Picky boa?

[Hypancistrus]

My Hog Isle boa has been a picky eater from day 1 (got her in September). She only accepted f/t mice twice. After that she shunned them. I went to live hoppers, which she would take after about 30 minutes of watching them... I'm seriously not lying about the time. She is SLOW. I've never seen or heard of a boa acting this way. I had to try her on a rat pup once when they were out of hoppers and she took that faster so I thought... maybe she likes rats better? Tried f/t rat the next week... nope. The house snake got an extra snack. She has been eating live rat fuzzies ever since (this was December).

Her temps are 70 on the cool side and 83 surface, 87 just below the surface on the warm side. She rarely goes to the warm side of her tank, preferring instead to burrow or hide inside her fake cave on the cool side. Tara is keeping Leonard, her hopeful future mate, and says he also rarely ventures to the warmer side of his tank.

She consistently takes live rat pinks or fuzzies at this point, but I just cannot stand feeding her live... I really, really want to get her back on f/t.

Is there anything I can do? She had a live rat fuzzy on Monday of last week. I tried a f/t mouse tonight, and she refused to touch it... didn't even seem interested in it. Should I try a f/t rat pink or fuzz later this week? Early next? I really don't know what else to do with her.

 

[Tula_Montage]

My boas are the complete opposite, they rarley come off the heat. I do feel your temps are a bit low. The ambient in my boa cages and tubs never drops below 75 on the cool end and 80 on the hot end with a 90-92 hot spot. Boas really do like to hug the heat in my experience, and 83 surface seems quite low to me. Perhaps the lethargy and lack of feeding response is down to being too cool. Up the temps and see if there is any marked different in activity

 

[Hypancistrus]

My boas are the complete opposite, they rarley come off the heat. I do feel your temps are a bit low. The ambient in my boa cages and tubs never drops below 75 on the cool end and 80 on the hot end with a 90-92 hot spot. Boas really do like to hug the heat in my experience, and 83 surface seems quite low to me. Perhaps the lethargy and lack of feeding response is down to being too cool. Up the temps and see if there is any marked different in activity

Well here's the thing... I used to keep a heat lamp on her cage in the daytime. I do for my ball python and he seems to enjoy basking, so I thought... hmm, boa might too. But even then she never strayed to the cool side. Perhaps I will try adding the heat lamp again. Maybe it will help.

I also switched her hides around-- put the rock hide on the warm side. See if she is curled up in that tomorrow. If she is, I will pick up a matching hide so she won't have to choose between her "preferred" hide and temperature.

She eats and poos fine otherwise... *shakes head*

 

[Tula_Montage]

Have you got a picture of her enclosure? I have always raised baby boas in plastic tubs as opposed to putting them in open vivs with substrate and all that palava. It just distracts them when feeding time comes, and I assume you would need to remove her from her viv. I would rather house a baby boa in too small a tub, than too big an enclosure.

How do you feed her? Do you take her out and put her in a separate tub? How warm is the prey item? How do you offer it to her ie with tongs, dangling down, holding the prey item behind the neck or just leaving it for her to find? I have has snakes that prefer to strike a prey item from the side, so dangling was a good way of offering. Another others who much preferred going for the face, so holding it horizontally in front of them so they could just grab the face got the best response. It's just about gauging her reaction and seeing what gets her excited about food. Can you remember anything you did differently when she ate those few times?

I find my boas like to eat in their own houses, therefore I use newspaper substrate. I also find they have an insane feeding response if I offer piping hot prey items (ie they usually jump out the box at me). I can't for the life of me convert my Corn Isles to rats, but they are the most insane feeders on the planet when mooses are around.

When I was gifted Raine as a non feeder, I got her to eat the first night. It took me 20 mins of tickling her sides with a piping hot prey item for her to realise it was food, and she ate no problem. Over the next few weeks her reactions started getting quicker and more agressive as I had to wind her up with food. Now she tackles mice like theres no tomorrow. You would never know she was such a sporadic feeder before I got her.

 

[jenneses]

I've had the same problems with my two hog's. One breeder told me to lower the heat to 85 on the hot side and to offer smaller prey items than I would for a columbian of the same size. So I'm going to try that, because at this point I'm desperate.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Have you got a picture of her enclosure?

I can take a pic and upload it tomorrow. It's a 20 long with aspen and LOTS of hides for her.

How do you feed her? Do you take her out and put her in a separate tub? How warm is the prey item? How do you offer it to her ie with tongs, dangling down, holding the prey item behind the neck or just leaving it for her to find? ... Can you remember anything you did differently when she ate those few times?

I happen to have a good memory. The first time she ate F/T, I dangled, in her viv, with newspaper substrate. The 2nd time, I removed her from her viv, put her in a feed box and dangled and she refused. I layed the mouse in with her and she eventually ate it. All subsequent f/t attempts have been a failure.

I've had the same problems with my two hog's. One breeder told me to lower the heat to 85 on the hot side and to offer smaller prey items than I would for a columbian of the same size. So I'm going to try that, because at this point I'm desperate.

I am sorry to hear that. Is she eating live? Mine at least will eat... just not what I want her to eat.

BTW... added a daytime heat lamp today... gets the surface temp up to around 90* F... guess I need a larger bulb....

 

[jenneses]

I am sorry to hear that. Is she eating live? Mine at least will eat... just not what I want her to eat.

I haven't tried live for either one yet, mostly because neither were fed live in the past, but also because Eddie has eaten f/t for me two times and it's only I haven't had Sha for 30 days yet, so I've only offered 4 times. But if neither of them eat their gutted, f/t, piping hot rat pinks tonight, next feeding will be live. I only hope they actually eat it, because if they don't what do I do with the poor baby rats?

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Have you tried doing a small (like hopper size) fresh killed, followed quickly by a f/t of the same size? She may just like the smell of the live better than the smell of the f/t.

 

[Jynx]

I don't think your temps are that bad to be honest. That is a wonderful gradient. In my experience, they tend to like a cooler temp range than their mainland cousins... a hot spot of about 90 works well for them. One thing that really reaches out and grabs me is that if they are both sticking to the cool side, then there is probably a reason for it. While most people would expect a Hog Isle's requirements to be much like a run of the mill BCI, I've noticed that they tend to take on much different likes and dislikes. My Hogs were almost an exact opposite of my other boas, which at times was frustrating. They are quirky little guys though, and sometimes you have to bend to their quirks... but hey, that can be just about any snake.

Since you took the basking lamps off, what has the light cycle been like? Is the lighting they receive mostly natural light and house lights? If you have a window in their vicinity, I'm willing to bet they are feeding off the light cycle. It is peak breeding season, and even for one so young (even a female), I would bet money that they are reacting to the lights, though they may not know why. Boas are very sensitive to light cycling. Remember that they hail from a place that has almost no season change. Whereas we often have to go to great lengths to simulate winter for our American colubrids, boas don't need so large of a push. This is definitely a difficult time for making sense of the eating habits of large constrictors.

If you saw more activity when the basking light was set up, then I would suggest putting it back up. The described listlessness seems to be a symptom of what she thinks is "seasonal" change, and I believe that you will once again see activity if you add the light back into the picture. All of my boas have access to basking lights, and if I slack for even a day, I notice the effects. This is especially evident in my big male Dojah. Then again, we've been together for years, and I can predict his habits like clockwork.

Once you add the light, back off for a little bit. You are adding a change to her habitat and while it may be something she missed, its best not to overwhelm her... she is still a baby. It is very possible that switching things around so often to find something she will eat is causing more stress. Hogs are known for their gluttony once they are comfortable, so let her be comfortable 1st... the rest will come later.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Have you tried doing a small (like hopper size) fresh killed, followed quickly by a f/t of the same size? She may just like the smell of the live better than the smell of the f/t.

Robbie... that's not even an option for me. No way I could kill the mouse first... unless I gave it to another snake... getting it back would be hard!

I don't think your temps are that bad to be honest. That is a wonderful gradient...Since you took the basking lamps off, what has the light cycle been like? Is the lighting they receive mostly natural light and house lights? If you have a window in their vicinity, I'm willing to bet they are feeding off the light cycle.

Jynx, thank you for the lengthy post. I am pretty sure that Elle keeps Hog Isles, or has in the past, but I value your input as well. My snakes are kept in my basement herp room. There is a small window (12" x 18"?) above her cage, with a white curtain. The room gets SOME ambient light, but this is tempered by the porch over the window, and the location of it... hard to explain but suffice to say... little real light.

Sooo.... all my reptiles, for the most part, have a strip light of some sort over their tank, that is set to run about 10 hours of the day, give or take a few minutes.

There are other tanks in the room on 12 hour cycles... my marine nano reef most noticeably. I am not sure what impact this might have on her. When she ate the two f/t mice, she was in the BACK of the basement, which has very little ambient light. She was still on a 10 hour cycle for light with a small strip light then, but now that I think... she may have gone "off feed" when I moved her from the back of the room... perhaps I should switch her and one of the 20L's in the back??

 

[Jynx]

If I were you, I would put her back in the conditions that she was originally eating in. Young boas are pretty hardy, but they are also susceptible to stress as well. As you've noticed by now, small changes can definitely impact them greatly... they are creatures of habit.

You will want to stick with more of a 12 to 14 hour light cycle with her definitely. I wouldn't remove her from her viv to eat at all at this point. While generally speaking, its always great to get them into the habit of learning that a hand coming into their viv doesn't not always mean dinner, she's obviously shown signs of distress so I would work on making sure she's comfortable enough first before trying to teach her new habits.

And thanks for feeding my ego. Its nice to know that sometimes, we get noticed in Elle's shadow every once in a while Hog Isle's are definitely an absolute joy to have, and I wish you much luck with her in the future.

 

[Hypancistrus]

You will want to stick with more of a 12 to 14 hour light cycle with her definitely. I wouldn't remove her from her viv to eat at all at this point. While generally speaking, its always great to get them into the habit of learning that a hand coming into their viv doesn't not always mean dinner, she's obviously shown signs of distress so I would work on making sure she's comfortable enough first before trying to teach her new habits.

So what should I do once I move her?? I can't get her back into her original spot because my wolffish tank is there now, but I can get her close....

But should I keep going with live for a few more weeks? Or start pushing f/t more?

She is very hissy as well and I feel like I should handle her more, but at the same time I don't want to add stress to her and cause her to go off feed more... so I really try not to bug her. Is this okay?

I will read your answer tomorrow... it is freakin 12:30 and I NEED to force myself to go to bed.... lol

 

[Jynx]

At this point, handling is probably not a good idea. If she's hissy now, then she'll still be hissy in a couple weeks. However, she may not be eating great then if you handle her. Allow her to reaffirm her surroundings and be comfortable. There's nothing more detrimental to a snake (especially boids) than being uncomfortable in its own house. Its got to be her sanctuary. If her original spot in your basement is not available, then I'm sure that where she is will be fine. What you want to worry about more is the condition of her habitat inside her tank, not surrounding it. Inside is most likely where she will spend the majority of her time (hopefully )

Any kind of habitat change can be a big deal if the snake is timid enough to allow it to be, which from the sound of it she is. Give her enough time to acclimate to the change. It may sound silly, but its best to treat even a small environment change as if you were uprooting her entire dwelling. Often, small changes can seems like just that to snake that lacks a little in the confidence department. I would even wait for about 10 to 14 days to offer her anything to eat. When you do, I would give f/t another shot. Offer it to her gently... let her feel like she has control of the situation. While I'm not one to coddle timidness in my snakes, patience is definitely the most rewarded attribute when dealing with situations like these. I've been known to play "chase the mouse" for great lengths of time with many an unsure baby.

Some snakes are definitely set in their ways though, and none of the advice you've been given may work. It all may work... there's no way to know for sure. Unfortunately, its up to the pretty little girl. Obviously, her eating is more important than changing her eating habits to suit us keepers. Generally speaking, reptiles grow confidence as they age (for the most part... some are just impossible). I think its safe to say that you can pretty much expect that she will more than likely grow out of these habits as she grows herself. Just be patient with her... winning her over may or may not be easy, and you might have to try every possible trick and then some. If nothing else, it will definitely promote a bond between you two.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Robbie... that's not even an option for me. No way I could kill the mouse first... unless I gave it to another snake... getting it back would be hard!

If you're getting the live from a pet store/reptile shop, if you ask for a sleeper/pre-killed, most of the time, they'll do it for you. That's how I've been doing it for the past 8 months or so.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Well good news! It took a lot of patience (mostly on Tara's part-- I am nearly devoid of it most days) but Selena FINALLY took a F/T rat pup today. We wiggled, jiggled... she hissed... tried to remove Tara's face... eventually I turned the light off on her and left the rat right in front of her face, unmoving. We went on feeding everyone else and eventually I looked in and she had her mouth around it, and then, she swallowed! Woot!!

She's still nasty as all get out. I left Sonja a note on her door at iHerp... if she's this nasty as a 6 footer, I am so slipping her in Sonja's car window at a herp show and running!