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Shedding problem. Please Help!

You might be able to tell if you take a GOOD macro photo of his head. But in the hundreds or thousands of sheds I've seen, I've only seen one snake with a retained spectacle, and that snake actually came to me with it after shedding. I tell you what, though, it was a HUGE hassle to deal with, so I recommend checking for them, always!

Since your snake had a "bad" shed, meaning a bunch of shreds instead of one whole piece, next time he is blue I would mist his viv _lightly_ every day or so, and cover the screen with plastic wrap, loosely, for the duration of his shed.
 
Oh damn...another piece that can stick
Might I draw some attention to the folowing
His "forehead" is kind of dullish in colour
Now he was Blue a couple of days ago and has not shed since.... So we are talking old shed in this case
Se the greyis glow on top of his skull

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lol, i guess we agree to disagree after my final point lol!

the skin is waterproof, and you're right it is permeable, ONLY if it's living, as if the skin was just permeable then water would just flood right in and the snake explode

but it is controlled by osmosis, passing of water through a semi-permeable surface,

in animals this only happens with living skin cells, and since the outer skin is dead, this would not occur at all thus being completely waterproof, and sealed until a break is made lol


bitsy said:
Have to say that I still disagree. The outer layer of scales isn't waterproof - it's permeable. The plastic analogy simply doesn't work. A more appropriate analogy would be leather. That breathes, allows moisture in and out and is supple, but it can dry out and crack. However, it's still water resistant.

There is a clear interaction between ambient humidity and the lubricating layer under the snake's old skin - at all points in the shedding process.

Guuess we just have to agree to disagree on this point!
Click to expand...
 
@ centric
The normal hide is waterproof alright... Not even controlled by osmosis... osmosis is cell based level not organism based... I sweat... I dont Osmose

Now with regards to the dead skin i have no idea.
I take water can get between the new skin and a remnant of old skin...as for a piece of dead skin being permeable.... Anyone who can strech a wee bit over and egg cup and drip on it?
 
since the outer skin is dead, this would not occur at all thus being completely waterproof, and sealed until a break is made lol
Click to expand...
I'm still interested by this idea (sorry everyone!).

How does low ambient humidity cause bad sheds, if it can't affect either the old ("dead") skin or the layer of fluid underneath it?
 
Again can i ask for what the head part is supposed to look like
As i did notice the top part of the head between the eyes having a dull colour
 
I'd say you should get the same dull effect as the rest of the body when coming up to a shed. The eyes will also cloud over. After this phase they go back to their normal colour for a few days, then they shed.
 
i didnt said the hide isnt waterproof?????????!!!!!!

i was talking about the skin being waterproof,

and sweat isn't pure water and that is why when you sweat it is not osmosis, however it still comes under diffusion, passing of particles through a semi-permeable membrane


and water can NOT get in between old and new skin, as the old skin has not been broke during blue stage

water can only get in between if the old skin has a break in it

that is why when a snake retains part of it's shed you can run him through a wet towel and the skin comes off easier,
because the water can get in BETWEEn the old skin and the new skin

as for low humidity, if the humidity is low PRIOR to shedding process (prior to blue stage) then it will be a bad shed (or not so good shed), because there is no water vapour being diffused while the old skin is still cell active (prior to blue stage)

that is why when you mist during blue stage or use a humid hide, nothing will happen, as the old skin is now dead, cannot perform cell activties, and therefore water vapour cannot pass through, as water only passes through live cells by osmosis, whilst still being water proofed

when a human puts their hand in water, what happens? hand goes wrinkling,
is this because skin is NOT waterproof? no!

it is because the live cells are performing cell activties - osmosis, passing of water through a semi-permeable membrane from high concentration (the sink of water) to low concentration (your skin cells on hand) until equlibrium is reached,

as a result skin cells burst and die
 
It just occurred to me that increasing water in the environment at any time should be able to help with a shed because the snake is also losing or gaining moisture through it's mouth.

Obviously at a time when the skin allows water through it is ideal for increasing water. On the other hand I am still not convinced that snakeshed is totally waterproof any more than leather is. I kind of want to go play with some old sheds we kept back when we were infatuated with every little thing our snake did. I am sometimes surprised we didn't keep his first poo.
 
gaining of water through mouth is rehydrating the living cells, in this case, the new skin, as the old skin will not be able to absorb this or process it,

and skin is waterproof, otherwise if not, each time snakey went in water bowl, he would just inflate with water (due to laws of pressure etc), similarly so would a humans hand in water,

but it doesn't, hence when you have a shower, apart from the water absorbed by osmosis, it stays on your skin until you dry it with a towel
 
as the old skin will not be able to absorb this or process it,
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I think osmosis has been explained correctly on your poll thread. Not sure you quite have the basics.

You can rehydrate a dead autumn leaf with hand moisturiser and make it supple again. It absorbs moisture even though the cells are dead. Osmosis is not limited to live cells.

Think I'll leave you with this one now. I've done all I can to explain.

Humidity - at any point in the shedding process - can assist a problem shed.
 
you are comparing animal cells to plant cells

both work in different ways

leaves have stomas which open and close, to release and keep water and moisture within the leaf,

that is why an autumn leaf absorbs moisture and water

you cannot make a comparison between animal skin cells and any form of plant cells because the cells activies are completely different, and so are the structures

animal cell - do not have chloroplasts
animal cell - do not have a cell wall (just a cell membrane)
animal cell - do not have stomas
animal cell - do not have plastids
animal cell - irregular shaped - plants are rectangular shaped

think i'll leave you witht his one now since i have explained you cannot cmpare cells from two different living kingdoms


bitsy said:
I think osmosis has been explained correctly on your poll thread. Not sure you quite have the basics.

You can rehydrate a dead autumn leaf with hand moisturiser and make it supple again. It absorbs moisture even though the cells are dead. Osmosis is not limited to live cells.

Think I'll leave you with this one now. I've done all I can to explain.

Humidity - at any point in the shedding process - can assist a problem shed.
Click to expand...
 
I want to say that I had a fresh shed this morning. I have tested the discussion and have taken pictures. I am resizing them and getting my daughter on the bus and I will post.
 
Ok I had a fresh shed from this morning. It was "slimy" so I waited till it was dry, for confirmed death. lol Like Bitsy I don't offer extra moisture unless they have a problem and the one problem I had was a baby but that is another story. I live in AZ so it can get kind of dry.

So this picture show the faucet I used because it is small enough to fit the whole skin over it so no water could get on the outside.

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This one shows the water in the shed right away.

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These next ones show the water seeping through the skin and pooling at the bottom and dripping off. Unfortunately, what I couldn't catch on camera was the fact that just a few seconds after filing the skin it felt wet to the touch.

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I was amazed on how quickly it started to seep through. I thought I would be able to walk down the hallway right away but I was wrong there is drip marks all the way down the hall. :eek1:

So I have to say with this evidence that I am leaning toward bitsy's hypothesis :)crazy02: I really just wanted to say hypothesis). So I would say if you have a problem shedder offer moisture as soon as you notice, cause even if they didnt get it the whole time during the shedding process a little is better than nothing.

I have to say it was fun doing a science experiment.
 

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sorry but i have to disgaree with this experiment, as you know corn sheds inside out,

so you effectively filling it INSIDE , but while the old skin is still attached to snakey water cannot get INSIDE unless a break

so if you did this test again, and since we are talking about water and moisture from outside to the innerside

then the test would need to be using the outside of the skin,
 
This reminds me of a test I did at work to see how waterproof paper isolation gowns were, compared to Goretex. They let water soak through pretty much just like your snake shed!
 
CentricMalteser said:
sorry but i have to disgaree with this experiment, as you know corn sheds inside out,

so you effectively filling it INSIDE , but while the old skin is still attached to snakey water cannot get INSIDE unless a break

so if you did this test again, and since we are talking about water and moisture from outside to the innerside

then the test would need to be using the outside of the skin,
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you are talking about because as you say a snake sheds from the inside out. So this skin was still inside out, I didn't turn it right side in. So it was testing how the skin would get from the ouside in.

Nancy, I always wondered about those. Cause I know that the water would seep through those so why wouldn't the persons sweat therefor contaminated the area. :shrugs: Cause you can get hot in those things.
 
So you put the water inside the shed, which is actually the outside, and it went through the outside to the inside.

The Goretex gowns are waterproof. I hate the paper gowns.
 
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