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Studies on dog behavior!

KJUN said:
OK, this isn't a "rule," but it should be common sense: If you are having your unsupported ideas attacked on one thread, don't be surprised if they are attacked on a new thread started on almost the exact same topic. Not to lower myself to the level of a high school kid, but, "duh!"
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My feeling is that the interest in Dog Training was much greater than my brother would have taught, and since people took qualm with him posting it in Drizzt's thread, he figured it would be best to start his own. His links had nothing to do with devices at all, and were just observations on general dog behavior. He's trying to become a certified trainer and saw it as an opportunity to help his fellow members. There was no maliciousness and advice was a plenty, but unfortunately once this thread overshadowed Drizzt's there became a bit of resentment. If it could stay on track as just a "Dog Advice" thread it would benefit us all, don't you agree?.
 
I am still waiting on an answer/reply to this:

mike17l said:
You make mention of "failure" or "set backs", how would you, using only "positive reinforcement", train a dog to not go up to a rattlesnake? In South Texas, Western Diamondbacks are very prevalent, it is essential to the life of the dog that they do not put their face (or other body part) in a rattlesnake's strike zone. The only way I have ever effectively seen a dog learn to flee from a rattlesnake is with the use of an e-collar and negative reinforcement. Now I am not going to say that I have seen more dogs trained than you, because well that would be arrogant of me, but I will say that I have seen many many dogs trained to avoid snakes, as well as I have trained many dogs to avoid snakes. The fact is, the only effective way to "snake break" a dog is with the use of an e-collar. A rattlesnake will very rarely give a dog a second chance.
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Ricky87 said:
My feeling is that the interest in Dog Training was much greater than my brother would have taught, and since people took qualm with him posting it in Drizzt's thread, he figured it would be best to start his own. His links had nothing to do with devices at all, and were just observations on general dog behavior. He's trying to become a certified trainer and saw it as an opportunity to help his fellow members. There was no maliciousness and advice was a plenty, but unfortunately once this thread overshadowed Drizzt's there became a bit of resentment. If it could stay on track as just a "Dog Advice" thread it would benefit us all, don't you agree?.
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Starting a thread like this one, right after you have been ridiculed/had your points put down/whatever you want to call it in another thread is considered "trollish", even if done with the best intentions. Just an FYI (for your information).
 
Ricky87 said:
My feeling is that the interest in Dog Training was much greater than my brother would have taught, and since people took qualm with him posting it in Drizzt's thread, he figured it would be best to start his own. His links had nothing to do with devices at all, and were just observations on general dog behavior. He's trying to become a certified trainer and saw it as an opportunity to help his fellow members. There was no maliciousness and advice was a plenty, but unfortunately once this thread overshadowed Drizzt's there became a bit of resentment. If it could stay on track as just a "Dog Advice" thread it would benefit us all, don't you agree?.
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I wouldn't personally say this thread overshadows the other one, Drizzt's has puppies!
 
mike17l said:
I am still waiting on an answer/reply to this:
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I did post that I think e-collars are acceptable for people living in highly trafficked areas, and rattlesnake zones would be the same thing. Zaps are far less harmful than cars and venom, but as far as desensitizing a dog to non-venomous snakes, I would get a toy that looks just like it and use "leave it" and reward techniques to keep the dog away. Our dog Ciana used to be too curious about our snakes whenever we held them, so we started doing "leave it" training, and now every time we take one out to hold she lies down reactively. Still, only you know if your environment poses more of a threat to your dog, and if an e-collar keeps your dog from being in mortal danger, than that's great. More power to you!.
 
mike17l said:
Starting a thread like this one, right after you have been ridiculed/had your points put down/whatever you want to call it in another thread is considered "trollish", even if done with the best intentions. Just an FYI (for your information).
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That's only if you want to perceive it as trollish, though. Most people haven't even read the other thread, or vice versa, and there was no connection made by my brother. It was purely done to start fresh on the Dog Training topic. Personally I don't see what the value is in trolling, and there is a lot of value in some of the issues discussed. Treuce?.
 
Ricky87 said:
I did post that I think e-collars are acceptable for people living in highly trafficked areas, and rattlesnake zones would be the same thing. Zaps are far less harmful than cars and venom, but as far as desensitizing a dog to non-venomous snakes, I would get a toy that looks just like it and use "leave it" and reward techniques to keep the dog away. Our dog Ciana used to be too curious about our snakes whenever we held them, so we started doing "leave it" training, and now every time we take one out to hold she lies down reactively. Still, only you know if your environment poses more of a threat to your dog, and if an e-collar keeps your dog from being in mortal danger, than that's great. More power to you!.
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Dogs are nose first. They're not going to see the snake, they're going to smell it way ahead of that. The toy thing... I don't buy it.

See, the thing is this. "Leave it" is great - but you're still counting a dog picking food/reward over investigating a venomous snake. I don't like those odds. Not one bit. Especially if I'm not around. I want that dog to think, Oh God, a snake, last time I got close it hurt like hell, I'm outta here! No commands, no rewards, sheer survival.

Self-preservation is the greatest motivator, and in life-or-death situations, it's the only one I trust.
 
Ricky87 said:
I did post that I think e-collars are acceptable for people living in highly trafficked areas, and rattlesnake zones would be the same thing. Zaps are far less harmful than cars and venom, but as far as desensitizing a dog to non-venomous snakes, I would get a toy that looks just like it and use "leave it" and reward techniques to keep the dog away. Our dog Ciana used to be too curious about our snakes whenever we held them, so we started doing "leave it" training, and now every time we take one out to hold she lies down reactively. Still, only you know if your environment poses more of a threat to your dog, and if an e-collar keeps your dog from being in mortal danger, than that's great. More power to you!.
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That's interesting. I trained Ellie to stop wanting to eat small pets with 'Leave it' too. We had a house rabbit, then degus that had front room playtime while she was young, and she would take herself away from temptation onto her bed and in fact turn her head away if the degus ran near her.
(Of course it was Ellie's potential threat to other pets at stake, not her life as it would be with a venemoid)
 
Ricky87 said:
He's trying to become a certified trainer and saw it as an opportunity to help his fellow members.
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I'm getting my degree in wildlife management...so I'm off to start a thread on how to maintain deer populations at levels high enough to provide adequate opportunity for hunters and people who enjoy watching deer. I know Brent will be interested in my thread! :nyah:
 
airenlow said:
I'm getting my degree in wildlife management...so I'm off to start a thread on how to maintain deer populations at levels high enough to provide adequate opportunity for hunters and people who enjoy watching deer. I know Brent will be interested in my thread! :nyah:
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It would be fun, my B.S. degree is actually in wildlife and range management, with an emphasis in wildlife. My minor was in bio. Hell KJ nearly has a PHd in wildlife. I am sure that it could be a fun one.
 
Ricky87 said:
My feeling is that the interest in Dog Training was much greater than my brother would have taught, and since people took qualm with him posting it in Drizzt's thread, he figured it would be best to start his own. His links had nothing to do with devices at all, and were just observations on general dog behavior. He's trying to become a certified trainer and saw it as an opportunity to help his fellow members. There was no maliciousness and advice was a plenty, but unfortunately once this thread overshadowed Drizzt's there became a bit of resentment. If it could stay on track as just a "Dog Advice" thread it would benefit us all, don't you agree?.
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If you want people to start thinking of your two personas as different people, stop answering for the other one. That would help me believe y'all aren't the same entity, at least.
 
tsst said:
??? The toy snake must have worked well, in less than two weeks.

http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87155
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He wanted to take that picture, and clearly didn't say "leave it". You can see the hesitation, and she is respecting his range fully. It was just a nice day, and fun outside for mammals and reptiles alike. There's no point in establishing a fear of snakes, because you can never control to what lengths she will go to extinguish that fear. Cute photo, though, huh?.:rolleyes:
 
diamondlil said:
I wouldn't personally say this thread overshadows the other one, Drizzt's has puppies!
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...and references to snippages!

airenlow said:
I'm getting my degree in wildlife management...so I'm off to start a thread on how to maintain deer populations at levels high enough to provide adequate opportunity for hunters and people who enjoy watching deer. I know Brent will be interested in my thread! :nyah:
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First, you'll have to come up with a defendable definition of "adeequate opportunity." Second, you'll have to decide if you are going for trophy, management, or quantity hunts...and realize that the populations of those 3 options is directly opposite of what deer watchers would want. How to resolve quantity (watchers) with low populations (trophy management)? Furthermore, how do you hunt in an area with high numbers of nonconsumptive users? Limiting it to archery can work until a school bus of kids sees a "pet" deer bleed and dragging internal organs with an arrow hanging out of it (i.e., Chicago).

Soooo, that could become a bigger argument than dog beating!
 
Ricky87 said:
NEVERRR!!!!.:uzi::madeuce:
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Sorry I forgot to add, like KJ said, if yall do not want to get "picked on" you really need to stop speaking for each other. If a question is directed to your brother, don't answer it. Is that difficult?
 
BTW, I don't live anywhere near venomous animals, so this training doesn't have the end-game that it does for Mike. That was just one suggestion, and I'm sure there are plenty more out there.
 
mike17l said:
Sorry I forgot to add, like KJ said, if yall do not want to get "picked on" you really need to stop speaking for each other. If a question is directed to your brother, don't answer it. Is that difficult?
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Sorry I tried to be humorous. I shouldn't expect so much from people!.
 
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