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Feed only when looking for food? What are your opinons on this?

ghosthousecorns said:
A conservative feeding schedule is not "starving your snake thin". I disagree with this. If you feed too much the snake will get fat unless you can somehow exercise it enough to burn more calories than it consumes. Same way a person gets fat even if you exercise you have to burn more calories than you eat. If you got a fat snake you were absolutely feeding too much to begin with. Of course if you can exercise your snake a lot by handling, it's good for them and helps with muscle tone. But when you have a lot of animals this is not always feasible, do you think Rich Z or Don Soderberg handles all their snakes every day and makes little jungle gyms for them?
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Absolutely. Here's an adult male corn fed at 2-3 week intervals on adult mice. 510 grams. Does he look like I'm starving him?
 

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I often do this with my snakes. I've experimented with feeding every which way. Unfortunately when you try to get a female up to size fast, people often reintroduce food as soon as the digestive system can handle it. Corns are inactive while they are digesting and I've seen many people make the mistake of offering food the same day the snake becomes to be active again. I cringe when I hear people are feeding yearlings and two year olds every five days. Sure they will grow faster but they will also have an increased risk for egg binding.
Feeding once a week usually gives the snake enough time to digest and still have a few active days, but I like to take it a step further by skipping a feeding every 4-6 weeks. This gives them a whole week of searching and they still grow to breeding size by the age of 3 with no problems. In my experience I'd be more inclined to breed a 250 gram 2 year old fed on this program, than breeding a 400 gram 2 year old that has been pumped full of food. A snake that is underweight and fit will fair better passing eggs than a snake that is heavier but has no good muscle tone. That being said, if you don't have a lot of years of breeding under your belt make sure you follow the 3 years, 3 feet, 300 gram rule.
 
If you got one that's a little round cutting back a bit is fine, but if it's not active it has poor muscle tone. You can tell if it has poor tone or not by handling it.
So, you'd starve a snake with poor muscle tone thin? You know what I'm talking about.
If you have hundreds of snakes you know better than allow them to get this way. Fix the husbandry issue that's causing the inactivity/poor muscle tone, then handle them to get them active again. If your husbandry is good, they will be active and you won't need to. Older snakes sometimes get fat and lazy (But not all of them.), same as people, but those snakes are eventually not fit for breeding because of poor muscle tone. They still make fine pets with proper care. If you know a snake is obese it's your fault it got this way. Handle him a few minutes a day, and it will be better soon.
 
No, I'd never starve a snake. Don't mistake the schedule that most humans have put their snakes on as what's natural and healthy nor should you believe that deviating from that equals starving.
 
caz223 said:
So, you'd starve a snake with poor muscle tone thin?
If you have hundreds of snakes you know better than allow them to get this way. Fix the husbandry issue that's causing the inactivity/poor muscle tone, then handle them to get them active again. If your husbandry is good, they will be active and you won't need to. Older snakes sometimes get fat and lazy (But not all of them.), same as people, but those snakes are eventually not fit for breeding because of poor muscle tone. They still make fine pets with proper care. If you know a snake is obese it's your fault it got this way. Handle him a few minutes a day, and it will be better soon.
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I really don't imagine Carol would ever starve one of her snakes. Out of curiosity, how many snakes do you have? Do you actually think the breeders with hundreds of snakes could realistically handle them every day.
 
You know the difference between a snake that's a little round and a snake with poor muscle tone.
Big breeders know more than anyone the dangers of having poor muscle tone in their snakes, I don't need to explain it.
If you have hundreds of snakes you know better than to let them get this way.
 
caz223 said:
You know the difference between a snake that's a little round and a snake with poor muscle tone.
Big breeders know more than anyone the dangers of having poor muscle tone in their snakes, I don't need to explain it.
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And a snake actively exploring it's viv will improve its muscle tone.
 
Right, all you need to do is snap the little critter out of his inactivity. When you put him back he'll be active for a while on his own.
If he's actively exploring his viv, not just hanging out in his hide all day then he's fine.
You know your snakes well enough to know whether they're active or not.
I'm just saying that starving them is not always the best option.
 
caz223 said:
Right, all you need to do is snap the little critter out of his inactivity. When you put him back he'll be active for a while on his own.
If he's actively exploring his viv, not just hanging out in his hide all day then he's fine.
You know your snakes well enough to know whether they're active or not.
I'm just saying that starving them is not always the best option.
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I do not starve my snakes. I resent your implications.
 
You are right, I do know better than to allow them to get that way. Skipping a meal every 4-6 weeks works perfectly for growing them at a decent pace while maintaining good muscle tone. This is not starving, and I highly recommend that any adult corn that is not a female breeder should not be fed on a weekly basis.
How many snakes in the wild do you think eat every Tuesday?
This sort of reasoning is why so many people have 30lb Chihuahuas. Just because they are looking for food does not mean they are starving.
 
Did I accuse you?
When?
When 10 people chime in on a thread, unless one person actively addresses another, it's not an accusation.
Why so defensive?
I've never seen your snakes, and I don't know you. Why would I accuse you of anything?
 
I'm just saying that starving them is not always the best option.
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And most of us are saying feeding on a more conservative schedule is NOT starving them.
If I had to guess I would say most people feed too much. It's because they have good intentions but it's not always what is best for the snakes.
You can definitely think you are doing what is best for an animal and overdo it. It's kinda like when you kill a houseplant because you watered it every day and did not let the soil dry out in between waterings. I always worry when I see posters freaking out about "underfeeding" as new keepers tend to overfeed anyway. Hopefully some of the people who read this will realize the advice coming from Carol and Janine is coming from people who have great credentials and reputations.
 
I think the problem here is that we can't hear each others' tone of voice.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything.
When I temper one piece of advice with a caution of not just starving a snake thin, but make sure it's active enough-some people take it personally and attack me.
It wasn't an attack.
If you know your snakes are healthy, why take it personally?
I think we actually agree on this, but we're seeing different points of view.
I'm taking a break from this. Have a good day all.
 
diamondlil said:
I said implications not accusations
'you'd starve a snake with poor muscle tone thin'. Perhaps you meant Carol, perhaps it was a general 'you'.
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Why would I accuse Carol of anything? I don't know her, either.
Please put down your pitchforks, I'm not accusing or implying anything.
 
You-the people reading this. It isn't addressed to anyone in particular.
Y'all. It's to encourage discussion. Don't take it personally, it wasn't meant that way. GOOD GRIEF!!!
 
caz223 said:
You-the people reading this. It isn't addressed to anyone in particular.
Y'all.
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Ok.........but it just didn't read that way, straight after a couple of people explained adjusting feeding schedules to prevent excessive weight gain in corns. I'd contend that feeding any adult corn weekly, unless it's a breeding female or it's had recent weight loss, would be an unhealthy practice no matter how much handling the snake got. And daily handling isn't feasible either, snakes handled while they're digesting are prone to regurges.
 
Caz, you seem to have gone back and edited most of your posts, which makes having a discussion a little difficult.
 
This is a public forum, meant for discussion. Everything is public, the royal 'we' and 'y'all' always applies, unless I quoted you directly in a post.
Did I quote you?
I edit my posts as I type, once they've been replied to they are set in stone.
I didn't go back and edit anything.
If anything was edited AFTER a reply, I use EDIT marks and lines of stars like this
*****EDITED******
edited content
*****EDITED******
 
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