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Bloodred Questions

Looks like dad's head pattern is a blend of #'s 4 through 6. I've seen these and more extreme in regular clutches, but #7 is still pretty far out there.

It still could be random variation or incubation stress, but might be worth a shot at raising him up to breed him. :)
 
thanks for the thoughts everyone. I had decided as soon as i saw #7 that I was gonig to keep him for a few years and see how he turns out. I will keep you guys updated as he grows and maybe sometime in the future I'll know what caused this.
 
I am finding this thread very interesting and have a few questions to add....

4 years ago I decided to help out a friend. He had to move because of his job and was going to be gone a year. He had a large number of cornsnakes and 1 ball python he had to rehome. I told him that I could take 3 of his snakes until he could move back. He brought me Blaze (a classic), Alf (another classic and the very first snake he ever hatched out) and Stripe (an amel motley stripe hatchling). He told me that I could keep or sell any offspring that were produced by Blaze and Alf in the time I had them.
The clutch consisted of 1 classic, 1 amel, 1 fire and 4 bloodreds. I ended up keepng the fire and the 2 bloodreds that ate well. (I gave the other bloods to a friend who got them eating eventually). Both are definately bloodreds and not just diffused. Sniper could be a twin to the bloodred in the picture Serpwidgets posted showing the difference. So in this case, were Blaze and Alf both het for bloodred...or diffused? Did I just luck out?

Also is there a visual difference between ....
A Pewter that is charcoal + bloodred vs a pewter that is charcoal + diffused
A Granite that is anery + bloodred vs anery + diffused
A hypo lav blood vs a hypo lav diffuse

Well you get the idea!!
 
starsevol said:
Also is there a visual difference between ....
A Pewter that is charcoal + bloodred vs a pewter that is charcoal + diffused
A Granite that is anery + bloodred vs anery + diffused
A hypo lav blood vs a hypo lav diffuse
Also what happens if you breed a diffused and a bloodred?
Click to expand...
If you switch "bloodred" for "reverse okeetee" and switch "diffused" with "amel" you get the same results. Some normals het amel will throw reverse okeetee offspring. But they're "normals het for amel that are capable of throwing reverse okeetees" as opposed to "normals het for reverse okeetee." ;)

I think the selection part of bloodreds is for an extreme-ness of pattern, and thin-ness of bordering. The deepness of the reds on the ground color also seems to be controlled by selection.

We did a few interesting crosses this year. They involved the male bloodred in the comparison pic, and his bloodred sister, as well as offspring of the diffused example in the comparison pic.

We crossed charcoal from diffused to a bloodred and got the type of mixing you'd expect between the two. They were an improvement over the diffused parent but not quite as good as the bloodred parent.

Here's a comparison of hypo pewter from bloodred X bloodred, versus hypo pewter from charcoal X charcoal (Where both charcoals are the product of the diffused female X a non-bloodred/diffused snake.)
From bloodred: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=252962&postcount=303 (Check out the second pic)
From diffused: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36225

Also of interest... when I breed the diffused female to make normals het diffusion, the offspring all look very much like normals. (Your trio for example.) This year I outcrossed the bloodred male to a motley female, and the offspring are almost completely borderless and it's very obvious they came from a bloodred, they look like what everyone expects from hets.

(Which brings up the question of how much of the "het-look" is really just selection versus the diffusion gene itself. :grin01: )
 
been away for a while so lemme get someone to clear something up for me.

diffused is the gene, bloodred is a specific linebred version of a diffused in the same way sunglows and RO's are still amels?
 
So Pirate55 said:
been away for a while so lemme get someone to clear something up for me.

diffused is the gene, bloodred is a specific linebred version of a diffused in the same way sunglows and RO's are still amels?
Click to expand...
Precisely. :)
 
ok with that being said, is the look fairly predictable between the two at a young age? or is it more of a luck of the draw and knowing what the parents look like. If so what are some of the key features that experienced people look for that i myself may overlook when choosing a hatchling. i'm looking into getting a bloodred or possibly a pair, preferably one that will end up nearly patternless as opposed to diffused. i know that there are those that do not choose to acknowledge the diffused/blood separation.
 
Serp my plan is to breed the trio until I get a trio of "interesting diffuse stuff" and then outcross with my bloodred line sometime down the road. I am severely limited as to how many animals I have space for, and these snakes are pets before anything else, but the future looks interesting from here :)


And SO Pirate, pictures help alot...and getting to know the breeders and who breeds what.

Right now I have a 8 eggs in my incubator that should be 50% bloodred and 50% amel bloodred with a 50% chance that 25% will be motley striped. I am not yet FedEx approved to ship and the eggs are only on day 26 but I thought I'd throw it out there. Plus these are bloodreds, not diffused. The male looks just like Serpwidgets comparison picture.
 
So Pirate55 said:
ok with that being said, is the look fairly predictable between the two at a young age? or is it more of a luck of the draw and knowing what the parents look like. If so what are some of the key features that experienced people look for that i myself may overlook when choosing a hatchling. i'm looking into getting a bloodred or possibly a pair, preferably one that will end up nearly patternless as opposed to diffused. i know that there are those that do not choose to acknowledge the diffused/blood separation.
Click to expand...
I think this is a good comparison: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31933&stc=1

IMO the sides are a big indicator. If you see clearly delineated side blotches, I don't think it will turn out nearly as well as the ones with just a red smear on the sides. The other thing to look for is the amount of black. If your ideal no visible pattern, then the ones that also have no black bordering are the best bet.

Obviously some will surprise you and turn out better or worse than was indicated. ;)

Something else you can do is check out breeders that have price ranges on their bloodreds. The ones at the highest end of the range are what you want. ;)
 
Back on pcar's 'issue' . . .

Serp, would you think maybe there's some Sunkissed influence with the patterning he's seeing? That was my first reaction upon seeing the pics of the 'bald' one. :shrugs: Seeing as how there's Okeetee in the background is that a better possibility? (Might also indicated why the Mother was supposed to be het ghost but turned out not . . .wrong hypo?!).

D80
 
serp & stars, thanks. i just needed an idea or two about what to clue in on for when i attend the next expo.

sorry to track off topic, carry on.
 
Drizzt80 said:
Back on pcar's 'issue' . . .

Serp, would you think maybe there's some Sunkissed influence with the patterning he's seeing? That was my first reaction upon seeing the pics of the 'bald' one. :shrugs: Seeing as how there's Okeetee in the background is that a better possibility? (Might also indicated why the Mother was supposed to be het ghost but turned out not . . .wrong hypo?!).

D80
Click to expand...

That's an interesting idea D80. I will contact Don and see if that might be a possibility.
 
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