Are snakes happy living like this???

[rprimeau95]

I was just wondering are snakes happy in these Sterilite containers like this? how do you put a heating pad under plastic?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/jerryand3girlz/Enclosures/PICT3309.jpg

 

[rprimeau95]

 

[rprimeau95]

ok guess I can't just post the image it has to go as a link sorry

 

[AliCat37]

Yes... they are actually. From my experience, they like the small spaces better than the larger ones. My ball python was in a nice, large, well decorated and covered cage. He started to have poor sheds, though his humidity was always around 70%, he stopped eating, and overall seemed to be in deteriorating health. I finally broke down and got him into a rack, and it solved my problems overnight. He resumed eating within a week, and has yet to have had a bad shed. I can only assume that the living quarters before were "too large" despite having heavy cover, a 90 degree hot spot, and proper ambient temps/humidity. The corns don't really seem to care either way what they live in. May it be a box or a viv, they are just the same. I put the more flighty snakes in a rack fer sure though, less stress on them.
Over all, snakes like tight spaces. In the wild, they live in animal burrows, under rocks, etc. They only really go out when they need to hunt/breed etc. So in captivity, the snake is getting fed on a weekly basis, and if it can sit under the hide or in a small space 95% of the time, it will be just as happy, if not more so, living in a box.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

It really depends on the snake. I have two 100-flower rat snakes. One of them is in a planted vivarium with a couple of hides, and he's ALWAYS out and about, sheds in full, complete skins, eats like a champ, and is fun to take out. I tried doing a similar setup with my female, and NO, she DID NOT WANT it. She stopped eating, had incomplete sheds, and became incredibly flighty. About two days after I put her back in the rack, she ate, was calmer, and her next shed was complete.

Moral? It's not about what's "generally" good for every snake (after all, peanuts are good for humans, except the ones who are allergic to them), but what's good for your INDIVIDUAL snake.

 

[Pugsley]

Here it is.

 

[rprimeau95]

thanks everyone for your response and thanks pugsley fro posting the pic I clicked on the image and put in the link but it did not post like this. I can say my female Butter Motley like her hide and the Albino Reverse Okeetee was always out and about wandering around and I kept finding him on the side where the heat was not and then also stretched out up top of tank under rim where the top was so when you opened the top he would drop onto the bottom. He just started going under the hide this last week I have only had them 3 weeks and I'm trying to figure out the best way to house two snakes in my boys room I know two 20 gal tanks is not going to work and after reading tons of reasons not to house them together I need to figure out what to do. I just watched a video on youtbe http://youtu.be/vCQINZfrUL4 this was part one of part 2 here is part 2http://youtu.be/dbUM0Ar-fik she mentioned heat tape then I found this http://youtu.be/mrQRZmu7Vh8 is heat tape what is used in these rack systems for heat? since a heat mat will burn the plastic right? I figured I could make something stack able up to 4 containers maybe 6 straight up not side by side? for space... or 4 containers 2 side by side stacked this way if they we wanted to get a few more we could. My only thing is what container size to get? right now my butter motley Kora is about 18" and Boomer is almost 17" not sure how fast they grow.... and when their first shed is going to be or if they even had one already since they were born I asked the breeder how old they were he said give or take 3 months... he has 70,000 snakes so not sure how they keep track. I know in a couple of years my boys want to breed them. Since I homeschool this year I am going t make it a study for them.

 

[AliCat37]

is heat tape what is used in these rack systems for heat? since a heat mat will burn the plastic right?

No. No matter what you use to heat the tub you need a thermostat. A corn snake's safe maximum is 90 degrees, ideally you'd have the heat mat set to 85... far below the human body temperature, no where near hot enough to melt plastic.

Also, for an adult corn, a 32 quart tub is fine, though I like the 41 quarts myself.

 

[rprimeau95]

AliCat37 oh I have a thermostat and digital one I did not like the two that came with my snake starter kit. You said have the heat mat set to 85 how do you control the heat on a heat pad? do you know of one with a dial? I have been looking around cause I was worried in beginning the temp in our tank cause those round temp gauges were reading 79 on both the warm and the cool side. My husband gave e his digital one I put it under hid on top of substrate to read the temp and it reads 85-88. So at what age is considered an adult 1yr? right now they are only approx 3 mo's-4 months old? So should I start out smaller than 32quart tub? but make spacing large enough for the 32 quart for later? if so what is the next sized down 28?

 

[AliCat37]

The thermostat does control the temperature, I think you probably have a digital thermometer.
Age isn't really a determining factor for adult, it's more size than anything. If they are around 3 feet in length then I put them in a 41 quart tub. I would start out with a smaller tub just for security. You can probably keep them each in a 15 quart tub. I usually will keep my babies in 6 quart tubs, then move to the 15 quarts, then up to 41.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Thanks for sharing this information. I'm learning loads just perusing these forums. Again, thanks for sharing and asking these questions as well as they are very helpful.

 

[rprimeau95]

The thermostat does control the temperature, I think you probably have a digital thermometer.
Age isn't really a determining factor for adult, it's more size than anything. If they are around 3 feet in length then I put them in a 41 quart tub. I would start out with a smaller tub just for security. You can probably keep them each in a 15 quart tub. I usually will keep my babies in 6 quart tubs, then move to the 15 quarts, then up to 41.

Thanks AliCat37 this was very helpful I will look into the thermostat I was pretty sure what came with the snake starter kit said thermostat however it was by no means a device that controls temperature when I asked the pet store if there was such a device that controlled the temperature she told me know I asked two places I then asked if there was a heat mat that had a dial on it they said no. I then put the digital thermometer on bottom of glass to get reading how hot mat got and it read 99, then I put it on top of the substrate on top of hot spot reading was 85-88. Also Tuesday is our feeding day in the evening so I put them both in their feeder travel areas and Kora my butter motley who is the one who has eaten first always the last two times would not eat... the only thing I did different was put a newspaper print ad the smoother paper on top of the aspen substrate because the last two times I fed the the first and the second they pinkie mice were getting substrate stuck to it and they were ingesting some of it and I thought that cant be good. Wonder if she did not like the change Boomer did not care I tried moving her food around using tongs she would not eat so I left her in their from 11:30pm till 3:30am and she still did not eat so I put her back. Wonder when they are about to shed do they not eat sometimes? I saw a little piece of her scale flaking off on top of her head last few days?

 

[bitsy]

A Corn's safe maximum is 90, so you need to get that 99 degrees down, as they can burrow and reach it. I've never known a Corn starter kit which came with a thermostat as it bumps the price up and puts buyers off. Kinds ticks me off when it's so important to the snake's health.

You definitely just have a thermometer and you need to buy a separate thermostat that the heat mat plugs into.

A refusal to eat in one which has been eating, usually indicates stress of some sort, This could be due to cohabiting or the over-high temperature - possibly both. As hatchlings they're capable of starving themselves to death so it's best to get these aspects sorted.

They can be left with the pinkie overnight (in an escape-proof tub with air holes). Sometimes absolute dark and quiet will make them feel safer about eating - they'd be vulnerable to predators whilst swallowing and digesting.

They do sometimes refuse food just before they shed.

Flaking on top of the head isn't a good sign, as the skin should come off in one piece at the same time. Sounds like she may be too dry, which would follow from the high temps drying the air out. You can give her a humid hide to help keep the shedding skin moist (if it dries out, it sticks onto them and won't come off). That's just any small cheap plastic tub with a lid and a snake-sized hole cut in the side or lid. In the bottom, put something damp. Vermiculite or sphagnum moss are recommended, but kitchen towel will do the job as long as it's changed regularly and stays damp. Put the humid hide at the cool end of the tank and she'll use it if she needs to.

 

[AliCat37]

Glad that we are able to help you out. Bitsy already covered your other questions, but I want to address the thermostat thing.

Generally, you won't find them in a pet store because they don't seem to realize that heat mats/lights get too hot (IMO). You can find one by hydrofarm on amazon for pretty cheap.

As bitsy said, the temp on the floor matters, so even though it is appropriate on top of the substrate, the snakes tend to burrow and can get injured on the hot floor.

 

[rprimeau95]

exactly why I have been trying so hard to get a hold of the breeder to get answers cause I was very concerned about them going under substrate even for a little bit. On top it is 86 where they lay but I have seen them go under for just seconds when i put them back in then they come up under the hide. I was already a head of you bitsy on the moss thing but thanks for confirmation I went out earlier today and bought moss from pet shop and put it in one of those cherry tomato dishes that has a high dome and hole in top I was just not sure if it should be on cool side or the warm side. I just moved over to the cool side so thanks for pointing that out. She buried herself into the moss is that OK ? or should she be on top of it? I am pretty sure she is not stressed out I think it might be more of the temperature and it was just one scale flipped up, no dull eyes as of what I saw late last night anyway.

that is where I had it for about an hour but just moved it to the cool side it was not warm to touch anyway when I picked it up to move it.

how long will she stay in there? will she get cold?

I had found this one and was about to post is it the one you mention AliCat37?

Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats

http://www.toolking.com/hydrofarm-1433-1169-hydrofarm-electronic-heat-mat-temperatu?CAWELAID=1410597364&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CPDvrs_56rECFYdFMgodyDUAfQ

so am I clear by having one of these it will allow me to turn down the heat mat that gets up to 99 when I put my digital thermometer on top of glass to read how hot the mat is alone without substrate?

 

[bitsy]

She buried herself into the moss is that OK ? or should she be on top of it?

Nope, buried is good, The farther she is in the moist environment, the more help it will give her to shed.

I am pretty sure she is not stressed out I think it might be more of the temperature

Refusal to feed can be an expression of stress - they don't always show it the same way that furries do.

and it was just one scale flipped up, no dull eyes as of what I saw late last night anyway.

OK well keep an eye on her. If she doesn't shed in the next week, then take the humid hide out. They can get scale rot if they stay in a damp environment for too long (happened to one of mine once). It's a real juggling act sometimes!

that is where I had it for about an hour but just moved it to the cool side it was not warm to touch anyway when I picked it up to move it.

how long will she stay in there? will she get cold?

Most Corns will spend most of their time in the cool zone of the tank, only moving to the warm side for short periods when they need to. She'll be fine, but you do need to get that warm side at the right temperature, otherwise she might not go over there and without ability to thermoregulate, they can refuse to eat.

so am I clear by having one of these it will allow me to turn down the heat mat that gets up to 99 when I put my digital thermometer on top of glass to read how hot the mat is alone without substrate?

Yes. You put the probe for the thermostat under the substrate, directly on the floor above the heat mat. Then you can turn it down until your digital thermometer reads around 85 on the floor surface. It will feel just likewarm to you - I still have trouble understanding how cool a Corn needs the "warm" side, even after all these years!

 

[AliCat37]

And, yes, that's the one!

 

[jessicashallperish]

just putting my two cents in... i have a snake that i will never put in a tub, hes always climbing around and loves to be out and about... but then for example my new male candycane.. he is FLIGHTY ! he slaps himself around if hes not in an inclosed space looking for a tight spot to cram himself in, he was hiding in his water bowl, full of water.. so i put him in my rack/enclosure thing with a small box i hot glued together. he doesnt come out of that box. he has plenty of room but prefers to be jammed in the smallest space he can fit in. honestly, it depends on the snake. if they have a hide and heat they dont really seem to care.

 

[rprimeau95]

ok thanks I was worried today when i went in and could not see her and then I peeked through bottom hole saw no movement I panicked opened it up to see if she was alive lol ... she was her eyes today were cloudy... OK so I will just keep peeking in on her like that but you said if I don't see a shed in a week take moist hide away? how will I know what will I see inside the moss hide? will she just come out once she has shed? how does it come off if she does not move? I would flip out if something happens to her she is such a cool snake. I will get one of those devices this week thanks

 

[bitsy]

If her eyes are cloudy then she's definitely going to shed. It's safe to leave the humid hide in there until she's done. Just take it out afterwards.

Check on her every couple of days - they get pretty nervous at this stage as the scales over their eyes loosen and they can't see. Peace and quiet is the key. Just before she sheds, she'll stop being cloudy and go back to her normal colour. Then she'll shed and you can take the hide away.

Shedding is a natural process for them and with the humid hide, you've done the best you can for her with your current setup. It's now up to her.