Won't Eat!! Please Help!

[medusacoils]

I have the fifteen baby milk snakes that hatched. Some of you may know about them. They have all had their first shed within the last three weeks. They are all looking good and each of them has quite the little, KILL YOU, attitude.

I am having a big problem though. I cannot get any of them to eat.

I have tried;

(pinkies)
Feeding live
F/T
making them real warm
Scenting with tuna juice
braining
soap washing (ivory)
tease feeding
putting them in a deli cup, over night, real dark, etc.

I have also tried earth worms and slugs uke01:

I have been trying to feed every 5 days. That way I give them a chance to settle between feedings. I don't want to stress them out, too much.

What's really killing me is that I am wasting a ton of pinkies on these guys and after losing almost all of my supply with my dying freezer, pickins are slim. I don't order pinks online, even though I have contemplated doing it recently. Fortunately, my rodents produce pretty consistently. It's just scary to not have that back up, that I was sitting on.

This is really driving me nuts. :crazy01:

Has any one else had any experience with getting Eastern Milk Snakes to start? It's either, they start eating on their own or I begin pureeing and feeding with a tube. uke01:

Please Help!

Wayne

 

[whippet]

I assume you have locked them into a small tupperware with the live, covered and left overnight?

 

[Nanci]

I think you need to lizard scent or actually feed tiny lizards. Pinks aren't their normal diet at all. You don't have the parents any more, right? Some people have had luck with pre-scenting the eggs of snakes that are hard to start, like greyband kingsnakes. They liquify pinks and put drops on the incubating eggs during the last few weeks of incubation. (Because I was going to say, maybe release this clutch and try again next year with pre-scented eggs, but I didn't think you had the females any more).

 

[medusacoils]

I assume you have locked them into a small tupperware with the live, covered and left overnight?

Yes, I locked them in a deli cup over night, last night. Woke up this morning to a bunch of angry snakes, sleeping with their pinkies. lol!

I think you need to lizard scent or actually feed tiny lizards. Pinks aren't their normal diet at all. You don't have the parents any more, right? Some people have had luck with pre-scenting the eggs of snakes that are hard to start, like greyband kingsnakes. They liquify pinks and put drops on the incubating eggs during the last few weeks of incubation. (Because I was going to say, maybe release this clutch and try again next year with pre-scented eggs, but I didn't think you had the females any more).

I released the moms after the clutches hatched. I was having similar issues with the moms not eating, but from what I have read, that's not uncommon. It seems that the adult w/c specimens, will choose one type of food and stick to it. There really isn't any changing their minds. I was worried about them dying so I released them.

I didn't scent the eggs. That was suggested after they hatched, or I would have tried it. The kicker is that the rodent room is the warmest room, (no direct A/C), so I incubated them in there. I have a lot of rodents and you would think that the daily bath in rodent scent would have done the trick!?!? Guess not!

Thanks

Wayne

Wayne

 

[mike17l]

Wayne,

I have never done this with eastern milks, but I have got many reluctant alterna and annulata eating.

#1 - Patience, wait them out, they do not want to die.
#2 - Live lizards, if you can find very small live lizards, they can work great, but do not work all the time.
#3 - Patience, did I say this one already. Actually, many breeders will brumate their hard to feed neonates, having them come out of brumation eating like champs. I have never tried this, but if I had the means, I would.
#4 - Other scents, I raise my own mice, but I also raise African Soft Furred rats as well as Deer Mice (Peromyscus sp.). The scent of other species of rodents (especially the Peromyscus) will sometimes trigger a feeding response. If you have enough of the other rodents, many times you can actually feed their pinks, instead of Mus musculus pinks.
#5 - Tails, what did he say? Tails? Yes, adult mouse tails. Cut the tails off of frozen adult mice. Cut the tail at a slight angle, close to the body of the tail. Also, cut the last 1.5" or so of the tail off. Hold the neonate between thumb and forefingers, gently "start" the tail. Push the end that was closest to the body of the mouse in first, and slowly push the rest down the hatch. If you put the "fat end of the tail" in first, the direction of the hair will help to prevent regurg. Also, once you have 90% or so of the tail down, they will usually take the rest.
#6 - Liquid Diets, I take a 10 ml syringe and I think it is a 14 ga needle. Over the needle I have a catheter tube (brand new one, no used ones, I do not know the gauge of the tube, but it is a pretty small one, I think). The tube it cut at about 10". Also, one brand new catheter tube, when cut will produce two "feeding tubes", one of them will have a blunt tip (the original tip of the tube) and the other should be cut on the bias, so that it will be pointed and able to squeeze into tight mouths easier. When I do it, I start, by giving about 2 ml (cc) of liquid and work my way up. Many feed scrambled eggs like this, but I mix my own feed. I take a small jar of veal or turkey baby food and add in 4 ml of Canine red cell (its a dog supplement, that can be found at many feed stores).
#7 - Patience, they will eat, sometimes they just need a little help figuring that out, and need some help getting nutrients as they take their time. I have had both alterna and annulata that took only one or two mouse tails or baby food meals before they ate on their own, and I have had some that took 10 or more, but they all eventually ate.
#8 - Keep trying, even while assist feeding, keep trying other methods, I would usually place a pink/scented pink/live/FT/lizard/ect in the deli cup over night, and if they did not eat it by the next day they would get an assist feeding. As for the assist feeding, I would try to give it to them about every 4 days.
#9 - Confinement, I have found that any and all methods have worked better for me if I kept(housed) them in a confined area. With all of the neonate alterna and annulata that I have worked with, I have had far better results with animals that were housed in deli cups, over those that were housed in shoe boxes. Once they were eating consistently, they were moved to shoe boxes.


If you get them eating FT lizards, you can also tie one a pink to the end of the lizard. I usually have some cnemidophorus(which most milks and kings love) in the freezer, and feed a foot with a pink tied to it. Kinda "uberscenting".

Good luck.

 

[Jenstar]

I cut up a frozen anole into two small pieces for the girls that were giving me issues. I wish I would have tried it sooner, I wasted so many pinkies. BTW I tried all of the methods you did. I even tried KFC. Good luck I hope you get your little ones to eat.

 

[Carinata]

Wayne. My mole kings ate for me great after I started them on scented brown snakes. PM sent

 

[medusacoils]

Wayne,

I have never done this with eastern milks, but I have got many reluctant alterna and annulata eating.

Edited For Space!

Good luck.

Thank you Mike! Rep Sent! I have printed this out and I am going to keep at it!

Thank You Mike!

Wayne. My mole kings ate for me great after I started them on scented brown snakes. PM sent

David, I really appreciate the offer and have saved your PM, just in case. I will give you an answer soon!


I can deal with a trouble feeder. It's that I am dealing with two clutches of non-feeders.

One of my corns, when I purchased him, was an "established" feeder. I only found out later, after he arrived, that wasn't the case and he had not eaten his first meal, before he was sent to me. I worked with that snake for weeks and thought I was going to lose him, until one day, it happened. He ate that is! It was actually my wife that figured it out. She held him in her hand and kept teasing him with the pinkie, until he got pissed enough and bit it, then ate it in her hand. He would only eat that way, his first few meals. Now, you have to mind your fingers on feeding days and he will eat in his regular feeding bin.

I know it can be turned around. I will keep working on it.

Thank you everyone!

Wayne

 

[Carinata]

Just PM or call me on my cell phone which I included in te PM and the snakeys are yours. They re just to difficult to feed. I help back a pair for my self but the others can be yours

 

[tricksterpup]

I agree with Mike on this. Take your time on this and take a deep breath.
try the lizard scenting and see how well that works. I had kings in the past do the same for me.. i had to rub a fan footed gecko to get those little monsters to eat.
I eventually got them converted.
But from what I have heard from professional herpers is this is one of the reasons why Easterns are not in the pet trade.

And Wayne, probably best to pick up an anole at your local petshop for about $5 to do your scenting.

 

[Carinata]

Well I have seen easterns for sale before but your friend is correct they are hard to get statred but look at Minlynns little monster

 

[tricksterpup]

Well I have seen easterns for sale before but your friend is correct they are hard to get statred but look at Minlynns little monster

David those easterns you have seen are probably wild caught and yes there are exception to the rules. But I was talking about hatchlings.

Also to state, my friend who made mention of that is not a hobbyist but a professional scientist who works with reptiles.

Email I have from my buddy Jeff.
Hopefully this can help you Wayne.

People don't often keep the more northern subspecies (like easterns) because they often don't eat well in captivity (yes, I realize there are some exceptions, so don't say, "this one eats just fine, that must be wrong." Overall, they don't feed well.). As much of a pain as most adults can be, the hatchlings are even worse. They are very small (often too small for even newborn rodents), and usually prefer lizards and snakes. They often have to be force fed pinky tails or legs and that is a huge pain. While some keepers may have what it takes to get the hatchlings going into regular feeding adults, most people looking to buy baby snakes don't want to deal with that.

 

[medusacoils]

I agree with Mike on this. Take your time on this and take a deep breath.
try the lizard scenting and see how well that works. I had kings in the past do the same for me.. i had to rub a fan footed gecko to get those little monsters to eat.
I eventually got them converted.
But from what I have heard from professional herpers is this is one of the reasons why Easterns are not in the pet trade.

And Wayne, probably best to pick up an anole at your local petshop for about $5 to do your scenting.

Thank You! I was just talking to Christine about that! My son has been wanting a Red Eye Tree Frog, for a pet. I wonder if I can get him to settle on a pet Anole, instead? oke:

Thanks!

Wayne

 

[MinLynn]

I am one of the EXTREMELY lucky ones to have a tiny hatchling that is a voracious eater of pinks. One of the reasons I originally did not want to keep him and go ahead and let Hallie have him,is because I had heard what terrible feeders they are as babies(my guy is only about 7" long). I actually think he eats only out of aggressiveness! Seriously,he's just looking for something to bite! As soon as you open his little tub he's striking out for something to latch onto and if it happens to be a pinky then he'll eat it. I also had to use the absolute tiniest pinkies available and even THAT left a huge food lump that scared me. I seriously was expecting a regurge. He didn't though and I lucked out.

 

[tricksterpup]

Thank You! I was just talking to Christine about that! My son has been wanting a Red Eye Tree Frog, for a pet. I wonder if I can get him to settle on a pet Anole, instead? oke:

Thanks!

Wayne

I thinks its best to have your anole frozen. Thaw it out and then just use it to scent that way.

 

[medusacoils]

I am one of the EXTREMELY lucky ones to have a tiny hatchling that is a voracious eater of pinks. One of the reasons I originally did not want to keep him and go ahead and let Hallie have him,is because I had heard what terrible feeders they are as babies(my guy is only about 7" long). I actually think he eats only out of aggressiveness! Seriously,he's just looking for something to bite! As soon as you open his little tub he's striking out for something to latch onto and if it happens to be a pinky then he'll eat it. I also had to use the absolute tiniest pinkies available and even THAT left a huge food lump that scared me. I seriously was expecting a regurge. He didn't though and I lucked out.

The one clutch I have, the babies are huge and could eat a day old pink. The second clutch I have, are tiny. I fortunately have pygmy mice, which have some really tiny babies and are about the right size for them. Problem with pygmies, is that they have very small litters and if conditions aren't perfect (light and temps), will not breed.
I do get a supply out of them, but the majority of those babies are fed to the frilled dragon.

I too, am seeing the, bite anything that is close to the tubs I keep them in. I actually, had one rip the skin off the head of a dead pink, as I was putting it in the tub. This happened yesterday. That one swallowed the skin, but wouldn't go near the pink. I was hoping that it would get the taste of the pinkie skin and eat it. Not that lucky, I guess!

Thank You!

Wayne

 

[medusacoils]

I thinks its best to have your anole frozen. Thaw it out and then just use it to scent that way.

Gotcha!!

Wayne

 

[Jenstar]

I hope scenting with the anole works. My snakes wouldn't touch pinkies plain or scented.
I finally ended up trying to give them each a section of the anole. That is what finally got them eating. Hopefully their second feeding will go smoothly.

 

[Nanci]

I too, am seeing the, bite anything that is close to the tubs I keep them in. I actually, had one rip the skin off the head of a dead pink, as I was putting it in the tub.

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for "slap feeding!" You can hold one, fairly restricted, make him angry enough to bite the pink, and then just freeze, and hopefully he will think about it and then just continue to swallow.

 

[MinLynn]

I was just going to say! If he ripped the skin off of it and ate it,then tick him off some more with the rest of the pink and see if he eats it. Even if he is just eating it out of anger,he's at least eating.