Boa keepers- be aware

[Kokopelli]

With Colubrids are there any common feeder rodents that should be avoided? My Taiwanese will eat anything that she can kill and stuff down, and I've never had an issue. Is there rodent to look out for? What about our Corn?

To the best of my knowledge, Colubrids don't suffer as much, though they may eventually- I know that there are mice with high deposits of fat as well.
Boas react very quickly and negatively to this sort of imbalance. Colubrids have their own "weaknesses" I suppose... like having a generally shorter longevity...

I have not heard of Colubrids being as sensitive to fat in their diet as Boas... but this sort of info doesn't just float around... one needs to dig into it. Colubrids are not snakes I really investigate a lot so I don't feel I can give you an absolute answer.
For that manner, I don't know enough about any snake to consider myself an authority... I am simply passing info on

 

[TrpnBils]

Holy cow...scary stuff. Are you (your friend, everybody else, etc) sure that it's due to fat content or could it just be a bad bunch of rats with some other kind of problem? I've luckily never had any problems like that with my boas, but I would kind of think that if this was a common issue that it would be more widely talked about among boa keepers (like IBD for example)

 

[Hallie]

Wow, thanks for the info Oren. That is really scary. I'll definitely keep my eyes open and do some more research on this.

I've heard from a friend (CaptBogart) that African Soft-Furred rats are also VERY bad to feed to boas as well.

You know Robbie, I hadn't heard that. Thanks! (I hadn't planned on feeding my ASFs to the boas, but now I'll be sure not to.)

 

[Kokopelli]

Holy cow...scary stuff. Are you (your friend, everybody else, etc) sure that it's due to fat content or could it just be a bad bunch of rats with some other kind of problem? I've luckily never had any problems like that with my boas, but I would kind of think that if this was a common issue that it would be more widely talked about among boa keepers (like IBD for example)

It is not common knowledge because people sometimes lose snakes without making the connection- a singular death won't necessarily lead you to investigating it well enough.
I am positive that fat deposits are problematic with Boas, the people at BasicallyBoas also have a section about this- there they only refer to the Zucker rats, which are indeed an extremity- the friend with whom I spoke on the other forum(Redtailboas.net) described to me what happened to his snakes and it fit the bill to the last detail- the chain of events was identical... he lost a whole lot of Boas because of this- so he didn't disregard it like many keepers might have if only one animal died... he looked into it, after checking it out with other big time Boa Keepers.

A lot of things about Boas are not as common knowledge as they are in corns... the reason being that Boas are not as "old" in the hobby as corns are, and a bit of that also has to do with the character of the keepers- I think that the people here care about facts and there's a high demand to learn and make things common knowledge...
With Boas... a lot of people simply learn as they go, with a lot of info remaining "passed down lore" of sorts.

 

[RyanR]

heres a quote off another breeders site..


""

What's wrong with them?.........

I just recently had a problem with some rats that caused me to lose a prized Boa of my collection. I tried to save a few bucks on my rats by switching suppliers and it cost me big time.

There is a rat that is a breed called a "Zucker". It is a rat with a higher fat % then your normal rat and referred to as being "obese". From what I have been told and found while researching it, its purpose of application is for insulin resistance, glucose intolerance, metabolic deficiency and genetic obesity. Bottom line this rat is loaded with FAT!

The problem is that Boas can not digest fat like a Python. You can give Pythons fatty rodents and pigs and they will do fine, give them to a Boa and you are going to have major digestive problems. The Boa will bloat up and get very gassy for starters. When it comes time for them to defecate you will find yourself cleaning up a very smelly, greasy sometimes gray colored stool if not diarrhea. Stephanie has compared it to Crisco shortening you use for cooking! This also ends up being smeared all over the cage and Boa most of the time for some reason. I believe there to be tons of Bacteria in it and it causes for a bacteria bloom inside and outside of the Boa. This is also the reason why people who get bad stools and diarrhea have a Boa go right into a shed cycle and shed out there color. Then WOW!....they now think they have a Calico Boa! LOL I am sure this has happened to a few people and they have not brought it up or figured out what actually went wrong.

The bottom line is these rats can serve a purpose for Pythons and Monitors, but for Boas I think they should be avoided at all costs! You have heard many of the stories on the forums about the boa that regurged or had diarrhea and then either died or shed out its color. Well I think this is the cause the majority of the time. You do not need to study every rodent you feed off; they really stick out like a sore thumb. I remember thawing them out and saying to myself, "Man that is a funny looking fat rat!" They are about as wide as they are long! LOL They also have a shorter snout then normal.
This is not something that builds up in the Boa over time, but something that happens the week you feed them the rats. They start to digest them and half way through have problems because of the amount of fat the rat contains. I only feed frozen thawed to my adults, so I am only referring to f/t jumbos. I do not think there is any worry in sm-mds, because the "Zuckers" seem to gain the high % of fat when they reach maturity. This is just a heads up about fat rats and the experience I had, and a few others I know of that have had problems in the past.

Remember, the Rodent Supplier has done nothing wrong as they simply supplied you with your rats. It is up to you to know what to feed to your Boas.

Hope you can learn from my loss.
""

 

[RobbiesCornField]

For those of you in the states that use Mice Direct, I checked with them, and they DO NOT carry Zucker rats! I didn't mention why I was asking, and just asked in general if they had them. They said they flat-out do not carry Zucker rats at all. So MiceDirect rats are safe to use!

 

[RyanR]

For those of you in the states that use Mice Direct, I checked with them, and they DO NOT carry Zucker rats! I didn't mention why I was asking, and just asked in general if they had them. They said they flat-out do not carry Zucker rats at all. So MiceDirect rats are safe to use!

just the visible difference between normal rats and zuckers is completely obvious, also any supplier who uses it, does label them and sell them under their own label. I don't think we have to worry once educated, it was/is more of a problem before people know they are bad, and see these huge jumbo rats for a good price, and figure its good adult boa food...

 

[RyanR]

http://www.basicallyboas.com/whats_new.html


theres the link, check the visual difference between the rats. uke01:

 

[Kokopelli]

It's a tad more complicated that that I'm afraid, though it is connected.
Apparently the Zucker rats were bred to be homozygous to a recessive trait which makes them store large quantities of fat- what I was surprised to learn however was that it is enough for the rat to be het for the trait for him to already have large stores of fat- thing is, the het rats look the same.
I spoke at length about this with a breeder who knows his stuff(Boa Amarali from Redtailboas.net- if anyone knows).

His own advice was to avoid feeding with rats that weren't pure white- as the Zucker rats/hets were usually a mix of white and other colors or solid black/brown/whatever.
He also advises against old retired rats, as they get older, instead of developing their bones/muscle tissue, they tend to harbor more fat.

Hope this helps

 

[RyanR]

It's a tad more complicated that that I'm afraid, though it is connected.
Apparently the Zucker rats were bred to be homozygous to a recessive trait which makes them store large quantities of fat- what I was surprised to learn however was that it is enough for the rat to be het for the trait for him to already have large stores of fat- thing is, the het rats look the same.
I spoke at length about this with a breeder who knows his stuff(Boa Amarali from Redtailboas.net- if anyone knows).

His own advice was to avoid feeding with rats that weren't pure white- as the Zucker rats/hets were usually a mix of white and other colors or solid black/brown/whatever.
He also advises against old retired rats, as they get older, instead of developing their bones/muscle tissue, they tend to harbor more fat.

Hope this helps

It does make alot of sense, and also it may not be related, by albino strains of rats seem to produce much better, larger litters more often... thank god all my breeding stock is albino.

 

[Kokopelli]

Everything I stated comes from his personal experience, Lars(from RedTailboa.net) lost around 30K$ worth of Boas because of this- and he spoke to some serious breeders in order to piece it all out... and frankly, it makes sense, Boas in the while don't usually feed on great amounts of fat on such a regular basis.