yet another fine example

[KJUN]

I got her Robbie.

The thing that is scary is that somebody is going to make those decisions for you. Maybe they won’t like the color of your hair or the state your parents were born in. It will make sense to them, maybe not you and I.

...or maybe it'll be based on something as simple on how you are registered to vote. Nothing ensures re-election like letting the opponents die off preferentially.

So, to those that support it, we've read that people in favor of this encourage suicide of the elderly to save money, not providing medical benefits to people who won't be completely healthy afterwards, race will matter (this IS discrimination against whites), savings will be robbed to pay for your - and others - treatments if you have savings (how is it health care if you pay full price for all of the services, anyway?, and many more people will be fired or greatly reduced in hours and/or pay because employers can't afford this.

Those are the things I don't like. Again, I ask, what parts do you support? Not "I want to help people," but what parts do you think WILL help people? ...and, how do you think it will be a "good medical system" with our .gov's track record. Name one thing they got so heavily into that was improved. Name one thing at all!

As if everything isn't bad enough, now this administration seems to be actually considering the passage of the Performance Tax? Can that be real! Hmmm, maybe they plan to only tax non-minority radio stations with a tendency to vote Republican? Just maybe, eh?

Let's look at taxes. Nobama said no tax increase on the middle class, but they are planning to increase taxes on everything we use: sodas, steaks, music(?), vehicles, etc. - what HAVEN'T they tried or talked about taxing more. That SOUNDS like I'll be paying more taxes, won't it? Oh, and now they said to likely expect an income tax increase on the middle class, anyway. Heck, I suspect they'll charge you a tax for filing an income tax return - which is mandatory - next....or a tax payment tax.....

 

[Hypancistrus]

I was also pretty frightened of the part that said that a 25 year old will receive priority over a 65 year old.

How can I look at my 80 year old grandma and say to her "Yes, my life is worth more than yours."

How can you put a value on life? Any life, any age, gender or whatever other descriptor you want to add, is valuable and worth saving.

I should also add, FWIW, that I did vote for Obama this past election, however, I was not in support of his ideas on health care (or Clinton's either, for that matter). What really sank the election for me were two things. 1) Sarah Palin is scary as crap, and as feeble as McCain is I could not have voted him in to die and have her become president, and 2) gay rights... but Eric covered my feelings on that currently with an earlier post.

 

[ceduke]

I was also pretty frightened of the part that said that a 25 year old will receive priority over a 65 year old.

How can I look at my 80 year old grandma and say to her "Yes, my life is worth more than yours."

How can you put a value on life? Any life, any age, gender or whatever other descriptor you want to add, is valuable and worth saving.

I agree 1000x....I've always hated the line of thinking that youth makes someone's life more valuable.

 

[Michael823]

I was also pretty frightened of the part that said that a 25 year old will receive priority over a 65 year old.

How can I look at my 80 year old grandma and say to her "Yes, my life is worth more than yours."

How can you put a value on life? Any life, any age, gender or whatever other descriptor you want to add, is valuable and worth saving.

I absolutely agree, if anyone deserves it most, than it is the older generation. They sacrificed much more for a quality of life than many of us younger people, and should be given optimum health care. It is also sick that someone believes irreversibly disabled people should receive less care too, quality of life isn't a right that only some people should get.
My brother had to have back surgery to treat a 90 degree angle of his spine, the procedure was like a million dollar procedure, or some huge figure like that. He applied for a grant which ended up covering it, thank god, but I don't see how anyone that requires such desperate treatment could be denied. And if it weren't for the grant, who knows what would've happened.

 

[Hypancistrus]

I absolutely agree, if anyone deserves it most, than it is the older generation. They sacrificed much more for a quality of life than many of us younger people, and should be given optimum health care.

I guess what bothers me is I don't think ANYONE deserves to live more than the next person.

(Well I take that back, if he hadn't shot himself, I'd happily have run over the jerk who shot up my beloved VT with my truck)

It is also sick that someone believes irreversibly disabled people should receive less care too, quality of life isn't a right that only some people should get.

Agreed... but this doctor is one of the advisors to this health care plan. How can we support something in which the people advising have such off-the-wall thoughts?

 

[Michael823]

I guess what bothers me is I don't think ANYONE deserves to live more than the next person.

(Well I take that back, if he hadn't shot himself, I'd happily have run over the jerk who shot up my beloved VT with my truck)

I meant if there was anyone who needed it most, it would be the older generations, as they have a full life of sacrifice and hard work, and deserve the utmost in medical care.

"(Well I take that back, if he hadn't shot himself, I'd happily have run over the jerk who shot up my beloved VT with my truck)"

Sorry to sound nosy, what is a VT?

 

[KJUN]

How can I look at my 80 year old grandma and say to her "Yes, my life is worth more than yours."

Don't worry - they will tell her that during the "end of life council" many times for you. I'm pretty sure that the plan will be to DRILL it into our elderly over and over.


Soooo, I've seen supporters of the health care agree with parts they do NOT like and I've seen them say they like it because "it will help the poor," but I have yet to see anyone who supports it give even a single specific example of something in it that they DO like or something that will specifically help the poor more than they are getting already. Remember, it isn't like they are getting away, and Bush's health care reform is already responsible for people getting a LOT more .gov-funded benefits than ever before...without destroying private health care in the process. Why, why, why??????

.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Sorry to sound nosy, what is a VT?

Virginia Tech. I lost two friends there and I'd pull the trigger on that arse myself.

 

[starsevol]

You know Lauren, as scary as Palin is, I am finding this healthcare reform bill scarier and scarier the more I know about it. To me, Palin is cotton candy and ice cream compared to what I am hearing about this bill, and I pray it doesn't pass.

I really liked neither candidate the last election and voted for who I percieved as the lesser of 2 evils, but the whole time I'm looking at the 4 of them and thinking "THESE are my choices?" "Is THIS the best we could do?"

It would be ironic and awful if it ended up passing due to disabled and misguided people (like Ricky), and then they are the first to be denied care.....

 

[Hypancistrus]

You know Lauren, as scary as Palin is, I am finding this healthcare reform bill scarier and scarier the more I know about it. To me, Palin is cotton candy and ice cream compared to what I am hearing about this bill, and I pray it doesn't pass.

I don't know if I can agree with that. At least THIS bill is being conceived of by men, and therefore can be attacked, modified, changed and fought by men.

Did you ever see the "God favors my oil pipeline speech" Sarah Palin gave to her congregation? If there's one thing I learned a long time ago, it's that you can't argue with the "Word of God," and that was my fear with her... she would push stuff through by using that. In addition, I knew she would be very hostile towards us gays, because clearly God hates gays so she should too. No... as scary as this is, I think having her running 'round the White House would be scarier.

I really liked neither candidate the last election and voted for who I percieved as the lesser of 2 evils, but the whole time I'm looking at the 4 of them and thinking "THESE are my choices?" "Is THIS the best we could do?"

I know the feeling... it's astonishing how bad the choices have really been since I started voting in 2000. I've always felt like I am choosing the lesser of two evils.

It would be ironic and awful if it ended up passing due to disabled and misguided people (like Ricky), and then they are the first to be denied care.....

I was thinking that too, when reading that article.

 

[KJUN]

Did you ever see the "God favors my oil pipeline speech" Sarah Palin gave to her congregation? If there's one thing I learned a long time ago, it's that you can't argue with the "Word of God," and that was my fear with her... she would push stuff through by using that. In addition, I knew she would be very hostile towards us gays, because clearly God hates gays so she should too. No... as scary as this is, I think having her running 'round the White House would be scarier.

But you wouldn't have had a Congress and executive office for the same insane party acting like they can do whatever they what without opposition portraying the attitude that the people's wishes (especially those of taxpayers) can be ignored as long as they have the ability to BUY votes with free money (that isn't theirs) and washboard people with a great "confidence man" in office. The best possible scenario, I think, is to have opposite parties in charge of our two "main" branches. I really didn't see the Republicans treating certain minorities worse than they already were (or better for that matter), but I saw the democrats treating ALL of us worse....... In essence, what has happens is that now some gay couples (sorry if I use the wrong terminology through ignorance and not through an intention to offend) can now get health care together, but the health care won't be worth squat for anyone at all. Some gain.

I was thinking that too, when reading that article.

The conman ALWAYS wins if they are able to find a mark to buy the quack medicine they are selling. This time, however, the medicine is poison for all of us....and our country may be in the process of taking an overdose.

 

[queztacoatl]

Not to de-rail this conversation, but for everyone who is saying that Obama sucks because he's putting us further into debt...Does anyone stop to think that Bush put us into a huge debt with his made up war? Or the fact that with Clinton we were making money back? Obama is at least spending money on trying to help peoples' lives, not destroying them. Just my 2 cents. Also for the people who think he's not "American", you're probably the same people who didn't vote for him because he's a "muslim" and therefore a "terrorist".

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Not to de-rail this conversation, but for everyone who is saying that Obama sucks because he's putting us further into debt...Does anyone stop to think that Bush put us into a huge debt with his made up war? Or the fact that with Clinton we were making money back? Obama is at least spending money on trying to help peoples' lives, not destroying them. Just my 2 cents. Also for the people who think he's not "American", you're probably the same people who didn't vote for him because he's a "muslim" and therefore a "terrorist".

In 100 days, he put us further in debt than Bush did in 8 years. Did I approve of anything Bush did? Not really. Do I approve of getting further in debt to bring us back out? Not in the least. Before long, China's going to own the rights to the US because we can't pay back all the money they've loaned us.

 

[starsevol]

Not to de-rail this conversation, but for everyone who is saying that Obama sucks because he's putting us further into debt...Does anyone stop to think that Bush put us into a huge debt with his made up war? Or the fact that with Clinton we were making money back? Obama is at least spending money on trying to help peoples' lives, not destroying them. Just my 2 cents. Also for the people who think he's not "American", you're probably the same people who didn't vote for him because he's a "muslim" and therefore a "terrorist".

You do know that Obama has spent MORE in his 8 months in office than Bush spent in his entire 8 years, don't you?

 

[KJUN]

Not to de-rail this conversation, but for everyone who is saying that Obama sucks because he's putting us further into debt...Does anyone stop to think that Bush put us into a huge debt with his made up war? Or the fact that with Clinton we were making money back? Obama is at least spending money on trying to help peoples' lives, not destroying them. Just my 2 cents. Also for the people who think he's not "American", you're probably the same people who didn't vote for him because he's a "muslim" and therefore a "terrorist".

I didn't vote for him because he is red. That's it - I don't like commies or socialists.

Obama still has us in that mess, and we are spending half a million dollars a minute on "his war"...and more soldiers are dying under him there now than under Bush 5 years ago. Where are the protesters? The democrats that were up in arms about the war and war spending under Bush don't seem to mind even MORE of the same under Obama. If Bush really DID make up this war (he did not), why is it OK for Obama to make it up larger? Clinton did well because of Reaganomics. Except maybe for Lincoln, Obama has done more to change the face of this country than any other president in so short amount of time. The difference is that Lincoln was done to - and he tried to save the union. Obama's actions are plainly being done BY him and they seem more designed to DESTROY America: hyperinflation, welfare state, excessive taxation, control of private enterprises, etc. I can't think of one major thing Obama has done that has actually worked in any other country, so I can't see why it is expected to work here...unless his goal, as I suspect, is to reduce America's standing in the world's economy instead of protecting it.

 

[KJUN]

remember......Congress voted down an amendment to ObamaCare saying that members of Congress would have to be on it - like you and I - and it was killed immediately. Obama doesn't want the crappy, rationed, care he is forcing on you. Congress doesn't want it - they don't want to cease getting care because they are unhealthy or old. They want a DOCTOR making decisions about their care - not a committee somewhere.

It isn't good enough - or liveable enough - for them or theirs...but they are forcing it down YOUR throat. That's what Obama wants for his little Oabamicins.

 

[Ricky87]

It would be ironic and awful if it ended up passing due to disabled and misguided people (like Ricky), and then they are the first to be denied care.....

I was thinking that too, when reading that article.

Yes, irony depleting disabled people of their only chance of a healthy life is the best to watch from up on your high-horse. I already have medicaid and I'm hoping for health-care for those who have it rougher than me. Sorry I care about people living rough, I see now how selfish most are!.

 

[Hypancistrus]

But you wouldn't have had a Congress and executive office for the same insane party acting like they can do whatever they what without opposition portraying the attitude that the people's wishes (especially those of taxpayers) can be ignored as long as they have the ability to BUY votes with free money (that isn't theirs) and washboard people with a great "confidence man" in office. The best possible scenario, I think, is to have opposite parties in charge of our two "main" branches. I really didn't see the Republicans treating certain minorities worse than they already were (or better for that matter), but I saw the democrats treating ALL of us worse....... In essence, what has happens is that now some gay couples (sorry if I use the wrong terminology through ignorance and not through an intention to offend) can now get health care together, but the health care won't be worth squat for anyone at all. Some gain.

Like I said... lesser of two evils, but still inherently evil. I want the government to stay out of my bedroom, period. It's none of their business what I do there, with whom. I can't vote for someone who I feel will go there.



But to bring this back to the point, it seems like many of us are a bit freaked by the health care proposal. Is there anything we can do to ensure that it does not pass? We beat down HR 669 and strong armed some modifications to the python bill just this past week.

What can we do for this?

 

[Hypancistrus]

Yes, irony depleting disabled people of their only chance of a healthy life is the best to watch from up on your high-horse. I already have medicaid and I'm hoping for health-care for those who have it rougher than me. Sorry I care about people living rough, I see now how selfish most are!.

Did you read the article re: this health care plan?? Those were the words of the advisors to this plan... not myself or Bethany.........

In fact both of us said via our statements that we think it would suck if the people cut off from this bill are the ones who need healthcare the most i.e. the disabled and the elderly....

Are you just trying to find ways to be offended?

 

[KJUN]

Yes, irony depleting disabled people of their only chance of a healthy life is the best to watch from up on your high-horse. I already have medicaid and I'm hoping for health-care for those who have it rougher than me. Sorry I care about people living rough, I see now how selfish most are!.

Do you realize how completely nonsensical your entire post reads? It's YOUR savior, Obama and his administration, that is saying the more disabled should be cut off before the otherwise healthy ones - not us. Look at all the good Bush did for health care for the "underprivileged," and see that he did NOT have a policy to limit it to just the healthy.

We are saying this health care plan is bad BECAUSE it cuts off those people: his administration is the one saying not to give it to them.

Again, you have this fairy tale perfect scenario idea in your mind (that is impossible) and assume that Obama is gonna make it happen no matter how much his own people say they are going to screw you....and screw you some more.

Again I ask, what specific part is actually going to help any of the less fortunate?