink by jumping around in mid sentence without realizing it.. Oh look, a red shiney, rubber ball..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
This is off topic and I apologize Nanci. I agree Jen, Earl went to doc last month and now he has high bp which we knew, but now high cholesterol and his blood suger is a little high. Instead of saying what do you eat maybe we'll can alter your diet, they give him a pill for high chol. The man eats a jar of mayo a week, which he cut out and is now eating oatmeal as a snack. I got a little testy with the doc. Then Earl's whatever kicks in and he starts telling doc about a fall at work and how is back hurts kind of in his butt and numbness down the leg and shows doc his broken leg that didn't heal properly and how he puts an ace bandage on it......Doc does referal to ortho guy, great but no the referral is for his hip and the new swelling on his calf. His hip doesn't hurt and swelling has been there for 15 years, since he broke his leg. But the doc is insisstant he see ortho why, it will only cost us money we don't have and won't adress the numbness. Well we go back to GP this week maybe he'll send to a heart specialist for his headaches.
 
TandJ said:
Well Jen, not to get off topic here.. I can tell you what speed does to us folks with ADD...

Let me give you a little back ground info about ADD first.. ADD affects the frontal lobe of the brain.. Essentially the blood flow in this part of the brain in folks with ADD is lower than the average person.. What speed or other stimulants do, is increase the blood flow in that section of the brain.. Essentally, by me sucking back a couple of cups of coffee in short order, stimulates the blood flow to that section of my brain, and I can actually stay on subject, and not bounce around so drastically, essentially raiseing my concentration level .. The older I get, the more I have learned to compensate.. In some ways ADD has been a blessing and curse for me, I can do some things that would drive "normal" people nuts, but I can really drive normal people to the brink by jumping around in mid sentence without realizing it.. Oh look, a red shiney, rubber ball..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
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Eh, if anybody has been bouncing all over and getting off topic it is me... sorry Nanci! Guess I'm just chock full of opinionated blabberings tonight.
Anyway, I realize speed probably affects different people different ways, but it is still a bit shocking to me seeing it prescribed like that. What's to stop Mom from taking Junior's Adderall .. cue "Mother's Little Helper' by Rolling Stones.
 
What's to stop Mom from taking Junior's Adderall .. cue "Mother's Little Helper' by Rolling Stones.
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Nothing is going to stop Mom from taking Adderall.. Whats going to prevent any one from taking perscribed drugs? Nothing... What Government or Dr is going to stop someone bent on meeting thier end? Not one thing they can do.. I think what I am trying to say, is what might be a good rememdy for one person, could be an absolute poor thing for another to do.. Of course I know what alcohol does to me, and I am pretty certain you might not have had the same dealings with it as I did..

Of course I think Mothers little helper was Valium to calm her down before she went ballistic, and did something else she may have regretted..

Regards... Tim of T and J
 
Nanci said:
I believe Dr. Kervorkian's patients were terminally ill adults who were mentally competant and made the decision that they did not want to live in pain and suffering any longer. Why shouldn't a person have that right? Why shouldn't a person, who is going to die anyway, be able to die with dignity, at a time of their choosing? What business is it of anyone's to tell them, no, you have to suffer until your body finally gives out, even though you don't want to. If it weren't a crime, think of the peaceful deaths these people could have, with their family gathered around, able to say everything they had in their hearts, able to say goodbye in comfort.
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I agree with you completely and couldn't have said it any better myself.
 
http://tinyurl.com/ynvua4

There's a video interview with him in the paper (on line) this morning. I hate to say it, but he sounds like a whack job to me. He isn't going to be a very good spokesperson for his agenda. I thought he was going to talk about people, but he's going to talk about _his_ constitutional rights and how it's all a conspiracy...
 
Thats what eight years of mulling things over does for you..I can't imagine he had the people around him to give a well balanced debate.
MIKE
 
Nanci, I was wishing he was speaking closer to me so I could go and hear what he has to say. After seeing the video, I think I've heard enough. I don't like to listen to people who shout about government conspiracies and everyone is picking on me. I think there is a lot of good and bad in the world. But I don't think there is some big secret society out to get us.
 
I just watched the video. Although I am open to hearing about government abuse (I don't trust politicians any further than I could throw one!), his whole attitude and presentation makes it difficult to concentrate, and to take seriously, anything he is saying.

I can certainly understand bitterness if he feels he wasted 8 years for no reason. But that doesn't make it any easier consider his message seriously, or to want to listen to a whole speech if given in the same vein as the interview.
 
What I saw in that video was a very clever bit of editing. I think the actual interview was longer than what was shown, and the person doing the editing chose to show the bits where he (Kevorkian) was most agitated. Since I didn't see the whole thing I am unwilling to judge the man on this bit of footage. Yes he was agitated, I found it interesting though that most of the time we hear his answer but not the actual question. My guess is the reporter was kind of pushing his buttons a little. I still think the lecture would be interesting - Right or wrong, the man is definitely not afraid to say exactly what he thinks.
 
I did notice some sudden fading in or out from editing. I guess we will have to wait to hear from both pro and con members of the audience to determine if the speech was mostly well thought out and persuasive, or if it mostly had the tone of the interview. As you say, we can't judge the whole speech by little snippets of an edited interview.
 
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