HIBERNATION?

[StaceyBaybee]

I have just read on a caresheet 'How to hibernate your corn snake' and it explains how to make your snake go into hibernation for the winter. Are you suposed to do this?

 

[susang]

1. What care sheet told you to 'hibernate' you corn snake? 2. How old is your snake? susang

 

[ghosthousecorns]

No. Unless you are breeding your snakes there is no point in brumating (it's not hibernation BTW) and if you do brumate you should make sure you can keep the temps consistently cool. If it is comfortable for you in the house, it is probably too warm in there to be brumating snakes.

 

[bitsy]

No, you don't have to brumate. I've never brumated and mine are all fine (the oldest will be 20 this summer).

If you breed, then brumating has advantages; it apparently improves fertility and allows some control over when the Corns are ready to breed in the Spring.

Brumation is also helpful for those who have a large number of Corns, as it gives a few weeks of breathing space over the Winter when they don't have to be fed or cleaned out.

Corns brumate in the Winter in the wild, as there's very little food for them at that time of year. The advantage in that situation is that the Corns don't waste a lot of energy hunting, when they're unlikely to find food. Energy is the most important commodity for any cold-blooded animal. This isn't an issue in captivity, where we provide a reliable food supply all year round.

 

[Kokopelli]

Just wanted to say that lower temperatures are known improve the production of reproduction cells(aka sperm and eggs)
Take the male testicle sack, it is located in an external sack because the body's temperature is too intense, sperm cells get defected and die if they are stored in such temperatures- the temperature in the sack is usually 2 degrees(C) lower.
That's why it retracts if it's cold, to be closer to the body and maintain proper temperature.

Anywho, as far as I know that's the same thing for snakes, those degrees simply make the production of reproductive cells better and more efficient.

 

[wade]

Just wanted to say that lower temperatures are known improve the production of reproduction cells(aka sperm and eggs)
Take the male testicle sack, it is located in an external sack because the body's temperature is too intense, sperm cells get defected and die if they are stored in such temperatures- the temperature in the sack is usually 2 degrees(C) lower.
That's why it retracts if it's cold, to be closer to the body and maintain proper temperature.
.

Now wait a minute. I have raised snakes for a long time and have never seen an "external sack". How does he crawl around without rubbing it off?

 

[snakewispera snr]

Now wait a minute. I have raised snakes for a long time and have never seen an "external sack". How does he crawl around without rubbing it off?

:laugh01::laugh01::laugh01::laugh01::laugh01:
So thats why they call them ball pythons is is:rofl:
MIKE

 

[Drizzt80]

FWIW, while brumation is the proper terminology, 99% of society understands hibernation much more quickly. I've never had a conversation about brumation where I haven't also had to throw in the word hibernation for clarification. :shrugs: (See, even here!)

D80

 

[bitsy]

Take the male testicle sack, it is located in an external sack

Not in Corn Snakes it isn't. The only part of the male "apparatus" that can be extruded are the hemipenes, which are the sperm delivery system. And then that's only for the actual act of mating.

because the body's temperature is too intense, sperm cells get defected and die if they are stored in such temperatures- the temperature in the sack is usually 2 degrees(C) lower.

No, snakes are cold-blooded. Your post applies to mammals but not reptiles and has no bearing on either brumating in Corns or hibernation in mammals.

Hibernation/brumation evolved as a way of ensuring that species survive when they have no readily-available food source at set times of year. It's nothing to do with keeping eggs or sperm cool.

 

[Kokopelli]

For the love of God, I really hope you were joking!

I was referring to -human- testicles!!!

Naturally snakes have no sacks, and have no permanent body heat because they don't thermo-regulate.

Sorry for not stating it outright but it hit me as pretty darn obvious :laugh01:

 

[Kokopelli]

Okay okay, seeing as there was a major misunderstanding:

-mammals- have sacks, not reptiles. I was simply demonstrating that sperm cells(though different in traits and sizes operate on the same principle in all life forms that reproduce) require lower temperatures to be reproduced and survive.

 

[Kokopelli]

Sorry I have to disagree- at least present some proof to back up your statement that it has -nothing- to do with Spermatogenesis

Here's an article that supports my claim:

http://lllreptile.com/info/library/care-and-husbandry-articles/-/reptilian-brumation/

"Aside form serving as a survival tactic during seasonal weather fluctuations, brumation (and winter slowing in general) does have an affect on reptile reproduction. Please keep in mind that there are exceptions, but in general, cooler temperatures trigger the production of sperm in males, and prepares females fro ovulation in spring."


It is a -known- biological fact that each protein in our bodies works most effectively at some "optimal" degree and it -does- vary from one type of cell to the next. Our immune system actually works more efficiently when we're running a slight fever, for instance.

You can google for the terms, you will find more than one source that does state the brumation -does- have a role in fertility.
Naturally, at its core it's a survival technique- but it does serve other functions.

I will be more than happy if you correct me and explain why- if indeed I am wrong

 

[Drizzt80]

No, snakes are cold-blooded. Your post applies to mammals but not reptiles and has no bearing on either brumating in Corns or hibernation in mammals.

Or does it?! There's been much supposition about temperature and it's affect on the ability of females to retain sperm from one year to the next. Being able to retain sperm being affected by temperature may well have something to with males fertility as well. :shrugs:

D80

 

[Roy Munson]

Or does it?! There's been much supposition about temperature and it's affect on the ability of females to retain sperm from one year to the next. Being able to retain sperm being affected by temperature may well have something to with males fertility as well. :shrugs:

D80

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but this discussion got me thinking. Often, the retention of sperm from one season to the next can be an undesirable thing. I never thought about it before, but it would seem that if you kept a female at high (but not dangerous) temps for a few days in the weeks preceding brumation, you may eliminate the possibility. :shrugs:

 

[Drizzt80]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but this discussion got me thinking. Often, the retention of sperm from one season to the next can be an undesirable thing. I never thought about it before, but it would seem that if you kept a female at high (but not dangerous) temps for a few days in the weeks preceding brumation, you may eliminate the possibility. :shrugs:

That is exactly why I don't get too worked up when my snakes have a week or so of 90 temps through the summer (no air conditioning in my classroom). I've yet (knock on wood) to have any suspicions of sperm retention interfering with breeding results. :shrugs:

D80

 

[Kokopelli]

-possibly- but... the preservation mechanism is still being looked into because it is so inherently different than our own. Our own reproductive cells last a couple of days before dying- unless they are frozen, not something you can really do in the wild.

Their mechanism is different, they somehow can keep sperm alive. It's still an enigma, too much of an enigma to really theorize. I think that if indeed snake sperm is so hardy, I doubt high temperatures would destroy it- because by high temperatures we still are referring to temperatures in which the snakes can live and remain healthy :shrugs:

Sorry if I offended anyone but the answer caught me as a tad offensive, stating outright that I was just wrong. :shrugs:

 

[Drizzt80]

I think that if indeed snake sperm is so hardy, I doubt high temperatures would destroy it- because by high temperatures we still are referring to temperatures in which the snakes can live and remain healthy.

But, mammalian sperm needs to be cooler than survivable body temperatures. No reason why there isn't a limiting temperature for reptiles whereby the animal can survive but the reproductive seed cannot. Just as cooler temps may trigger their production, warmer temps may trigger their demise. :shrugs: Merely supposition on my part based on breeding observations . . . most notably decreased fertility in unbrumated males and no noticeable sperm retention in my females all of which have a heat spike during the summer.

D80

 

[Jcapicy]

Dean,

I don't think it's that far off topic. It might be worth researching.

On a lighter note, all of us guys can vouch for the effects cold can have on male mammals or at least humans!!!

I wonder what data we can pull from the forum users on the fertility rate of brumating vs not?

 

[Drizzt80]

I wonder what data we can pull from the forum users on the fertility rate of brumating vs not?

Depends on how many others are as anal about record keeping with their breeding routine as I am!!

D80

 

[Kokopelli]

But, mammalian sperm needs to be cooler than survivable body temperatures. No reason why there isn't a limiting temperature for reptiles whereby the animal can survive but the reproductive seed cannot. Just as cooler temps may trigger their production, warmer temps may trigger their demise. :shrugs: Merely supposition on my part based on breeding observations . . . most notably decreased fertility in unbrumated males and no noticeable sperm retention in my females all of which have a heat spike during the summer.

D80

Heck I didn't say you were -wrong-. I just think that in light of the fact that mammal sperm does not last unless frozen indicates a major difference, one which is enough to question how similiar those two are- if they are so vastly different when it comes to life-span, perhaps they are just as different when it comes to temperature?

Also noting that reptiles are, as far as I am aware at least, the only animals on earth that can preserve sperm in such a manner. Excluding insects perhaps, I am not well educated in that field.

Well it can certainly go both ways, you may be right and I may be right. Or it's something entirely different altogether.