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ASF

CrousesCorns

CrousesCorns

New member
Ok I have seen several ASF type threads on here. I will admit to knowing nothing about them. That is the reason for starting this thread. I have been raising mice now for quite a while and its the only food I use for my snakes (timber rattler, eastern milk, copperheads, black rat snakes, cal kings, and corns). **Yes I have a permit with NC Wildlife Resource Commission to keep the Timber. I work at and Educational Park and teach everyone about snakes and other wildlife.**

What I am wanting to know is what are the PROS and CONS of ASF's? Please all keepers of ASF's inform me about them since I know nothing. Thanks in advance.
 
pro's of ASF's...little larger than mice...they have no smell at all. They are not prone to cannibalism, they breed longer than mice, they have larger litters (16 is typical) and they are super easy to breed.
con's of ASF's...they jump far better than mice. They do tend to be nippy by comparison.
 
Also, they don't seem to fight as much as mice (although they do fight sometimes), they don't drink as much (so don't urinate as much), and the newborn pinks are almost twice as big as mouse newborns (that could be good or bad, depending on what you are feeding the pinks to).

There seems to be a big difference in aggressiveness between different bloodlines. I have a line that does not seem especially difficult. But I have heard of some that will jump at you, trying to bite. So try to get some from a fairly tame line.

I set mine up in big bins I used for rats. I give them a 2x4 frame (with several sections to simulate a maze or burrow) with flat cardboard on top so they can "burrow" like they do in the wild. And they can chew the cardboard and wood if they want to. They really do like to hide under the cardboard. When I lift it up, most of the moms and babies will be in one section, and most of the adults and weanlings in a different section.
 
The bins are 2' x 4'. I put in 2 males and 12 females. Surprisingly, I have seen more beat up females than males. I have only been keeping them for about 1 year, so I am still experimenting on what works best. I will be setting up new colonies soon (I have 5 bins), and may try fewer to see what works best. I feel that their cardboard covered "mazes" allow them more floor space, since they can also use the "roof" of their hide, as well.

I recently added a hamster wheel to one bin, but haven't seen them use it yet. I am waiting to add more wheels until I see how much they use this one - some people have said they go crazy on them.

Unfortunately, I don't keep careful production records. So it will just be an estimate based on observation as to what works best, rather than exact details.
 
I keep mine mainly in 10 gallon tanks. I use 1 male to 3-4 females. I keep wheels in all of them. I will say this when I added my new rodent rack I am keeping 5 trays on an experimental basis with 1 male and 3 females. These are the "mice" size trays. They have just begun to reproduce in these trays and seem to be working well.
My oldest colony is about 18 months old now and I am still getting 30-40 babies a month from the three females in this colony. They more than pay for what food they eat for sure.
On a side note I have one female carmel het for everything here that only eats live and only asf's. She refused to eat for months after hatching and finally in desperation I threw her a newborn live ASF which she gobbled right up. So at least I know that a baby corn can eat an ASF if I need to try live.
 
I put my first 2 trios of ASF into 2 mouse boxes (kitty litter tubs) and 1 trio is still breeding there today (I integrated the other trio into 1 of the bins a long time ago.). They seem pretty crowded in there, and I have to be more diligent about removing weanlings than I am in the larger bins. But it seems to work.

Aquariums work, too. But they are taller and hold in more heat, they are breakable, and heavy. So I would recommend new keepers to try something else - just make sure the material can't be chewed through!
 
Should I change the header?

Well it looks like I need to change the heading of this to: "How to setup ASF's and keep them".

I guess if anyone wants to share that or add more keep them coming. We ALL will learn from it.

:-offtopic I asked my local pet shop today about ASF's and he hasn't even heard of them and his suppliers don't offer them.

Some questions I should have asked:
How new are these?
Where can you get them?
What are their needs?
What should people know before getting these?
 
How new are these? I think they have been around a little while. But the first few times they were offered I think those prices scared a few people off.
Where can you get them? I got mine form a friend. It might take time, but I think you will see more and more of them.
What are their needs? I keep my similar to my rats and mice. They do seem to like veggies and seeds more. I feed them a rodent block and than supplement it with seeds from the feed store and also they love carrots, Crickets and most veggies.
What should people know before getting these? Some bite. I have two different lines in my colony. Some are easy to handle and other draw blood like there is no tommorow. But they are really easy to breed and seem to be great. I got rid of all my mice and stick with them. If I did not need rats for the blackheads. I would only keep them
 
I originally purchased my ASFs at the local reptile show, I currently have 60 colonies of 1.6 that I keep in Freedom Breeder Style tubs, I use Mazuri lab blocks for a stable diet. I've noticed that my colonies produce 12 to 18 babies at a time and I have litters pretty much all the time. They mature a little slower then mice. As stated before they can be a bit more nippy then mice and are far better jumpers. I started keeping them to feed stubborn Ball Pythons but my corns love them as well. I can't seem to keep up with them right now as is, over ran with babies at the momment. Hope this helps some.
 
I got rid of most of my regular rats to keep ASF, but still keep mice, and a FEW rats. I like the ASF the best. I don't have anything that eats BIG rats, and once they outgrow my balls, I have to sell them cheaply to friends who keep bigger snakes. The ASF NEVER get too big! One ASF won't make a complete meal for balls, takes 2 or 3, depending on python size. But balls have a slow metabolism, so they don't eat much per pound compared to corns. And the ASF are great for corns. I really like them a lot.

I will try to get Bill to photo the set up - I don't do photos myself (not much point when his are so nice, lol!)
 
I use Sun Seed Critter Cubes. Are they similar to Mazuri lab blocks you are talking about? I get them from my local pet shop for $53.00/50lb bag. I used to use Sun Seed Vita Vittles for mice/hamster/rats, but I didn't like all the seedy waste. The only good thing about that was when I cleaned the tanks and placed it outside the millet and other seeds turned into bird feed.
 
I use a hog Cube for all of my rodents. Mazurai rat food runs around 18 dollars for a 50 pound bag. I also supplement with a mixture of ten grain w/molasses and also un medicated chick starter. This seems to work best for me.
 
Pros = Almost odorless.
Less fighting than mice
less canabilism than mice
They are actually pretty cute.

Cons= They don't like to be held, they will jump and if you restrict them they will bite.
thats about the only con I can think of.

I feed mine a bagged hamster/gerbil food with rasins and millet added in and they are thriving. I keep them in aquaruims but it is getting to be a p.i.t.a to clean so I may soon build a rack for them. Hope this helps!!
 
I also use the Mazuri 6F rodent block. Mazuri tells me that the 6F is designed for optimum breeder nutrition especially for feeder animals. It runs about $22 for 50# bag. I usually get 6-8 at a time and it lasts my rat colony about 10-12 weeks.
 
I've been watching this thread and agree with most of the pros/cons but a couple of things I've not seen mentioned.

The males will become very aggressive towards anything that gets near the "den" when there are babies present.

Fighting does not occure very often but when it does its most often to the death.

This breed of rodent is VERY destructive. If you keep them in anything besides glass or metal you will regret it sooner or later. I'm sure there are those that have good luck keeping them in plastic and will probably want to start a battle over this. If you have good luck with keeping them in plastic good for you.


I raised these guys in a commercial setting and stopped breeding/selling them as of the first of the year.

In any case if you decide to work with them good luck to you and as always if I can be of any help feel free to ask me :)
 
Do you have pictures of your setups. I am housing my Grow ups In cement tubs and have the colonies in litter pans. I give them hunks of wood to gnaw on.
 
ASF pics

I keep all my 1.3 colonies in 10 gallon tanks with a medium wheel(which they get obsessed with. I mean skweaking all night long), a water bottle, feed hopper and sometimes a hide. They are all on pine shavings. I feed them Mazuri rodent blocks and give them crickets occasionally. They go NUTS over the crickets. The adults hunt them and even some of the babies chase them. The wheel seems to give them something to do other than chew. I even have plastic water bottles in a couple tanks and they aren't even touched.
Here is an old video of my ASF room. I'll be uploading a new one this weekend. Sorry about the darkness. And here are some pics.



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