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At what point to I switch to LIVE?

Calift

Calift

0.1 addict
My adult male pine snake puts my picky ball pythons to shame when it comes to eating. It's been 1 month since I've owned him and he has not eaten. He's in otherwise great condition, but shows no interest in food. I've tried white mice, brown mice, a new batch of mice, rats, sliced-open mice, and I'm now out of options.

Questions:

1) At what point do I try live? I'm thinking live ASFs. I really DON'T want to do this....it has to be my last choice!!

2) Is it normal/okay for a large snake like this to be off-food for awhile? He seems otherwise healthy and happy. Tank is all-set too.

Here are recent pictures that show his body, sorry the background is so awful looking!!
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Reptilepets_1461.JPG
 
Try these things first, if you haven't.

Washing a f/t mouse with dawn fish soap, then rinsing it thoroughly.
Putting the snake in a small feeding container with the food overnight.
Deny the snake water for a few days, then offer it a very hot soaking wet mouse.
Scenting the mouse with chicken broth.
Doing the "zombie mouse dance" Dangle the mouse with feeding tongs in front of the snake, but be careful to not scare the snake. Don't make the snake go away from the food, or push the food in it's face.
 
Thanks for the advice!!

Washing a f/t mouse with dawn fish soap, then rinsing it thoroughly. - WILL TRY :)
Putting the snake in a small feeding container with the food overnight. - done already
Deny the snake water for a few days, then offer it a very hot soaking wet mouse. - mice offered have been both wet and dry (both hot too)
Scenting the mouse with chicken broth. - NEW IDEA :)
Doing the "zombie mouse dance" Dangle the mouse with feeding tongs in front of the snake, but be careful to not scare the snake. Don't make the snake go away from the food, or push the food in it's face. - Done many times even though eckk... I don't like to play with this food :p
 
What did the previous owner feed him? He is looking a bit thin to me, but maybe that's the way pine snakes look, so if he is being that stubborn, you may have to go to live, but try a mouse first, then rat pink/small pup before going to ASF. Getting him eating may be top priority right now. He is new to you and you want to make sure he is 100% healthy. I spent $600 on an adult corn that never voluntarily ate for me. After a year of force feeding him, he died. And I didn't get much help from the previous owner..."that type is naturally thin", "it's time to brumate so when he comes out, he should eat for you", "it's breeding season, once that is over he will eat for you"....yadda, yadda, yadda.
 
I have an adult male pine that goes off feed for about 2 (even 3) months at a time each year. So it's fairly normal so long as you dont see much weight loss. Also I found that my guy refuses mice now no matter what, but will eat f/t rats every outing now. So rats is where it's at for these guys I tend to think. If you do try a live rat, have a wood pencil/stick or maybe something plastic handy and keep close watch in case your pine goes for it but doesn't land a perfect strike and leaves the rat able to bite while he is constricting. I always put that item where the rats mouth is so that the rat will bite on it rather than biting the snake. If it works and he takes a live meal, try f/t next time out and hopefully his appetite will have kicked back into gear! Thankfully my guys are all on f/t now so I don't have to deal with live anymore.
 
It's summer and he's a male... that actually makes sense... especially if there are female colubrids in the vicinity.
I don't think that you really have a cause for concern.... 4 months, maybe... but not a single month.
 
I agree with Markus and Oren- I wouldn't go crazy or get all worried if he hasn't eaten in a month. He looks very fit to me- not thin. Just not a chubby porker like a lot of the corns we see, including mine.

I would try something like a FT rat pink or fuzzy every couple weeks for a few times. He's an adult, and if he's healthy, he isn't going to starve if he doesn't eat for a few months.
 
I agree with everything that's been said. To add to it, if you do get to the point where you think you need to try live, you can try fresh killed first.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I will waiting a couple weeks before trying again.

I think pre-killed is the way to go for him, but I don't want to be the one to kill the rat! Geesh, I love rats as pets - no way could end one's life- eck! Anyway, I have to absolutely exhaust my options before any live rodents enter this house.
 
Calift said:
Thanks for all the responses. I will waiting a couple weeks before trying again.

I think pre-killed is the way to go for him, but I don't want to be the one to kill the rat! Geesh, I love rats as pets - no way could end one's life- eck! Anyway, I have to absolutely exhaust my options before any live rodents enter this house.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that part can be rough. I bred my own rats for a while, and I treated them as pets until the end. I built a CO2 chamber using a styrofoam cooler and a paintball CO2 cartridge, it was the easiest way for both me and them. Kind of a lot to do unless you're having to kill them on a regular basis though. If you start asking around locally, I'm sure you'll find someone that breeds rats for food that will take care of that for you.
 
Thanks Kaminoke! I will look for local breeders for that. I used to know one who breed mice/rats/asfs but she decided to end the business. Hmm will keep searching!

*My local pet store doesn't even sell mice/rats for this purpose! I dislike the idea that they are trying to exhort so much control yet continue to sell baby rabbits, GPs, etc when there are plenty to adopt in the shelter.
 
Do NOT feed ASFR live. They are wicked biters and the chances that you'll have an injured snake is high. I wouldn't even begin to worry about an adult male snake going off food for a month. My copperhead routinely goes off food for 2-3 months twice a year. My cornsnakes and green tree pythons go off food for around 3 months at a time as do the amazon males. It's a breeder thing. I think the snake looks great. Breeding males rarely lose a lot of weight even while they are constantly cruising. If you've been handling him since getting him, it might be he's a little stressed and hasn't had enough time to get used to his new home. Some snakes are pretty cranky about stuff like that. I had a friend suggest something with the green tree python babies that I'm going to try on my non feeding cornsnake babies. Egg yolk that has been heated in the microwave until almost cooked. Wash the pinky, mouse, whatever you're feeding and then dip in the egg yolk. He says it illicits a feeding response in the GTP neonates just about every time. We'll see how it works on colubrids. I'm going to try tonight. Your bullsnake may go for that since they do occasionally eat bird eggs when they can.
 
MegF. said:
Do NOT feed ASFR live. They are wicked biters and the chances that you'll have an injured snake is high. I wouldn't even begin to worry about an adult male snake going off food for a month. My copperhead routinely goes off food for 2-3 months twice a year. My cornsnakes and green tree pythons go off food for around 3 months at a time as do the amazon males. It's a breeder thing. I think the snake looks great. Breeding males rarely lose a lot of weight even while they are constantly cruising. If you've been handling him since getting him, it might be he's a little stressed and hasn't had enough time to get used to his new home. Some snakes are pretty cranky about stuff like that. I had a friend suggest something with the green tree python babies that I'm going to try on my non feeding cornsnake babies. Egg yolk that has been heated in the microwave until almost cooked. Wash the pinky, mouse, whatever you're feeding and then dip in the egg yolk. He says it illicits a feeding response in the GTP neonates just about every time. We'll see how it works on colubrids. I'm going to try tonight. Your bullsnake may go for that since they do occasionally eat bird eggs when they can.
Click to expand...

Best of luck tonight and let me know how the egg yolk wash works! I've never heard of that before ... but its a creative idea I'd be willing to try.

ASFs as nasty biters isn't that surprising. I can't see a regular rat doing the same, even a mice for that matter can do damage with a single bite.
 
I used chicken broth rats with my ball python last winter. It worked for about four months until he was ready to start eating normally again. My husband did not want him to go to live feedings and he did not want me to buy a living rat and kill it.

If you just got the snake he may be stressed from the move and all. It took Titus months to settle into our new home when we moved.
 
Egg yolk didn't work for the cornsnakes...haven't had an opportunity to try on the GTP's as they haven't hatched yet. got 3 more weeks and then wait on them to shed. I might try scenting with a lizard on mine or try chicken broth..maybe....There just is no strike response in these two. You can hold them and harass them with the pinky and they just try to crawl around. Hard to get them to eat when they won't strike. I still wouldn't worry about your boy. 3-4 months off food at breeding time is not unusual and he's in a new home as well. I would get a weight on him so you can monitor weight loss. I think my cornsnake lost a total of 50 grams during breeding season when he didn't eat for 3 months. Not much at all.
 
Still hasn't eaten and I may be looking into rehoming him if I nothing I try works! He is still in good shape and active, but I don't want his health to decline in my care! :(

I have a live asf that hasn't even perked his feeding response. I recently moved him from a tube to a dark tank in hopes that a change of scenery will help.

Any more advice would be great!

Are pines snakes usually fed something different than rats/mice??
 
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